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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
Horn on Team betting
I wish A. B. would have told me he was betting DB’s in training camp... I would have been more serious about my routes. http://www.neworleansprofootball.com...interview.html |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
Now that is an attitude Ilike -- but I bet he would never give money back if he sucked one week
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
Yeah have to agree with you. Deuce, Horn and Howard up for contracts...
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
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Read a little more...He says he wants to get paid top 5 money AND produce like a top 5 reciever...what\'s not fair about that? He\'s still the best player we have... Let me quote a guy who knows a thing or two about winning... \'\'To be the Man, You got to beat the Man...And I am the man\'\' That applies to Joe...He is the man..noone has beat him out yet..so..He\'s still the man |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
He is 34. Get it, 34. So cause he is the top receiver ON OUR TEAM he should get paid like a top 5 receiver IN THE NFL? Ok. Glad you don\'t run the front office. We would be Tennessee in two years giving out contracts like that. 34. Not many receivers producing big numbers beyond that age.
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
i have no doubt he wants to produce as a top 5 but to do so this year or beyond he will have to buck a trainload of history. fact are facts when it comes to wideouts and age. even rice, perhaps the greatest of all time, had a distinct downturn in his numbers when crossing 35. rod smith wanted to stay in denver. he restructured, helping the team to do that even tho he still had perhaps his best season in the last three. think it was belicheck enjoyed giving troy brown his walking papers? (david patten gone too and givens a rfa). nope, but the cap makes the best run business aspect of a team as important as the on-field performance.
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
I still don\'t get it. If a guy is top 5, he\'s top 5. I don\'t care if he\'s 10 or 100. Results are results. All Joe Horn has done for the Saints is go to 4 Pro Bowls in 5 years, set a number of franchise records, he\'s coming off his BEST YEAR (as a 34 year old - oh my God!!!!!), and the guy says that he wants to keep producing.
You guys are screaming about trading Howard and Horn for draft picks?!?!?!?! Yeah - give me another Sully and Henderson! Horn and Howard - whew, bums. I mean, by this logic, why aren\'t we trading Brooks? Oh, he\'s young. Young and not top 5 but paid top 5 = OK. Old and top five and paid less than top 5 = not OK. You guys been hanging out with Billy? :) |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
I know I should know better...
But..I read and listened to the same thing last year...and Horn showed me again that he is still \'\'The Man\'\'... I believe in the guy...as stupid and sentimental as that may sound...I just do... I wouldn\'t sign him longer than a 2 year deal...but...for those two years...he would be getting top 5 money...he\'s earned it... |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
Who said he hasn\'t earned it? The question is whether he will keep producing it. See the difference? And I know for sure you ain\'t talking to me when it comes to trading Brooks. I have been screaming that for a year. Bad example to use on me.
In your mind Who, is it better to trade Howard or not be able to give new contracts to Deuce, MM, Bentley, and Horn? Cause that is the trade off for keeping Howard in case you weren\'t aware. In your mind, is it better to pay Horn top 5 money going forward when even the best receivers EVER started to decline at this age, or sign him to an incentive laden contract so if he does produce top 5 numbers going forward he earns it? He said himself he doesn;t wanna get paid if he doesn\'t produce. If he doesn\'t want that, then doesn\'t it stand to reason he has to be traded? If we start paying players for WHAT THEY DID, we will be Tenn and San Fran, but you seem to have no problem with that. [Edited on 10/3/2005 by saintswhodi] |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
two years sure. but he is talking four. think you\'ll be happy doling out top 5 pay to him at age 38?
