Saints GM Mickey Loomis values free agency over compensatory picks

jeanpierre · 03-01-2017, 09:55 AM

And there you have it, from Mr. Horse's mouth...

Danno · 03-01-2017, 10:16 AM

I agree, if those free agents are the 2nd tier guys that fill holes, not the mega-money types.

That will change when Brees hangs it up. Then we should probably focus more on building cheap through the draft

saintsfan1976 · 03-01-2017, 10:25 AM

He's wrong IMHO.

In my view compensatory picks are cheaper to pay and arguably increase their value over time. In other words young draft picks generally improve skills over time and become worth higher draft picks if they leave for another team.

We on the other hand sign free agents who eventually lose value (age, injury, delcline in production) and we get nothing for them in return, often times they cost us MORE in dead money.

The teams who draft well, coach well and gain more draft picks are perrinial contendors. We haven't done those things well enough and therefore finish 7-9 in 4 of the last 5 seasons.

SmashMouth · 03-01-2017, 11:06 AM

The Patriots say hello.

jeanpierre · 03-01-2017, 11:41 AM

Look at the teams that have been in the Superbowl the most these past ten-fifteen years and those teams have also had the most compensatory picks...

The more darts you have to throw, the better your chances of hitting - it really is that simple.

dizzle88 · 03-01-2017, 12:14 PM

We miss on average more than half of our draft class in the SP era.

That leads to having to find players in Free Agency, but the players you sign there are like used motors - all they ever do is depreciate in value, you eventually end up releasing them for free or holding onto them for too long and hurting the team.

The fact we've been historically poor in both drafting and free agency has led to three straight losing seasons, if we had 10 picks a year like the Patriots do then we'd be in a much better spot. We rarely have players to trade for high value because we rarely hit big on players in the draft, and when we do, we absolutely can't afford to get rid of them.

The Patriots sent their best LB to cleveland mid season and still won the super bowl.

AsylumGuido · 03-01-2017, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

We miss on average more than half of our draft class in the SP era.

That leads to having to find players in Free Agency, but the players you sign there are like used motors - all they ever do is depreciate in value, you eventually end up releasing them for free or holding onto them for too long and hurting the team.

The fact we've been historically poor in both drafting and free agency has led to three straight losing seasons, if we had 10 picks a year like the Patriots do then we'd be in a much better spot. We rarely have players to trade for high value because we rarely hit big on players in the draft, and when we do, we absolutely can't afford to get rid of them.

The Patriots sent their best LB to cleveland mid season and still won the super bowl.

I heard Bill Polian say that most teams historically only have around a third of drafted players ever crack a starting lineup. He said that fan's, and media's, expectations are unreasonably high when it comes to the draft.

jeanpierre · 03-01-2017, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I heard Bill Polian say that most teams historically only have around a third of drafted players ever crack a starting lineup. He said that fan's, and media's, expectations are unreasonably high when it comes to the draft.

I disagree with the part of fan expectations and here are a couple of reasons why...

First, the NFL's combine and draft process is flawed - teams should have more access to players, especially with regards to these speed-dating interviews...

Second, those interviews should cover character and film-study in more depth than is currently afforded; scouts should be on the roads, especially ProDays do more in-depth interviews and background work...

Third, especially with respect to Day 1 and Day 2 picks, to completely whiff on players (out of league within two seasons), when you have the financial resources, technical resources, and manpower resources is totally inexcusable...

The fact that Bill Polian made that statement has no weight as he's being nothing more than an apologist for he and his contemporaries who are paid handsomely with resources and not to field competently staffed teams...

AsylumGuido · 03-01-2017, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

I disagree with the part of fan expectations and here are a couple of reasons why...

First, the NFL's combine and draft process is flawed - teams should have more access to players, especially with regards to these speed-dating interviews...

Second, those interviews should cover character and film-study in more depth than is currently afforded...

Third, especially with respect to Day 1 and Day 2 picks, to completely whiff on players (out of league within two seasons), when you have the financial resources, technical resources, and manpower resources is totally inexcusable...

The fact that Bill Polian made that statement has no weight as he's being nothing more than an apologist for he and his contemporaries who are paid handsomely with resources and not to field competently staffed teams...

The combine interviews are only initial meetings between the teams and the players. The teams can, and do, have longer more in-depth interviews at the pro days and at their own facilities.

And I agree that whiffing on Day 1 and 2 picks are bad, but hopefully those days are in the past for the Saints now that Ireland has become involved. The past is just that ... the past.

But the one in three ratio he quoted was supposedly hard factual numbers based upon historical figures.

ScottF · 03-01-2017, 02:50 PM

Sign a guy of greater value than the guy you lost and you have a vet for the entire year. OR
lose a guy of greater value and 14 months later you get, at best, pick number 97

seems simple enough

03-01-2017, 09:55 AM	#1
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Saints GM Mickey Loomis values free agency over compensatory picks And there you have it, from Mr. Horse's mouth... Twitter

03-01-2017, 10:16 AM	#2
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: Saints GM Mickey Loomis values free agency over compensatory picks I agree, if those free agents are the 2nd tier guys that fill holes, not the mega-money types. That will change when Brees hangs it up. Then we should probably focus more on building cheap through the draft ScottF likes this.

03-01-2017, 10:25 AM	#3
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,832 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints GM Mickey Loomis values free agency over compensatory picks He's wrong IMHO. In my view compensatory picks are cheaper to pay and arguably increase their value over time. In other words young draft picks generally improve skills over time and become worth higher draft picks if they leave for another team. We on the other hand sign free agents who eventually lose value (age, injury, delcline in production) and we get nothing for them in return, often times they cost us MORE in dead money. The teams who draft well, coach well and gain more draft picks are perrinial contendors. We haven't done those things well enough and therefore finish 7-9 in 4 of the last 5 seasons. hagan714, jeanpierre, dizzle88 and 1 others like this.

03-01-2017, 11:06 AM	#4
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,127 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Saints GM Mickey Loomis values free agency over compensatory picks The Patriots say hello. hagan714 likes this.

03-01-2017, 11:41 AM	#5
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints GM Mickey Loomis values free agency over compensatory picks Look at the teams that have been in the Superbowl the most these past ten-fifteen years and those teams have also had the most compensatory picks... The more darts you have to throw, the better your chances of hitting - it really is that simple.

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03-01-2017, 12:14 PM	#6
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,208	Re: Saints GM Mickey Loomis values free agency over compensatory picks We miss on average more than half of our draft class in the SP era. That leads to having to find players in Free Agency, but the players you sign there are like used motors - all they ever do is depreciate in value, you eventually end up releasing them for free or holding onto them for too long and hurting the team. The fact we've been historically poor in both drafting and free agency has led to three straight losing seasons, if we had 10 picks a year like the Patriots do then we'd be in a much better spot. We rarely have players to trade for high value because we rarely hit big on players in the draft, and when we do, we absolutely can't afford to get rid of them. The Patriots sent their best LB to cleveland mid season and still won the super bowl.
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03-01-2017, 01:20 PM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,237	Re: Saints GM Mickey Loomis values free agency over compensatory picks Originally Posted by dizzle88 We miss on average more than half of our draft class in the SP era. That leads to having to find players in Free Agency, but the players you sign there are like used motors - all they ever do is depreciate in value, you eventually end up releasing them for free or holding onto them for too long and hurting the team. The fact we've been historically poor in both drafting and free agency has led to three straight losing seasons, if we had 10 picks a year like the Patriots do then we'd be in a much better spot. We rarely have players to trade for high value because we rarely hit big on players in the draft, and when we do, we absolutely can't afford to get rid of them. The Patriots sent their best LB to cleveland mid season and still won the super bowl. I heard Bill Polian say that most teams historically only have around a third of drafted players ever crack a starting lineup. He said that fan's, and media's, expectations are unreasonably high when it comes to the draft.

03-01-2017, 02:01 PM	#8
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints GM Mickey Loomis values free agency over compensatory picks Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I heard Bill Polian say that most teams historically only have around a third of drafted players ever crack a starting lineup. He said that fan's, and media's, expectations are unreasonably high when it comes to the draft. I disagree with the part of fan expectations and here are a couple of reasons why... First, the NFL's combine and draft process is flawed - teams should have more access to players, especially with regards to these speed-dating interviews... Second, those interviews should cover character and film-study in more depth than is currently afforded; scouts should be on the roads, especially ProDays do more in-depth interviews and background work... Third, especially with respect to Day 1 and Day 2 picks, to completely whiff on players (out of league within two seasons), when you have the financial resources, technical resources, and manpower resources is totally inexcusable... The fact that Bill Polian made that statement has no weight as he's being nothing more than an apologist for he and his contemporaries who are paid handsomely with resources and not to field competently staffed teams...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

03-01-2017, 02:14 PM	#9
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,237	Re: Saints GM Mickey Loomis values free agency over compensatory picks Originally Posted by jeanpierre I disagree with the part of fan expectations and here are a couple of reasons why... First, the NFL's combine and draft process is flawed - teams should have more access to players, especially with regards to these speed-dating interviews... Second, those interviews should cover character and film-study in more depth than is currently afforded... Third, especially with respect to Day 1 and Day 2 picks, to completely whiff on players (out of league within two seasons), when you have the financial resources, technical resources, and manpower resources is totally inexcusable... The fact that Bill Polian made that statement has no weight as he's being nothing more than an apologist for he and his contemporaries who are paid handsomely with resources and not to field competently staffed teams... The combine interviews are only initial meetings between the teams and the players. The teams can, and do, have longer more in-depth interviews at the pro days and at their own facilities. And I agree that whiffing on Day 1 and 2 picks are bad, but hopefully those days are in the past for the Saints now that Ireland has become involved. The past is just that ... the past. But the one in three ratio he quoted was supposedly hard factual numbers based upon historical figures. darksoul35 likes this.

03-01-2017, 02:50 PM	#10
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Saints GM Mickey Loomis values free agency over compensatory picks Sign a guy of greater value than the guy you lost and you have a vet for the entire year. OR lose a guy of greater value and 14 months later you get, at best, pick number 97 seems simple enough