WillSaints81

Falcons losing to eagles was huge. So if falcons lose two more before Carolina week 16 and they lose to them and us they will go 8-8. Carolina lost a game we needed them to lose and should lose at Seattle but the falcons losing to eagles could help them against Washington(the pair psychology). And if Carolina loses that that's great for us. But we would need them to lose to either TB, SD or Oakland if we cannot win Thursday.

That's what we need, just win Thursday. Or hope for help from Oakland, SD, or TB.

Also, if we win Thursday, I would accept getting swept by the bucs so we can beat Atlanta.

We have 5 losses and are going to lose to Arizona(if not them then LA). We don't win Thursday then we are losing one other division game. Our record is 10-6 or 8-8. Likely 8-8.

SaintFanInATLHELL

Absolutely.
Currently irrelevant. Currently in the NFC South, the Saints control their destiny in the division. Presuming the Saints go 4-0 in their remaining division games, and they finish with tied or better record than their division opponents, then nothing else matters. Currently the Saints and Atlanta each have 1 division loss, and they play each other January 1. Whichever team wins that game will have the best division record presuming each wins all other division games down the stretch.

Again irrelevant at this point. If the Saints sweep Carolina Thursday the Saints hold an effective 3 game lead over Carolina. No need to discuss.

I'm being blunt today as I stated in my post in one of the other threads. If the Saints cannot win this must win game Thursday, then I believe it's a waste of time discussing other playoff scenarios.

Playoff caliber teams take care of the games they must win. Thursday is a must win. Losing makes it clear the Saints are not playoff caliber.

Period. End of discussion.

Nope. Losing Thursday makes all reasonable playoff hopes evaporate.
So let's not discuss it.
Why would you accept losses in critical division games under any circumstance? Especially when those two games coupled with a win Thursday puts the Saints in their best position to win the division? Color me confused.

What is the basis for this observation?

Losing a division game is unacceptable. At this point losing a division game is essentially giving up on the season.

The Saints just need to take care of Carolina Thursday. All else is simply speculation.

SFIAH

Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO

Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

K Major

4 turnovers are unacceptable. You rarely win at this level with those type stats.

Saint in Aus

True, but we were in a position to win. All we needed to do was block out their D-line and Lutz kicks the XP. That's more unacceptable IMO.

SaintFanInATLHELL

Agreed. However, 3 of those turnovers are directly attributable to the rookie. As good as he has looked and as reliable he has been, Michael Thomas is in fact still a rookie.

So while today was a bit out of control, hopefully he'll learn and not make the same mistakes moving forward.

SFIAH

darstep

True - not over yet. But we did not help ourselves this day.
Found a way to not get the win. The little things, again.
Best day this year for Jordan, worst day for Thomas.
Thomas will better learn ball protection and proximity awareness.
Just didn't finish...just didn't close the deal.
Even with 4 turnovers we only had to finish what was started.
58 minutes and 32 seconds wasn't enough. We needed another 3 seconds worth of football.
5-and-4 would have been just what ATL needed to start coming unglued.

WillSaints81

SFIAH

I am basing this on the fact that we have been stuck in a 3-3 division connundrum three of the last four years. I don't know how to really explain it but numbers are numbers. Going back to when SP and Brees first came here

4-2
3-3(swept Atlanta, split Carolina)
2-4(swept by Carolina)
4-2(swept Atlanta)
4-2(swept Carolina)
5-1(split TB)
3-3(swept TB, swept by Carolina)
5-1(split Carolina)
3-3(swept TB, swept by Atlanta)
3-3(swept Atlanta, swept by Carolina)

Further, Atlanta has a odd-only division pattern that has been 1-5, 5-1, 1-5 last three years. If that alone continues, they are 5-1(scary). Before that they were 3-3 two straight years.

Now Carolina's been on a steady order since Cam
2-4(swept TB and swept by NO/Atlanta)
3-3(swept us and swept by TB)
5-1(jumped over 4-2, split with us)
4-2(swept TB)
5-1(split Atlanta)
They are already 0-3 in division. They could be looking at any combination of 3-3, 2-4, or 1-5 since they are going in a forward order with those three being the floor.

TB(I can't count just Winston)
3-3(swept Carolina, swept by us, split Atlanta)
1-5(split with Atlanta)
0-6
3-3(swept Atlanta, swept by Carolina, split with us)

As of right now they have two division wins and likely will only get one more which would be one against us or against Carolina. They could end up not getting anymore as 2-4 is next in the order for them.

So you have this possibility
Atlanta 5-1
NO 3-3
Car 2-4/TB 3-3
TB 2-4/Car 1-5
under this scenario Atlanta going 5-1 puts us in the position of basically sweeping TB as Carolina will need to beat us and TB. Further if Carolina did not beat us, they would simply not even care against TB, resulting in 0-6 and that would put TB at 4-2 if we can't go 4-2 and that's not a likely outcome. Carolina would not care even if they beat us as losing to Atlanta still puts them out of the playoffs before TB. And then maybe Carolina is 1-5 and we end up sweeping TB.

Atlanta 3-3
NO 3-3
Car 3-3
TB 3-3

Everybody here is 3-3. Atlanta splits with all 3, we split with all 3, and so on. On the flip side, this pretty much ensures we don't sweep Carolina. And we cannot do anything other than splitting with all 3. It therefore forces everyone to split with everyone.

NO 5-1
Atl 3-3
Car 2-4/TB 3-3
TB 2-4/Car 1-5

Under this scenario we are 5-1 and pretty much run the division out. Atlanta loses their last two division games and Carolina and TB face the same connundrum as scenario A. The last game basically determing their division records.

Maybe I'll be wrong and it will probably be a good thing because if I didn't bring this up, it would no doubt happen.

Also we have gone 3-1 or 2-2 against the NFC divisions since SP and Brees arrived. Further, it would suck if we lost to LA because there is no conceivable way we lose that game if we had our heads on straight.