Joe Horn wants to be a Falcon ...

WhoDat · 03-16-2005, 02:49 PM

Easy enough?

If by \"comparable player\" you mean a guy who can go to the Pro Bowl four out of the next 5 years, produce at a rate that places him in the top 5 of all NFL WRs while having to catch laser shots throw behind him at his feet for $4 million per season, then I say NO, that\'s not \"easy enough.\" But hey, I\'m sure all of you guys screaming to get rid of Joe Horn can name a WR who wouldn\'t demand more than a 3 year 13.5 million dollar contract and produce 1200+ yards and 9TDs a season, right? That guy\'s name is...???

Tobias-Reiper · 03-16-2005, 04:58 PM

..that\'s the thing... I am not a stats guy, but you look at the numbers Joe put up last year, no one in the team is even close! Obviously there are \"factors\" that contribute to this, and I am not going to get into them right now... but all things equal, he is the only time-proven receiver the Saints have...
So the obvious question in front of the Saints is: can anyone currently on the roster give us the same production?
Donte? Devery? Beerman?
..that\'s the leverage Horn has right now on the Saints... yes there are better receivers out there, and Joe may not be \"top 5\", but, like it or not, he\'s \"#1\" in new Orleans...

... I would love to see Donte finally establish himself, but what are the chances?

BreesFN9 · 03-16-2005, 05:01 PM

... I would love to see Donte finally establish himself, but what are the chances?

GOOD!

Halo · 03-16-2005, 05:12 PM

You know guys there\'s not even a link to this supposed rumor, and I\'ve searched the Atlanta Journal Constitution website and there has never been mention of this. I think this is GumboBC\'s stir up the pot thread for yesterday and today.

There\'s really nothing to get \"rowled up\" about, there\'s really no news here at all about this.

If you post news, link it back to the source or it can be deleted.

[Edited on 3/16/2005 by Halo]

saintswhodi · 03-16-2005, 05:17 PM

If by \"comparable player\" you mean a guy who can go to the Pro Bowl four out of the next 5 years,

Only problem with your theory Who is that JOE won\'t be going to the pro bowl four of the next five years. So if you are looking to replace him for his PAST performances, I don\'t think we can do that. So since JOe can\'t be the JOE you want for the next 4 of 5 years, the point of not being able to find someone to replace him is moot. Expands the list greatly if you consider the production we will be getting from a 38 year old Joe in 5 years doesn\'t it?

BlackandBlue · 03-16-2005, 05:25 PM

Marcus Allen was able to extend his career because he split play time with Bo Jackson. How is Horn any different?

EDIT: On another note, I\'m not budging on this, at all, nor do I think any of the other participants of this discussion will either, so I\'m done. I\'ve made all the points I want to make on the subject. One more, \"Sign Joe!!!!\" and I\'ll be on my way.

[Edited on 16/3/2005 by BlackandBlue]

WhoDat · 03-16-2005, 11:07 PM

So since JOe can\'t be the JOE you want for the next 4 of 5 years, the point of not being able to find someone to replace him is moot. Expands the list greatly if you consider the production we will be getting from a 38 year old Joe in 5 years doesn\'t it?

Oh, I see. You know how Joe Horn will be playing in 5 years. My bad, I didn\'t realize that you could predict the future. Is Joe Horn LIKELY to be a Pro Bowler in 5 years? No. Is he likely to be productive over the next 5 years? Yes. Is L. Coles or Plaxico LIKELY to be a Pro Bowler in 5 years? No. Are those guys likely to be productive? Sure. But given the choice between a known commodity who is due some love and, yes, money, from this team and a couple of younger guys who would cost picks in a trade and probably end up costing close to the amount of $$ that Joe will end up getting - I\'ll take Horn. I said that 3 years ago when he signed his current extension and I was berated then too. I\'d say two Pro Bowls, nearly 3,500 yards and 10 TDs a season is good enough for me.

You guys act like a Joe Horn is easy to come by. There must be 40 or 50 guys out there who can produce top 5 numbers over 5 straight seasons right? Oh, then why are there only 5? And when was the last time you saw the Saints sign one of those guys?

saintswhodi · 03-17-2005, 10:29 AM

I could name a list of guys who could do what Joe Horn did ON THIS TEAM. Do we forget the other players aren\'t ON THIS TEAM so their stats are not gonna be what Joe\'s are? How many times must the same argument be repeated? Think Harrison\'s numbers dropped cause Wayne AND Stokley played out of this world last year? Think Moss\' dropped cause he was hurt or playing hurt in 8 or more games? I named about 15-20 receivers who could do what Joe does, he ain\'t nothing special. So if I can\'t think at his age he WON\"T go to 4 of the next 5 pro-bowls, what makes you think you can predict he will? Pot.......kettle.

Who said anything about Plaxico? I never once in ANY thread said HE was better than Joe. So you are making things up again like the Deuce deal? Doesn\'t make your blindness towards Joe any more valid. I did say Coles, since he is what, 5 years younger than Joe and has gone to a pro bowl and caught 90 balls last year in a TERRIBLE offense. Terrible. I bet IN OUR OFFENSE he would have a better chance of going to the pro bowl 4 of the next 5 years than Joe. But of course when you look through Madden video game glasses guys don\'t slow down when they reach their mid thirties. Good call.