trade brooks? whodi is on brooks sabbatical so i\'ll say it- heck yeah. no way he is worth $6mil a yr. give me mike mcmahon for $2mil and let alex smith, andrew walter, or someone train for a season or two and i have a few million more to remodel the defense. give me another will smith and courtney watson with $14million to spend! bye bye lawyer milloy, antowain smith, tebucky jones, joe andruzzi, troy brown, roman phifer, etc.- you cost too much for us. we want a 4th championship in 5 years. |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
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As for Horn\'s contract, you said it (as did I a long time ago). You make his contract incentive heavy... almost overloaded. If the guy produces like a top 5, he gets paid like one. If not, he doesn\'t. Besides, I\'ll bet you any amount of money that you want that the guy\'s contract will be backloaded. They ALWAYS are. He won\'t end up MAKING top 5 money even if his contract is WORTH top 5. On more thing. There are 24 starting positions on a football team including kickers and punters. That means there are 120 players who have \"top 5\" contracts. That means there should be about 3.5 players paid \"top 5\" money per team. Currently, the Saints have 1 - Howard, who you want to trade. Now, you admit that no player has EARNED top 5 money more than Joe Horn. So who are your top 5 guys moving forward? McKenzie? He\'s not top 5. Deuce? Maybe, if the guy has a good year this year and proves that he\'s not a really talented average RB. Bentley? Bentley is a top 5 center? [Edited on 10/3/2005 by WhoDat] |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
When did these other players say they wanted top 5 money? I never heard that. Joe Horn did though. Flat out, he wants top 5 money. Of the players mentioned, Howard is pretty much guaranteed top 5 money. We can\'t afford that and yes his 8 mil is keeping us and will keep us from getting it done. MM is not gonna get top 5 money, and I have yet to hear him ask for ti from us. Nor Deuce, nor LeCharles. It is no secret they are working on an extension for LeCharles right now. So I really don\'t understand how it can be implied all these guys want top 5 money, when the only one who has said it is Horn.
We agree on Horn\'s contract being incentive heavy, but do you think Horn will go for that? He is looking for a big payday, I don\'t think we should give it to him. If he DOES accept it, fine. If not, he needs to realize he is almost 35, play out the last year, and we will see where things are then. If we trade Howard, chances are we get a high second or a low first. I think that is pretty much his caliber. I am with LKelley on this one. To quote him: Quote:
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
I agree..34 is old for Football...
But.. I can\'t ingore that fact that Horn is just flat out..our best player... 4 years would , without a doubt...seal him up for the remainder of his carreer, which is big for alot of us...cuz we want him to retire a Saint... An incentive based contract is the only viable choice...Do I think he will take it?...Yes...His attitude is that of a winner...and a competetor...and he , in his mind, is a top 5 guy...and hethinks he can produce top 5... Sign him up....and watch him go back to the Pro Bowl next year....maybe even the next 2 years....He\'s that good... |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
I don\'t disagree shadow, I really don\'t. If he accepts an incentive heavy contract, beautiful. Lock him up. But I don\'t think he will. We will see.
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
Let\'s also not forget that Howard didn\'t ask for top 5 money either. He may be willing to play for much less. We don\'t know. It\'s the Saints who have chosen to franchise him rather than work out a contract for the second year in a row.
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
Two words..
Darrell Green Some rare players play beyond thier \'\'prime\'\' I truley belive Horn is one of those guys... |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
something that we haven\'t talked about is Adrian mcpearson and the saints betting in their locker room--is that a place you want to put adrian mcPearson-he of the betting on his own games?
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
Just for you Who.
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
I had actualy posted that same story a few months ago...
I wish there were some way that Howard and the team would agree to keep him on, and give us that deadly rotation... |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
Yeah I found it in your post where you were continuing an argument we had and you were telling me Howard wouldn\'t be franchised. I didn\'t wanna call you out on it again though so I only posted the article. ;)
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
True...I was wrong...I just had so little hope of the team actually doing anything productive at all at that point..I mean..They kept Haslett..and Venturi...
It was a very disheartening time for me... Go ahead...rub my nose like a dog ...I deserve it...haha |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
Like I said, I was trying to avoid that by not posting the thread but just the article. It was like 30 pages back too. lol
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
Where ya at WhoDat? Don\'t be this guy :sulkoff: . Tell me now why we shouldn\'t trade Darren. I dug long and hard for that article cause I remembered it.
