Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

There hasn't been a good stir the pot thread all week. Since the Horn debate died down, there hasn't been much to excite people.... or at least, there hasn't been much to excite me. Thus, I thought I'd visit one of my favorite old debates - the Brooks debate.

It has been said in the past that AB is the present day Jeff George. It's funny to say that considering George is still on Chicago's active roster... I think. Those who believe that cite some of the following similarities:

- Both have/had cannon arms and can throw rocket shots.
- Both are generally considered pretty dumb.
- Both have a ton of potential that hasn't ever seemed to materialize.

Many of the Brooks Lovers on this board have been offended by that. I alwas thought it was a pretty good comparison. So, naturally, I looked into it. Well, comparing the two might be an insult... to Jeff George! :o

Here are some interesting numbers:

Jeff George's hay-day came as a Falcon and Raider, from 1994-1997. He was hurt in 1996, so I took his three best years and compared those to AB's three best (his last three).


G Comp. Percentage: 59.17% (high of 61.5, low of 55.7)
B Comp. Percentage: 56.67% (high of 59.1, low of 53.6)
Advantage: George

G Yards: 3,931 (high of 4,143, low of 3,734)
B Yards: 3,642 (high of 3,810, low of 3,546)
Advantage: George

G YPA: 7.36 (high of 7.52, low of 7.13)
B YPA: 6.88 (high of 7.03, low of 6.77)
Advantage: George

G Long: 74 (high of 85, low of 62)
B Long: 66 (high of 76, low of 57)
Advantage: George

G TDs: 25 (high of 29, low of 23)
B TDs: 24 (high of 27, low of 21)
Advantage: George

G INTs: 12.67 (high of 18, low of 9)
B INTS: 13 (high of 16, low of 8)
Advantage: Push

G 20+ Yard Comp: 53 (high of 59, low of 42)
B 20+ Yard Comp: 47 (high of 57, low of 36)
Advantage: George

G 40+ Yard Comp: 9 (high of 11, low of 7)
B 40+ Yard Comp: 8 (high of 12, low of 5)
Advantage: George

G QB Rating: 87.93 (high of 91, low of 83.3)
B QB Rating: 82.80 (high of 88.8, low of 79.5)
Advantage: George
** Notice that AB's AVERAGE QB rating is LOWER than George's WORST QB rating

G Fumbles: 8, 3 lost (high of 12, 4L, low of 6, 2L)
B Fumbles: 12, 6 lost (high of 14, 11L, low of 11, 2L -- separate years)
Advantage: George


Wow. I had no clue going into this that the numbers would come out so overwhelmingly in George's favor.

Now, you might argue that same old popular line that stats mean nothing. Of course, consider the other circumstances. George racked up these numbers 8 years before AB. The game is more pass happy NOW. There rules favor WR more NOW. QBs are better protected from mean-a$$ hits NOW. Think George had more talent than Brooks has had on offense?

So it looks like, really, Brooks is no Jeff George. LOL.

I can't wait for the Billy/SF reply. :)

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

Where have I seen this before? :rollinglaugh: :seeingstars:

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

My one and only comment before this turns into the typical AB debate re-hashing the exact same things over and over...

Weren\'t Georges stats inflated during the run-and-shoot era? I think thats the most passer friendly era ever. But I could be mistaken.

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

you can also say that george never said he was a great qb on an average team........another step above........
let me ask you this and perhaps someone will come up with the date and team they played when this happened.........
hebert was playing in his final yrs and he was finger pointing at his offensive line.........
i don\'t remember if it was that series of downs or later in the game, or who they were playing, but in that game the offensive line opened up like the red sea.........
after the dust settled, hebert was without a few teeth, and let\'s just say, not feeling too well.........after that, i never saw him point fingers again.........hope brook\'s offensive line reads this.....
moral of story? make sure your brain is engaged before you put your mouth in gear..........smitty

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

I\'d say brooks is more along the lines of bledsoe..bledsoe has better stats..but he is more talented than the production that he gets out of his team..

GEorge had the arm..George also had the biggest attittude in sports...me first..okay-that describes brooks..

but I\'m still going with Bledsoe correlation.

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

:popcorn:

Think the Giants would trade Eli ..... ;)

Got a DE and a George type QB named Brooks ....






[Edited on 29/3/2005 by saintz08]

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

Man we only wish :casstet: I\'d take Eli in a second.

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

I never thought :censored: was as good as Jeff George...

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

But see Brooks\'s numbers are not accurate because he\'s always had a bad o-line, so he hasn\'t had time to check down.

Also, many of his passes were dropped by Donte\' Stallworth, Boo Williams, and Jerome Pathon. If they had caught those passes his numbers would be much different. They need to be more consistent.

Don\'t forget the running game...if the running game was more consistent, the recievers would catch more balls.

The fans need to stop booing so much too. That hurts his feelings. And NFL Primetime needs to stop showing his blooper ree...I mean highlight reels.

We need to just shut up and bask in his greatness because he is on pace to be the Saints all time best QB. It doesn\'t do us any good to show how little his stats actually mean. We should pay no attention to his OR Jeff George\'s stats, because this year is a new year for both of them. You never know...both of them may be Pro Bowl QBs this year!!!!

You read it here first!

[Edited on 29/3/2005 by GoldenTomb]

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

LMAO. :yourock:

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

I think the main difference between AB and George is that when AB throws an interception, he smiles about it. George, on the other hand, usually cusses the coach out about it. :D

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

Let\'s not forget that both guys are coach killers...

At this point, I\'d be happy to trade a DE and QB to San Diego for Rivers too, but Eli would be ideal.

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

I HATE Jeff George. WhoDat, you\'re right in that the league favors QBs now, but the Offenses that George played in were the most pass happy in the league at the time. (Even though I looked at the attempts and they are similar for the 2 guys.)
I am by no means an AB lover, but I would actually take Brooks over George regardless of what the numbers say. I just never liked the guy at all. At least AB has a winning smile.
:D

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

Or at least a .500 smile. :rollinglaugh:

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

:fanclub:

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

Very interesting, WhoDat.

I once did the same type of comparison for Archie Manning and Roger Staubach.

I would do it again, but I don\'t want to make Archie look that bad. ;)

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

Just for the fun of it ..... ;)

Any guesses as to who was the chosen Golden Boy under center for Mike Sheppard the last time he was an Offensive Coordinator ..... ;)

:pinkele:



[Edited on 29/3/2005 by saintz08]

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

I do-archie is overrated..he was good, but he wasn\'t all that saints fans turn him out to be...staubach..was the man...or was it all landry? who was a man among men.

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

I like the way Gumbo loves to bash Archie -- well here is a good question -- besides Gumbo I bet most would gladly take Archie in his prime versus AB. Gumbo -- you want to talk about poor teams -- dropped passes -- bad offensive lines -- no running game -- well except for the one cocaine year (Cocaine Chuck Muncie, Wes cokehound Chandler) AB is sitting on a veritable gold mine of talent. Archie was a class act -- a smart football player -- knew the game -- could read defenses and played on a team far worse than AB ever has -- Please don\'t even mention Archie in the same sentence as AB ---

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

I\'d probably take Archie in his prime over all but just a handful of NFL QB\'s that ever played.
How many QB\'s went 8-8, and got MVP?

I\'m not an AB hater but to mention AB with Archie is laughable.

Kinda like saying Kerry Collins was as good as John Elway.

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

1. herbert was better than AB..

2. what was the cocaine thing-i\'ve heard something about that..but not really all that sure.

3. I\'m predjudiced against archie manning..so take everything I say about him with a grain of salt. I think he was a good quarterback on a really bad team..but that was way before my time.

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

Well, since WhoDat clearly stated he just wanted to \"stir the pot\", I felt obliged to return the favor...LMAO!!

PS -- I watched Archie play for many years. The dude had some talent, but don\'t be mistaken. I saw Archie make some of the poorest decisions in the passing game you ever want to see.

Now, I can understandy why. He was just trying to compensate for the losy supporting cast he had.

Brooks, on the other hand, has a supporting cast that should be in the playoffs every year ... :casstet:

[Edited on 29/3/2005 by GumboBC]

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

1. Actually I would take Brooks over Hebert
2. There was one year that the Saints were strung out on cocaine (especially Chuck Muncie and Wes Chandler) When Archie was asked about it he stated \"If everyone was doing coke they didn\'t give me any\" While he was trying to say that as leader he would have known about it if it was so rpevalent it came out wrong and the headlines the next day stated \"Archie says -Where\'s my Line\". Pretty funny now
3. As a kid I saw Archie\'s first game as a Saint -- on the last play of the game he ran around end for a 2 yrd TD to win the game. The thinkg about him was he always played his heart out -- In college he broke his arm -- was supposed to sit out several of the last games of the season but played anyway -- That year plunkett won the Heisman with Archie and Joe Theisman real close.

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

Gumbo -- a reserved post -- you are correct -- Archie did make some bonehead plays -- but was on a team that would never make the playoffs -- your statement about Brooks was right on also -- just cannot believe that you would say it.

One more thing -- as was stated in an earlier post -- becoming league MVP when you are on an 8-8 team says a lot about his talent

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

You mean, it wasn\'t the WR\'s fault? Or the O-Line\'s? Of the RB\'s? Or the defense\'s? Or the coaches\'? Or the fans?

If there was ever a time to make the argument that a QB\'s team was holding him back, it was the Archie Manning days. Funny that you\'ll make that argument for Brooks, but not for Manning. I guess it\'s b/c of your personal feelings about the two guys - e.g. \"I equate the name Manning with the term Loser.\" LMAO.

Just stirring the pot Bill...

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

AB is not JG, as a matter of fact he is alot more talented than JG but maybe just maybe this year he will do better with alot less thinking to do in the offense. If they knew he had limitations in the beginning the should have played it that way.

and you know this probably was\'nt the coaches fault it was probably AB\'s for telling the coaches he could handle the play book. It\'s that male pride @@it I think.

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

You have to be kidding -- Jeff George had all of the talent anyone would ever ever want or need. His heart, attitude etc was his weakness. As a pure passer JG makes any QB in this league look like a rookie. The guy had an arm and was very very accurate. The only thing Brooks does better than JG is run. Other than that there is no comparison (And for the record -- while I admire the skills of George his attitude really blew) One more thing -- he was a top draft pick and played for a very bad Atlanta team -- whereas Brooks took over a playoff team

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

JG never won anything in the NFL and AB has that potential. AB has a stronger arm than JG and yes can run alot faster. Sometimes is not about how smart you are but how smart everyone around you is. JG picked the teams he played for not the other way around. I contend that JG is just like Marino, a good QB who\'s stats could have been accomplished by anyone with that same chance.

You stay long enough in one place and you will win, PERIOD. but Marino did not do it because he was just an average QB with average talent. JG did\'nt do it because he played for every team in the NFL and did not care about the team, only the paycheck.

Hey 4 how many QB\'s are ahead of JG\'s alltime stats? Check the facts first. Some very average dudes are ahead of JG on that list.

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

WHAAAAAAA.....

I can\'t believe you said that about Marino....an AVERAGE QB? Do you know how many other QBs with better supporting casts haven\'t come CLOSE to what Marino accomplished over his career??? Moreover....how could you say that Jeff George is ANYTHING like him??? Dan Marino played his career with the Dolphins, while George was a journeyman.

And what is this \"potential\" that AB has that George didn\'t have??? The only thing AB has going for him IMO is pure physical talent. Other than that.... :casstet:

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

OK Golden what did JG or DM win in their NFL careers, NOTHING!

I don\'t need to say anymore. Dan Marino had how many years with the phins to win and could not do it at least once. Anyone could have accomplished his records as long as they had a right arm attached to there body. He was a product of a system and nothing more.

JG was a joke, bust if you will!!!

No further discussion needed..

:soleil:

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

Hey Who, see what you got started!!!


:yourock:

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

I guess you are correct in saying that AB has a chance to win something -- but to say AB has more arm strength than George -- sorry -- and as for the average QBs with better stas -- since George (as proven in the first post of this thread) has much better stats than AB what does that say about AB. Also -- I did not say George was a good QB -- I said he had talent and could throw a ball you would not believe -- I use him to say that arm strength and accuracy is not the only things a QB needs -- he had them and still was a loser -- his heart and attitude sucked.

As for Marino -- I do not even know how to respond to your comment --were you joking -- must have been because Marino is a hall of famer and will always be considered one of the best QBs in the game.

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

OK I\'ll give you that....and Brooks can\'t even approach George\'s numbers with a better supporting cast and a \"stronger arm\" in your own words.

Doesn\'t say much for him, does it? :D

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

AB will win a superbowl, neither JG or DM were close and that ends the HOF discussion.

I think we put way to many players in the HOF. It used to be an elite faternity and now it\'s just whoever votes them in, should\'nt there be some criteria, I think so and Dan Marino would only get in because of the numbers not because he was a super QB.

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

That\'s not very fair. You\'re saying that a QB has to win a Super Bowl to get into the HOF??? Awww man....so you think that TRENT DILFER and KURT WARNER should be considered for the Hall before Marino. I\'ve heard it all now!!!
Stan Humphries should be in the Hall but Marino shouldn\'t....riiiiight.

Now do they actually have to win it or merely go to the Super Bowl????

What about RBs??

I guess Barry Sanders should be stripped of his Hall of Fame status, because he never got to the big one either. Put Natrone Means in his spot.

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

No, that is not what I am saying. I was justing making a general comment that too many players who really had no accomplishments other than longevity made it to the HOF.

I was only responding to your statement about DM and the HOF.

I also believe BS does\'nt deserve it. He quit after he thought he made enough yardage to enter the HOF. Jim Brown puts all other RB HOF\'s to shame, no question. That\'s not what it is for, it\'s for players that excel throughout their careers, not for anyone who thinks they have done enough and just QUIT!!!

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

Time out. So the argument here is that Jeff George never won anything, and therefore AB is a better QB? What the F has AB won? Oh, it\'s his POTENTIAL? George didn\'t have potential? C\'mon Cherm, I would expect a military man to do better than that. What are you, a tank gunner? Been rocked a few too many times? LOL. :D Kidding man.

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

I will say that it has nothing to do with winning the superbowl but everything to do with it?

If a QB played on a team and had no supporting cast like Archie that is one thing, but if the QB has a decent team, like DM than that would be different? Would you not agree. Longevity means nothing unless you play for 30 years.

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

Great comment on Brooks ..... ;)

His Game
Aaron isn\'t nearly as fast or elusive as his cousin Michael Vick, but he\'s no slouch when he takes off with the football. We\'re happy that Aaron cut down his interception total, but only Richard Hatch of \"Survivor\" fame has skipped balls off the grass more often than Brooks.

http://www.fanball.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm?pid=1076

As to the great arm strength debate , here is what it gets you ....

\"Why are you taking me out?\" George asked. \"I can win this game.\"

\"I know you can, but we\'re not moving the football,\" Marchibroda said.

It\'s really no different than his ending in Minnesota. George knows he can make enough throws to win a championship. But the losses and the lack of his development beyond just being a thrower has been his downfall.

Last week, George spoke out about being benched in the Redskins\' opener and said leadership is overrated.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/clayt...n/1255697.html

Great arm and a lack of leadership

Brooks is this eras Jeff George .... ;)

Brooks is Jeff George... or is he?
 

A comment like this and not even a chirp from Saintfan , guess the man has just come to accept it ..... ;)