WhoDat · 03-17-2005, 11:12 AM

Joe Horn had what 1300 yards receiving in 2000 when Willie Jackson did also.

Joe Horn had 1300 yards receiving in 2004 when there was virtually no other threat at WR and a bad running attack.

There are other guys on this team that can put up Joe Horn numbers right now? Who? You\'re telling me if Stallworth was the number 1 he\'d have 1300 yards receiving on 90 some odd catches and 11 TDs? Maybe he could get to 11 TDs... Oh, and let\'s not forget Gardner and the Beer Man. If only Haslett would insert them in the starting lineup they\'d both be Pro Bowlers too. Are you nuts?

saintswhodi · 03-17-2005, 11:19 AM

Okay, now I have no idea what you are talking about. I mention Coles, Moss, Harrison, and the other guys I previously listed, and you talk about Stallowrth and Beer man? Dude, when you lose an argument, you go down in a blaze don\'t you? I don\'t even know what you are talking about with that one.

Let me quote what I said:

I did say Coles, since he is what, 5 years younger than Joe and has gone to a pro bowl and caught 90 balls last year in a TERRIBLE offense. Terrible. I bet IN OUR OFFENSE he would have a better chance of going to the pro bowl 4 of the next 5 years than Joe

That talks about if Coles was in our offense.

I could name a list of guys who could do what Joe Horn did ON THIS TEAM. Do we forget the other players aren\'t ON THIS TEAM so their stats are not gonna be what Joe\'s are? How many times must the same argument be repeated? Think Harrison\'s numbers dropped cause Wayne AND Stokley played out of this world last year? Think Moss\' dropped cause he was hurt or playing hurt in 8 or more games? I named about 15-20 receivers who could do what Joe does, he ain\'t nothing special.

This talks about if OTHER RECEIVERS were in our offense, they would be doing what Joe does. Ya know other receivers, not already in our offense? Like Andre Johnson and Chad Johnson and any of the other 15 or so guys I listed. Ya know, how you keep throwing out Joe\'s numbers? If other receivers were in our offense, they coudl do the same? Anything getting though? Where does Stallworth and Beerman fit into that? :seeingstars:

03-16-2005, 02:49 PM	#41
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Joe Horn wants to be a Falcon ... Easy enough? If by \"comparable player\" you mean a guy who can go to the Pro Bowl four out of the next 5 years, produce at a rate that places him in the top 5 of all NFL WRs while having to catch laser shots throw behind him at his feet for $4 million per season, then I say NO, that\'s not \"easy enough.\" But hey, I\'m sure all of you guys screaming to get rid of Joe Horn can name a WR who wouldn\'t demand more than a 3 year 13.5 million dollar contract and produce 1200+ yards and 9TDs a season, right? That guy\'s name is...???
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

03-16-2005, 04:58 PM	#42
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Joe Horn wants to be a Falcon ... ..that\'s the thing... I am not a stats guy, but you look at the numbers Joe put up last year, no one in the team is even close! Obviously there are \"factors\" that contribute to this, and I am not going to get into them right now... but all things equal, he is the only time-proven receiver the Saints have... So the obvious question in front of the Saints is: can anyone currently on the roster give us the same production? Donte? Devery? Beerman? ..that\'s the leverage Horn has right now on the Saints... yes there are better receivers out there, and Joe may not be \"top 5\", but, like it or not, he\'s \"#1\" in new Orleans... ... I would love to see Donte finally establish himself, but what are the chances?
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

03-16-2005, 05:01 PM	#43
BreesFN9 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 596	Joe Horn wants to be a Falcon ... ... I would love to see Donte finally establish himself, but what are the chances? GOOD!

03-16-2005, 05:12 PM	#44
Halo Site Donor MONTHLY Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 20,607 Blog Entries: 45	Joe Horn wants to be a Falcon ... You know guys there\'s not even a link to this supposed rumor, and I\'ve searched the Atlanta Journal Constitution website and there has never been mention of this. I think this is GumboBC\'s stir up the pot thread for yesterday and today. There\'s really nothing to get \"rowled up\" about, there\'s really no news here at all about this. If you post news, link it back to the source or it can be deleted. [Edited on 3/16/2005 by Halo]

03-16-2005, 05:17 PM	#45
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Joe Horn wants to be a Falcon ... If by \"comparable player\" you mean a guy who can go to the Pro Bowl four out of the next 5 years, Only problem with your theory Who is that JOE won\'t be going to the pro bowl four of the next five years. So if you are looking to replace him for his PAST performances, I don\'t think we can do that. So since JOe can\'t be the JOE you want for the next 4 of 5 years, the point of not being able to find someone to replace him is moot. Expands the list greatly if you consider the production we will be getting from a 38 year old Joe in 5 years doesn\'t it?