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
I\'ve made my statements about Howard over and over again. I didn\'t say don\'t trade Howard. I said that the only way I trade Howard is for an absolute stud, b/c that\'s what he is. But if you do that, then you end up having to pay that guy the same, so you\'re not saving. Howard for say Woodson, as I saw recently suggested, would be fine with me - but then you pay Woodson a ton of money.
If your opinion is that we\'re going to lose Howard so it\'s better to get something rather than nothing, I won\'t argue that point. But given the Saints history with draft picks, I think giving him up for a pick is very questionable. I think you actually agree with that take, do you not? |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
If the pick is a first rounder, no, I have no problem with that. As Euphoria rightly set me on the right track in saying, this draft is DEEP, at several defensive positions, especially LB. I would like to trade Howard for a stud in return, that is A BETTER OPTION than a pick for me, but not for a CB(definitely not woodson). There are better options out there IMO.
I agree the front office has botched the draft, but as far as first rounders go, outside of the Sully fiasco we have done okay. Getting a SECOND rounder for Howard scares the hell out of me cause we seem to have no idea what is going on at that point. Hell we do better in the 5th(Karney) and 7th(Colby) than the 2nd. But unfortunately I have fallen into the trap of giving this team the benefit of the doubt that they have decided enough with the \"project\" and \"upside\" labels of drafted players and will draft guys who can come in here and make a difference. And being that they are draft picks, they will have lower salaries. We could have 3 guys contributing for the price of Howard\'s salary. That is a better option to me. |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
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[Edited on 11/3/2005 by saintswhodi] |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
This is about what I heard two years ago when Horn got his contract extension:
Why me Lord? Tell that to the Pats who cut Lawyer Milloy and still won a Superbowl. Tell that to the Eagles who let Hugh Dougles ride 2 years ago after one of his best years as a pass rusher. Tell that to the 49ers who had Jerry Rice. Tell that to the Steelers who let star LBs leave pretty much every year. Stats are pretty, but how is Joe\'s stats from LAST YEAR gonna help us when we are paying him big money TWO YEARS FROM NOW AT AGE 34????????? Notice that that ONLY thing that changed was his age. Not his play. But I guess that\'s irrelevant. How many years in a row does this guy have to keep going to the Pro Bowl before you guys consider giving him the benefit of the doubt until he proves he can\'t play. Why does everyone assume automatically that the guy is going to fade when he\'s shown time and again that he will not. Yes, I know it is inevitable, but Art Monk played forever, didn\'t he? Jerry Rice? Sure, these are all-time greats. Then again, Horn has played pretty great over the last 5 years. If you had said the same thing about Jerry Rice at 33 or 34, sure you wouldn\'t have paid the guy for the last two years. Then again, you would have missed nearly the last DECADE of Jerry Rice. Was he worth it? OK, sure, he\'s the exception. But Horn hasn\'t showed signs of slowing, has he? |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
So the comparison you have to say he can do it is the greatest receiver EVER? Who, come on man. I know you love Joe, but he is gonna be Jerry Rice now? We have to hear about Horn\'s injuries every game currently, Jerry Rice was only hurt once as far as I can remember. I know Joe plays through it, but do you heal faster or slower when you get older? And I thought we already agreed on an incentive laden contract. Don\'t tell me you have changed your mind. :brood:
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
No, I haven\'t changed my mind. But just once, I want to hear you say - you know what, screw injuries, screw age. Horn has proven he can still do it time and again.
That\'s OK. You\'ll be just like Billy, who was screaming for a trade of Horn last year and the season before. In a year or two, after two more Pro Bowls, you\'ll still be wanting to cut or trade the guy.... but you\'ll have to admit that the guy proved you wrong.... again. :) |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
You guys will have to forgive WhoDat. Sometimes he just can\'t see the big picture. Actually, that happens most of the time.
WhoDat insists that Joe Horn is a top 5-receiver and should be paid like one. Come on guys, Joe is good but he\'s no top 5 receiver and never has been. I can think of 8 or 9 receivers in the NFL that I would trade Joe straight-up for. Top 5? Not today. Not tomorrow. And it ain\'t looking good that a 34 year old receiver will ever be a top 5 receiver. Now, WhoDat wants to pay a 34 year old Horn top 5 money?! PLEASE. Heck, WhoDat still thinks Sammy Knight is a top 5 saftey. [Edited on 11/3/2005 by GumboBC] |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
I never said I wanted to get rid of him UNLESS he demands a top 5 contract, WHICH HE HAS. No way in hell should the Saints give him that. Noone else in the league would. No matter how sentimental you are towards Joe, football is a business first and foremost. Hell Rickey Jackson didn\'t get more to stay, nor Sam Mills, nor Swilling. If THOSE Saints greats had to go elsewhere to get paid, why should I care if Joe has to?
Mid thirties is a slow down and regress age for 99% of the players in the NFL. Joe is there. I doubt next year or the year after at 37 he will be putting up numbers like this past year. No sense in dragging the rest of the team down to prove a point about Joe. |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
Oh lord. Here we go again.
Hey Billy - Joe Horn isn\'t top five? 8th or 9th? Never has been top five? He was SECOND in the NFL in 2004. His stats rank him FIFTH over the last FIVE seasons. Under what crazy-a$$ system does that not qualify as top 5? Oh, right I remember now. The same system that does rank AB in the top 5. LMAO. Carry on. Whoodi - you\'re mistaken about two things. 1) In two years Joe Horn will be 35 (he was born 1/16/72, which by my math makes him 33). 2) In two years Joe Horn will be very productive - my guess - top 5 or 10 in the league and better than any other Saints WR present, or past. :) |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
Okay, I thought he was 34 this year. My bad. Doesn\'t change my mind about him slowing down though. Also doesn;t change my mind that we should not pay him top 5 money. He earned it up til now, but I would bet he won\'t going forward. Hell he is making 4.7 mil for this upcoming season. How many receivers make more than that? That\'s more than Heinz Ward, and I would damn sure trade Joe for him right here and now. Let Joe make his big money this year, and we will see where we are at the end of next season. If not, he can walk, and we can sign a free agent or draft someone and pay them less. Or he can sign that incentive based contract, and they can base it on this past year\'s stats. He stays at that level, he gets paid like it. Easy enough.
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Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
Hey, WhoDat, you keep holding on to Joe Horn\'s stats and keep trying to prop him up as a top 5 receiver. I like when you make statements like that. Folks can see how you really think. :o
How \'bout we take a vote, WhoDat?? WHO HERE THINKS WE SHOULD PAY JOE HORN TOP 5 MONEY? ANYBODY? |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
I\'m wondering what happened to getting slightly better than average players for slightly better than average salaries? Wasn\'t that the pro Delhomme / anti Brooks argument? Now it\'s ok for us to break the bank on a (given) quality WR who\'s nearing the end of a very good (but not fantastic) career?
hmmmm? |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
Hey Billy,
Can you see the difference between saying A) Joe Horn is a top 5 WR AND B) The Saints SHOULD pay Horn top 5 money? I absolutely said A. I didn\'t say B. I said that the Saints should give Horn a well paying contract, b/c he has earned it and will continue to be worth it in my mind, and make it incentive laden so that if he performs at top 5 levels, LIKE HE HAS THE LAST 5 YEARS, then he will get paid like a top 5 WR. Get it yet? DO I need to go over it again? Didn\'t you say Joe Horn was done two years ago? Here\'s a question Billy: If Joe Horn puts up top 5 numbers, why isn\'t he a top 5 WR in your opinion? Talent? |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
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WhoDat is the biggest flip-flopper there is. He\'ll come up with something, though. I think I\'ll go back and pull up some of WhoDat\'s old posts to prove how much he flip-flops. WhoDat always like proof and I aim to give it to him... :o |
Horn Interview part 2...really good read...
How many other players on our team can say they\'ve been to the pro-bowl 4 out of the past 5 years?
If I had time, which I don\'t because I\'m at work, I\'d like to see a comparison of every statistical category for receivers, over the past 5 years and see where Joe ranks. |
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