Defense Defense Defense
 

This set me off

Win now? Let us be honest here.

What are the saints to do after the Cook trade? Now the inability to keep defenses out of the box will become a huge issue. For those hanging their hat on Tedd Ginn, well good luck with that one. Ever ask yourself why he is always out on the market as a free agent? Because of stone cold hands drops. For every one one high light reel there are 3 bloopers. He does not scare anyone. Even the saints went man coverage on him last year. Not worth game planning over the top safety help.

Never was a huge fan of the Cook pick. The saints once again the saints did not get the players to maximize that huge first round investment. Just wait till the Pats put him to use with the right supporting cast. What a waste! Add him to end of the list. Byrd feels better now that some one is behind him now.

The trade of Cook only amplified the needs of the offense. This needs list on offense is the same needs list since we drafted Cook and traded Jimmy. One day you have to complete what you started.

- Any one happy with or TE production or the contact money tied up in that position?
- Who is Zach's back up? We have no one. This is a dead horse Peat is beating
- Now we need a solid true #2 with the ability to keep defenses honest?

I am sick of the same shopping list year after year. Fix it now and forever.

Round 1 - O.J. Howard TE Alabama 6056 251 4.51 #88 Sr
Round 1 - Garret Bolles OT/OG/DT Utah 6050 296 4.97 #75 Jr
Round 2 - Chris Godwin WR Penn St 6010 209 4.42 #12 Jr
Round 3 - Curtis Samuel WR/RB/KR Ohio State 5105 196 4.31 #4 Jr
Round 3 - Joe Mixon, RB, Oklahoma 6011 226 4.50 #25 rSo
Round 6 - Robert Davis WR Georgia State 6025 219 4.45
Round 7 - Mack Hollins WR NC State 6040 221 4.53 #13 Sr

Once again the saints are going down yet another rabbit hole. Add all the players you want to the defense you want. It is not getting you to the super bowl much less a division title. We will be lucky to be sniffing a wild card. Even then the football gods will need play huge roll.

You can not keep doing stupid things to the offense and expect Drew to do it all. Drew can only do so much. The saints appear to have Drew playing with one arm behind his back yet again.

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Who is Matt Miller?

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Hagan, I'm not so sure about that brother. See stats below:


Defensive Rank

• The average NFL defensive rank for an eventual Super Bowl champion is 6.8 (seventh).

• The top-ranked defense has REACHED the Super Bowl 11 times and is 8-3 in the Super Bowl.

Points Allowed

• The team allowing the fewest points during the season has REACHED the Super Bowl 18 times and is 13-5 in the Super Bowl.

Sacks

• 45 of the 47 Super Bowl champions have totaled at least 30 sacks in a season.
Source: THE NUMBERS BEHIND SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS

The 2017 Champs (Pats) ranked #1 in points allowed, 14th in takeaways and 8th in yards allowed. Defense ultimately matters most at this level.

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He's pretty good

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Sorry Hagan 😔

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Had to improve the D somehow and not many shiny toys to use.

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LMAO you can draft all defense for the next two years and still not get there. You can spend all the cash in FA also. No defense is built in two or three years.

Maybe after Drew retires then we are in a totally different situation.

Offense is what we must not destroy. That is what got us into this mess in the first place right after the super bowl. Took a few years of raping the offense and some bad DCs to put us back at the bottom of the NFC South.

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We went from the 32nd ranked D in 2012, to the 4th ranked D in 2013. It is very possible.

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Dizz, I think today's NFL is all about fit and resource allocation.

Combine just the right amount of high priced studs with the appropriate amount of role players on both sides of the ball and you have the recipe for success.

I think most teams that fail are trying to put square pegs in round holes.

The Patriots are notorious for placing square pegs in square holes, and round pegs in round holes. I know its easier said than done, but thats how you win today and stay under the cap.

Pick a system and acquire players that fit that system. No one can argue with the Patriots success doing just that.

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That's why Rob Ryans D worked so well in year 1, we had players that fit his scheme

Vaccaro would play in the slot and match up against TE's
Junior and Cam could pin their ears back and attack
Jabari and Keenan Lewis could both lock down their guy in man coverage which meant we were able to blitz with more security and effectiveness.

Let's just hope Dennis Allen has a plan and it gets implemented well!

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Sorry, had him confused with Matt Millen.

Y'all have done everything but come right out and say it. Without the coaches, our players are gonna suck regardless of talent level. Hagan, I'm thinking a few more additions to our D and we're gonna do some good stuff this year with the new coaches we have. Now that being said, I'm not going to cry or chew on my computer if we take O.J. with our first and then spend some time on the D side of the ball with the next three or four.

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We also lost the division to Carolina because of our offense in road games. Hagan is right. Yes, we need defense. But Brees showed in 2014 that without Colston in his prime, Cooks, and a attentive Graham(who teams easily shadowed), he wasn't that great. Oline maybe, but the oline's had the same performances against any pressuring defense.

The offense didn't look all that great last year in terms of points against NYG, SD(turnovers won that game), KC, Seattle, Denver, Carolina, DETROIT, TBx2, Atlanta.

So we were ranked top five. Big deal. The bottom line is the points don't match up.

Also, we got Warford to replace Evans not the LG, which Warford is not. The FO didn't even consider Armstead's injury issues leaving the likes of Lelito(who is gone), Kelemete to man that position. It's like we are relying on Armstead to be completely healthy.

Brees tends to throw a pick against every good defense he faces which is frustrating. Ted Ginn JR cannot replace Cooks. Are we really relying on the lightbulb coming on for Fleener? Nvm he can't block so he won't get all the snaps.

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I agree Danno. The Saints are having a fit trying to allocate any kind of resources.

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I only wish I could like this twice.

SFIAH

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I don't see any offensive player in the first round making an impact this year outside McCaffrey. We need an impact on D.

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did well till the pats figured out what dingle berries was doing and then we went south the rest of the season.

what does dingles do in the off season? dump players and brought in his own. the slide down the rankings continued.

This defense is mess and a long way from getting the talent of that defense he started with

DA has a huge task ahead of him

This why I am against signing a big ticket FA ie CB. We need bodies to improve all away across the board the talent we have.

year after year we have jumped from 34 to a 43 to a 34 and back to a 43 yet again.

people actually believe we can purge and retool over night.

all at the cost of the one thing that works. our offense

it makes no sense.

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Hagan,

I think we've seen in the past that if the defense can just get to average that will propel the team forward. Some defensive 16th places last year:

3rd down percentage: 39.4% Saints were 28th at 43.3%
Points 23.6 Saints were 31st at 28.4
Takeaways: 22 Saints were 17th at 21

in some ways it's not that far off. Get the points down under 24 with small bumps on the 3rd downs and Takeaways is all the required to be competitive IMO.
I'm in complete agreement here. The biggest problem in the secondary has been injuries. The solution is more capable players and not putting all the money into a single player.

Well we're not in heading into year 2.5 with DA. Also for better or worse the IR bench will be cleared at least at the beginning of OTAs. Finally a lot of young guys got a lot of experience. All of these should point up instead of down.
I understand your frustration. But clearly the path to the next level is improvement on the defensive side of the ball.

I'm not sure the primary motivation for moving Cooks was driven by defensive improvement. My belief (which of course can be completely off base) is that the Saints decided that Cooks wasn't going to be in the long term plans of the team and that it was best to get the most value for him before having to do the heavy investment in order of the roster bonus this month, the option year next year, then presumably having being stuck tagging him or letting him walk.

Not that I'd be unhappy getting a productive defensive player with that 32nd pick.

SFIAH

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all i see is the saints are doomed to repeat the same old mistakes of the past once again.

I have one thing I hang my hat on and that is my faith in DA not to allow the saints to go down that road. Unlike so many of the DC before him, DA knows how to coach on the field with the players he has.

I do not expect a draft as heavy on defense as saints fans and the media scouts are thinking. RB TE and WR are pretty good this year. Finding a RT for the future will be hard.

If ROT is not addressed early we might as well skip them all together. This is one of the worse draft classes I have ever seen in a long time for OT. Load up on OT in UDFA like we did OG last year and praying to the gods we strike gold is crazy. We will go into next years off season with RT as the #1 need for this team. We need that player NOW. We did not address this glaring issue in FA this year. The Peat screw up or defensive needs should not keep us from addressing the issue. Zach goes down we are screwed. Zach retires next year we are screwed. We are kinda back into a corner now. Draft that player early now and have more to invest on defense in the 2018 FA.

We still have no replacement for Hightower.

Do not forget SP no longer has a toy for his offense. SP loves and needs a toy to make his offense work. SP offense needs that toy. SP is a TOY JUNKY and we all know he will spend a fortune on getting his fix.

Upgrade at 3rd down RB is needed. Below average play and/or sitting on IR year after year is not working. We have too many roster spots occupied with return specialist that have not gotten the job done. I see up to 3 roster spots that can be freed up with one addition. Spots that can be used to add players in other areas of needs. IE defense

TE and WR can be had through out the draft and I full expect the saints to dip into pool on draft day.

SP wants to get Drew to sign an extension he better make Drew happy and fill him with hope. Later round and/or playing it cute will not cut it.

I see a two to three year plan to get this defense to be able to hang in the top 20 despite injuries. It makes no sense to pass on offense players or make them a top priority in FA limiting the defensive additions in 2018. Welcome to year two of the rebuild. I do not see this defense in such dire need as most. I want to see what DA does with the players coming off IR, FA additions and the ones in the draft before I light my hair on fire and start running in circle screaming the sky is falling. I did not do that last year and I refuse to do it before this year starts

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Not that I disagree with you much, but for the life in me I don't get the love for Allen.
Gregg Williams and Sharper made this guy, without them he's nothing.
As a DC in Denver he did little there and as a HC failed miserably.
Not one stop has he proven to be"the man", he's been living off of Williams accomplishments and I really seen no team out there wanting him especially as their DC. I like this guy about as much as you liked Ryan but he's going to be just as bad. I don't believe he can get us to a 24th ranked D with Payton loading the smoking gun for him the way Payton has been doing this season and last season. I ask myself what a proven DC could do with the personel we have on the D and I come to the conclusion that it's going to be much better than what Allen will do. If Payton truely wanted to "win now" he should have gotten him a truely proven guy and let him take care of his D with staff included, but he chose to keep his puppet boy Allen, well he's here. I'm as tired as you about the D dropping the ball and now we're taking pieces on the O to fix this god awful D. I do agree we'll be lucky to see a wildcard and totally agree about it taking time to build one in which Allen has had the reins on for 2 1/2 years now and hasn't got it done.

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You might be right. As a Saints fan, let's hope things work out.

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DA did not have a defense to work with last year. The last half of the previous year was spent trying to save what he could after Rob. Who once again is out of job after he destroyed the Bills defense like he did here and in Dallas. DA is cleaning up Robs mess.

As for the Oakland bit I have to say that was a mixed bag of tricks. He walked onto a sinking ship and made a huge mistake. Trying to turn it into a winner over night by investing a ton of money in FA. Why? owners or him? hard to say. I do not see him making the same mistake twice.

But the core of that team was drafted by DA. He has a solid grasp on the big picture.

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There was a reason he became one of the youngest DC's in the league, and then the youngest HC in the league.

I think he'll be a fine HC eventually.

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I am, but damn it gets old watching a top O not have a chance because of a pathetic D.

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How long is eventually would be the question? Some never do and I still don't see it with him or his body of work. This is his tell tell year..

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We just need to add someone to catch Fleener or Ginn Jr. Brees has never had a offense where not one player has the Colston or Graham factor. If you take a closer look at Thomas, he does not have Cooks' speed and a lot of his runs were after the catch. That's not how a elite receiver operates.

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So your saying Thomas is not an elite receiver because he catches the ball and breaks tackles, gaining additonal yardage?

Seriously, what are you smoking?

Brandin Cooks as good as he was, could not break tackles and would fall over at the sight of contact.

There's no question in my mind that Thomas will be much better than Cooks.

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Nope; Not elite at all :rolleyes:

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Brandin Cooks was "Elite" to you? He finished #3 to the obvious "Non Elite" WR's for the Saints!!! Oh by the way Jimmy Graham was 52nd!

2016 NFL Yards After Catch Leaders

#9 Michael Thomas
#30 Willie Snead
#35 Brandin Cooks

Oh yes, Two other obvious "Non Elite" WR's

#7 Odell Beckham Jr
#19 Julio Jones

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Tedd is another Robert Meachem.

Thomas looks to have all the makings of a solid possession receiver just like Colston.

Fleener truthfully is entering the last year of his ridiculous contract. If the saints play this right

You bring me to my TE pick of OJ Howard. One of the benefits of Howard is getting us out of that freaking contract next year so we can have an additional 3.3 million in 2018 and 6.3 million in 2019. Of course this is after subtracting out OJs cost to us of about $2,5 mill/yr if picked at 11. Cap control via the draft. A thing the Pats do extremely well.

Now to my second point. Find me a WR that can match Howard combination of athletic/size/speed combination. He has the skill set to make you forget about Graham He is Graham with a skill set Jimmy was never good at. Blocking. Right now I am thinking he is not only the best TE in the draft but could be the best WR. Your actually drafting two players with one pick. He will make up for Cooks loss. This is a once in a life time freak.

O.J. Howard TE Alabama 6055 251 4.51 #88 Sr

This guy running around in the secondary would scare the helll out of DC league wide. Knowing that Drew loves using his TE makes him even more dangerous. Freeing up every one. Ever see OJ block down field. A thing of beauty. His impact on the field would be felt on every down no matter what he does.

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Thomas reminded me of number two guys last year like Decker and Sanders. Those receivers could not stand alone as number ones. I don't see Thomas as a number one. I have seen Colston in his prime catch deep TD passes. Thomas has not shown that yet. I just don't see it. He was fine where he was but I don't see Thomas in the same league as Brown, Jones, ODB, Green. He's not even Evans, Allen, and Watkins.

The truth is the saints don't have many things good, that fans over-value what is good.

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Because Cooks wasn't as targeted. That's why he's that low. Cooks was only used for specialty plays. Thomas yards after catch were different. That's not the way ODB ran. Or Brown.

Laquon Treadwell would be better than Thomas in this offense. Again we accept what other teams consider average.

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Firstly, it was Thomas' rookie season, so regardless you'd have to give him more time.
Secondly, Thomas broke all of Colstons rookie records

Is it Thomas' fault that as per Payton's play calling, Thomas was not designated to run many deep routes. It was obvious Payton liked his ability to work the crossing patterns and break tackles so he got him working to his strengths.

Antonio Brown for instance didn't become the player he is now until his 4th year in the league.

Watch Michael Thomas in his rookie highlights completely out-muscle the DB's he faces and it's impossible to deny he looks like a special talent.

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I will give you a reason why Fleener is still here. I'm going to bet Brees and his family are closest to him than anyone else on the team.

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The guy who couldn't even crack a starting spot for a Minnesota team that badly needed a WR to step up. Seriously, you think that a guy who finished the season with 1 catch for 15 yards, is better suited than a guy that recorded over 1100 yards and 8 TD's. Sorry to say, but your point is utterly ridiculous.

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When Colston caught that monster pass against GB in 2008, that's not something I can see Thomas doing.

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That's because Colston was hurt in 2006!

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If you're going to do stuff like that you better come up with the reasons why. As someone who plays FF and was tracking players like Brown, you know nothing about how the steelers treat their receivers.

Hines Ward, Mike Wallace..........

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There you go again comparing our offense to Minnesota's. Minnesota wanted Treadwell to be the number two behind Diggs. He was also a bad fit for that team from the get go.

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I know nothing about the Steelers, you are quite correct, but didn't you say mid season you were "done supporting the saints" and you honestly think that a receiver who caught one pass all season, is better for us than one who catches 80+ passes. Fail.

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If you think Thomas is a future round 1 receiver in fantasy with the likes of Brown, Jones, and ODB well that's you but no way do i ever see anything like that.