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03-16-2005, 05:25 PM	#46
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Joe Horn wants to be a Falcon ... Marcus Allen was able to extend his career because he split play time with Bo Jackson. How is Horn any different? EDIT: On another note, I\'m not budging on this, at all, nor do I think any of the other participants of this discussion will either, so I\'m done. I\'ve made all the points I want to make on the subject. One more, \"Sign Joe!!!!\" and I\'ll be on my way. [Edited on 16/3/2005 by BlackandBlue]

03-16-2005, 11:07 PM	#47
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Joe Horn wants to be a Falcon ... So since JOe can\'t be the JOE you want for the next 4 of 5 years, the point of not being able to find someone to replace him is moot. Expands the list greatly if you consider the production we will be getting from a 38 year old Joe in 5 years doesn\'t it? Oh, I see. You know how Joe Horn will be playing in 5 years. My bad, I didn\'t realize that you could predict the future. Is Joe Horn LIKELY to be a Pro Bowler in 5 years? No. Is he likely to be productive over the next 5 years? Yes. Is L. Coles or Plaxico LIKELY to be a Pro Bowler in 5 years? No. Are those guys likely to be productive? Sure. But given the choice between a known commodity who is due some love and, yes, money, from this team and a couple of younger guys who would cost picks in a trade and probably end up costing close to the amount of $$ that Joe will end up getting - I\'ll take Horn. I said that 3 years ago when he signed his current extension and I was berated then too. I\'d say two Pro Bowls, nearly 3,500 yards and 10 TDs a season is good enough for me. You guys act like a Joe Horn is easy to come by. There must be 40 or 50 guys out there who can produce top 5 numbers over 5 straight seasons right? Oh, then why are there only 5? And when was the last time you saw the Saints sign one of those guys?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

03-17-2005, 10:29 AM	#48
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Joe Horn wants to be a Falcon ... I could name a list of guys who could do what Joe Horn did ON THIS TEAM. Do we forget the other players aren\'t ON THIS TEAM so their stats are not gonna be what Joe\'s are? How many times must the same argument be repeated? Think Harrison\'s numbers dropped cause Wayne AND Stokley played out of this world last year? Think Moss\' dropped cause he was hurt or playing hurt in 8 or more games? I named about 15-20 receivers who could do what Joe does, he ain\'t nothing special. So if I can\'t think at his age he WON\"T go to 4 of the next 5 pro-bowls, what makes you think you can predict he will? Pot.......kettle. Who said anything about Plaxico? I never once in ANY thread said HE was better than Joe. So you are making things up again like the Deuce deal? Doesn\'t make your blindness towards Joe any more valid. I did say Coles, since he is what, 5 years younger than Joe and has gone to a pro bowl and caught 90 balls last year in a TERRIBLE offense. Terrible. I bet IN OUR OFFENSE he would have a better chance of going to the pro bowl 4 of the next 5 years than Joe. But of course when you look through Madden video game glasses guys don\'t slow down when they reach their mid thirties. Good call.

03-17-2005, 11:12 AM	#49
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Joe Horn wants to be a Falcon ... Joe Horn had what 1300 yards receiving in 2000 when Willie Jackson did also. Joe Horn had 1300 yards receiving in 2004 when there was virtually no other threat at WR and a bad running attack. There are other guys on this team that can put up Joe Horn numbers right now? Who? You\'re telling me if Stallworth was the number 1 he\'d have 1300 yards receiving on 90 some odd catches and 11 TDs? Maybe he could get to 11 TDs... Oh, and let\'s not forget Gardner and the Beer Man. If only Haslett would insert them in the starting lineup they\'d both be Pro Bowlers too. Are you nuts?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

03-17-2005, 11:19 AM	#50
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Joe Horn wants to be a Falcon ... Okay, now I have no idea what you are talking about. I mention Coles, Moss, Harrison, and the other guys I previously listed, and you talk about Stallowrth and Beer man? Dude, when you lose an argument, you go down in a blaze don\'t you? I don\'t even know what you are talking about with that one. Let me quote what I said: I did say Coles, since he is what, 5 years younger than Joe and has gone to a pro bowl and caught 90 balls last year in a TERRIBLE offense. Terrible. I bet IN OUR OFFENSE he would have a better chance of going to the pro bowl 4 of the next 5 years than Joe That talks about if Coles was in our offense. I could name a list of guys who could do what Joe Horn did ON THIS TEAM. Do we forget the other players aren\'t ON THIS TEAM so their stats are not gonna be what Joe\'s are? How many times must the same argument be repeated? Think Harrison\'s numbers dropped cause Wayne AND Stokley played out of this world last year? Think Moss\' dropped cause he was hurt or playing hurt in 8 or more games? I named about 15-20 receivers who could do what Joe does, he ain\'t nothing special. This talks about if OTHER RECEIVERS were in our offense, they would be doing what Joe does. Ya know other receivers, not already in our offense? Like Andre Johnson and Chad Johnson and any of the other 15 or so guys I listed. Ya know, how you keep throwing out Joe\'s numbers? If other receivers were in our offense, they coudl do the same? Anything getting though? Where does Stallworth and Beerman fit into that? :seeingstars: