Just one guys view

GumboBC · 03-31-2005, 12:03 PM

Over the past few years I've got to read many opinions on what's wrong with our Saints. It has always been interesting to me that we all watch the same games, yet ... the opinions about what's wrong have varied wildly.

Over the past few seasons my biggest problem with the Saints has been the DEFENSE. I've always felt, despite other problems, that the defense has been what's kept this team from reaching the playoffs.

Yet ... I read where so many fans "focus" on the offensive side of the ball. Particularly the QB. But, my point isn't Aaron Brooks.

The point is ... even though this team has had an assortment of problems over the years, the defense has always sucked.

Even the year when our offense was ranked in the top 5 we still missed the playoffs.

I might not be the shinniest apple in the barrel, but it's plain to me that, while the offense has put the defense in bad spots, the defense has failed our offense ten times worse.

And here we are again approaching a new season. I love to talk anything that's Saints' related. But, it's not the offense that I'm really worried about.

To me ... it all comes down to how much the defense will improve.

Maybe I'm just amazed that there's not more blame put on the defense. Maybe I'm just delusional and our defense hasn't been the problem at all.

I thought the 2003 defense played so horrible that fans would finally see the light. That really didn't happen, though. Instead, every week after a loss I got to read about how the offense failed our team. Oh boy!

But, as bad as the defense was in '03 ... it was twice as bad in '04. The defense finished 32nd out of 32-teams ! Was that enough to convince some fans, though? NOPE!! Some still wanted to concentrate on the offensive side of the ball.

I'm beginning to lose hope that some will see the light.

Then again ... maybe I'm the one that's delusional!

[Edited on 31/3/2005 by GumboBC]

baronm · 03-31-2005, 12:13 PM

I agree- the defense has stunk it up..but I also think that there is room for hope...we addressed our secondary and hopefully in the draft we will look at our linebackers-

lynwood · 03-31-2005, 12:18 PM

Over the past few years I\'ve got to read many opinions on what\'s wrong with our Saints. It has always been interesting to me that we all watch the same games, yet ... the opinions about what\'s wrong have varied wildly.

Over the past few seasons my biggest problem with the Saints has been the DEFENSE. I\'ve always felt, despite other problems, that the defense has been what\'s kept this team from reaching the playoffs.

Yet ... I read where so many fans \"focus\" on the offensive side of the ball. Particularly the QB. But, my point isn\'t Aaron Brooks.

The point is ... even though this team has had an assortment of problems over the years, the defense has always sucked.

Even the year when our offense was ranked in the top 5 we still missed the playoffs.

I might not be the shinniest apple in the barrel, but it\'s plain to me that, while the offense has but the defense in bad spots, the defense has failed our offense ten times worse.

And here we are again approaching a new season. I love to talk anything that\'s Saints\' related. But, it\'s not the offense that I\'m really worried about.

To me ... it all comes down to how much the defense will improve.

Maybe I\'m just amazed that there\'s not more blame put on the defense. Maybe I\'m just delusional and our defense hasn\'t been the problem at all.

I thought the 2003 defense played so horrible that fans would finally see the light. That really didn\'t happen, though. Instead, every week after a loss I got to read about how the offense failed our team. Oh boy!

But, as bad as the defense was in \'03 ... it was twice as bad in \'04. The defense finished 32nd out of 32-teams ! Was that enough to convince some fans, though? NOPE!! Some still wanted to concentrate on the offensive side of the ball.

I\'m beginning to lose hope that some will see the light.

Then again ... maybe I\'m the one that\'s delusional!

Yes you are delusional! Just kidding but you left yourself open.
We\'ve argued this point already. The defense was bad but the expectations of the offense wasn\'t to keep the defense (ours) on the field the entire first half of games. That is speaking just of last season. I wasn\'t worried about the offense last year before the season started but when they took a nose dive in the first half I really became concered.
You did admit that the offense put the defense in bad spots, but you should have used the word consistantly. The defense did blow some games for us but the offense sat out the first half of games.

FireVenturi · 03-31-2005, 12:29 PM

Gumbo, you are wasting your breath, its not like Defense wins championships or anything.LOL

Offense puts a$$e$ in the seats, and Defense wins championships. Bottom line. The Ravens Offense struggled as much as ours did and you don\'t see them at the bottom of the league in D, they was still top 5 in D.

Danno · 03-31-2005, 12:47 PM

Over the past few seasons my biggest problem with the Saints has been the DEFENSE. I\'ve always felt, despite other problems, that the defense has been what\'s kept this team from reaching the playoffs.

I\'d probably have to go with coaching first and foremost without question, particulary defensive coaching, then defensive talent, then offensive talent.

the defense has always sucked.

And people forget it also sucked when we had Glover, Johnson and Knight.

To me ... it all comes down to how much the defense will improve.

Once again, as was the case last year, if our defense was middle of the pack we\'d make the playoffs. The key is going to be SLB and WLB. Our only GLARING personnel weakness. The DT spot is certainly debateable, but out of Bryant/Young/Sullivan/Green/Leisle/Whitehead and whoever else we acquire, I think someone will step up and fill that void.
Allen and Bockwoldt scare the heck out of me. Both showed promise but neither showed enough to be trusted, and their back-ups wouldn\'t even make most rosters in this league. We have one good LB in Watson, and a serviceable back-up in Ruff, and a couple of promising yet questionable players in Allen and Bockwoldt, but after that it looks like a bunch of practice squad hacks and a retirement home.

Our offense is fine. As is it should finish upper 1/3. Our defense on the other hand has too many IF\'s at LB to make a huge jump.
Our defense can make a big jump IF our LB unit improves drastically. But that depends...
IF Bockwoldt gets stronger.
IF Allen truly gets the mental aspect of the game now.
IF Watson continues to progress.
IF we stay injury free.
IF we draft a LB (or two) ready to contribute immediately.
IF we can trade Howard for a quality LB.
IF Fisher is 100% recovered, he could help.
Thats a lot of IF\'s. But the good news is most of those IF\'s are more likely to happen than less likely.

baronm · 03-31-2005, 12:52 PM

Once again, as was the case last year, if our defense was middle of the pack we\'d make the playoffs. The key is going to be SLB and WLB. Our only GLARING personnel weakness. The DT spot is certainly debateable, but out of Bryant/Young/Sullivan/Green/Leisle/Whitehead and whoever else we acquire, I think someone will step up and fill that void.
Allen and Bockwoldt scare the heck out of me. Both showed promise but neither showed enough to be trusted, and their back-ups wouldn\'t even make most rosters in this league. We have one good LB in Watson, and a serviceable back-up in Ruff, and a couple of promising yet questionable players in Allen and Bockwoldt, but after that it looks like a bunch of practice squad hacks and a retirement home.

excatly why we should be drafting the heck out of Linebackers

GumboBC · 03-31-2005, 12:57 PM

I agree with Danno more times than not. And I agree with him for the most part here.

But ... not entirely.

I do agree that the talent on defense has been held back in large part due to Venturi. But at the same time, I don\'t feel like we\'ve had nearly enough talent on defense as we need.

As far as the outlook for the defense heading into this season? Again, I agree with much of what Danno says.

But, again ... not entirely.

I think of all the linebackers that the most pressure is going to be on Courtney Watson. The MLB is the run stuffer. Much more so than the WLB or SLB. And I also think it\'s the more difficult of all the LB positions.

While Watson might have more potential than Bockwoldt, he\'s playing a much more demading postion and therefore he might have a more difficult time.

[Edited on 31/3/2005 by GumboBC]

lynwood · 03-31-2005, 01:03 PM

If our defense does improve but our offense is not able to put points on the board till the 3rd quarter and we are trailing by a minimum of two touchdowns, I wouldn\'t expect the season to be any different than lasts, but I sincerly hope to be Proven wrong.

lumm0x · 03-31-2005, 01:10 PM

What stood out to me alot last year was that our defense played very well for 2 plays out of every series. It was like we knew exactly which play was going to be run and we defended it perfectly. Then on one of every three plays (in random order), some hit a magic button that turned our defense into vegetables and they looked lost and unable to execute.

I really couldn\'t believe what I would see. You could tell we had the talent to be a competetive defense. But once every couple of plays, something would happen and we\'d give up a huge play, miss an easy tackle, or take a stupid penalty. We could not stop a drive for the life of the team.

Consistency, focus and discipline is what the defense seemed to lack. I don\'t believe we had a failing system in place, nor the lack of athletic ability. All I ever hear about Venturi is what a great teacher he is. This is supposed to be his big strength. That just doesn\'t seem to be evident in the product he produces and I don\'t understand how he is still on this staff.

LKelley67 · 03-31-2005, 01:11 PM

32nd, dead last. and in the last 5 years the trend is going downhill. whatever reason venturi has been kept has to be a major issue in continued poor play since the talent level and performance has been quite varied and erratic in nature. i would have loved to have seen, as what i termed in another thread, an extreme makeover. i have noted before but must repeat that i love what the vikings have done. their m.o. has been much like the saints- high flying offense/no defense, skirting the edge of the playoffs. they now have the makings of a badass defense imo. they will have the opportunity to add still another vital component to it with 2 first round picks as well. in my extreme makeover thread i suggested moving brooks. i am not a brooks basher, he does have talent no matter how wildly inconsistent he is. my thought is not so much of him as a problem or fault but that the personality of the team needs changing. the same basic approach these past few years has not yielded the desired results is bottomline to me. i do not see a strong growth or trend either. i see the same: bad D, erratic play, looking like world beaters sometimes, then looking like a high school (LOL) at others. so if i was king, i would do like the vikings, shake it up and try a different formula. it is more a truth than axiom to me that defense wins championships. so? get some damn defense then. tweaking is not the answer when you have been getting worse and have reached bottom.

that said, i am a saints fan so i will always hope for the best. maybe there was some ongoing reality to the final four games of last season. maybe with dwight smith and a couple of good defensive draft picks they can be good enough to go from 32nd to 20-24th in defense. a veteran LB from moving howard would help more than anything to me. if so, and if deuce has a big year, if stallworth continues to progress, if devery can catch a few balls, if gandy and mayberry don\'t get too old too fast, if brooks can go another year without a major injury, then a playoff appearance could occur. when ya get there, ya never know what can happen.

03-31-2005, 12:03 PM	#1
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Just one guys view Over the past few years I've got to read many opinions on what's wrong with our Saints. It has always been interesting to me that we all watch the same games, yet ... the opinions about what's wrong have varied wildly. Over the past few seasons my biggest problem with the Saints has been the DEFENSE. I've always felt, despite other problems, that the defense has been what's kept this team from reaching the playoffs. Yet ... I read where so many fans "focus" on the offensive side of the ball. Particularly the QB. But, my point isn't Aaron Brooks. The point is ... even though this team has had an assortment of problems over the years, the defense has always sucked. Even the year when our offense was ranked in the top 5 we still missed the playoffs. I might not be the shinniest apple in the barrel, but it's plain to me that, while the offense has put the defense in bad spots, the defense has failed our offense ten times worse. And here we are again approaching a new season. I love to talk anything that's Saints' related. But, it's not the offense that I'm really worried about. To me ... it all comes down to how much the defense will improve. Maybe I'm just amazed that there's not more blame put on the defense. Maybe I'm just delusional and our defense hasn't been the problem at all. I thought the 2003 defense played so horrible that fans would finally see the light. That really didn't happen, though. Instead, every week after a loss I got to read about how the offense failed our team. Oh boy! But, as bad as the defense was in '03 ... it was twice as bad in '04. The defense finished 32nd out of 32-teams ! Was that enough to convince some fans, though? NOPE!! Some still wanted to concentrate on the offensive side of the ball. I'm beginning to lose hope that some will see the light. Then again ... maybe I'm the one that's delusional! [Edited on 31/3/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-31-2005, 12:13 PM	#2
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Just one guys view I agree- the defense has stunk it up..but I also think that there is room for hope...we addressed our secondary and hopefully in the draft we will look at our linebackers-
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

03-31-2005, 12:18 PM	#3
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	Just one guys view Over the past few years I\'ve got to read many opinions on what\'s wrong with our Saints. It has always been interesting to me that we all watch the same games, yet ... the opinions about what\'s wrong have varied wildly. Over the past few seasons my biggest problem with the Saints has been the DEFENSE. I\'ve always felt, despite other problems, that the defense has been what\'s kept this team from reaching the playoffs. Yet ... I read where so many fans \"focus\" on the offensive side of the ball. Particularly the QB. But, my point isn\'t Aaron Brooks. The point is ... even though this team has had an assortment of problems over the years, the defense has always sucked. Even the year when our offense was ranked in the top 5 we still missed the playoffs. I might not be the shinniest apple in the barrel, but it\'s plain to me that, while the offense has but the defense in bad spots, the defense has failed our offense ten times worse. And here we are again approaching a new season. I love to talk anything that\'s Saints\' related. But, it\'s not the offense that I\'m really worried about. To me ... it all comes down to how much the defense will improve. Maybe I\'m just amazed that there\'s not more blame put on the defense. Maybe I\'m just delusional and our defense hasn\'t been the problem at all. I thought the 2003 defense played so horrible that fans would finally see the light. That really didn\'t happen, though. Instead, every week after a loss I got to read about how the offense failed our team. Oh boy! But, as bad as the defense was in \'03 ... it was twice as bad in \'04. The defense finished 32nd out of 32-teams ! Was that enough to convince some fans, though? NOPE!! Some still wanted to concentrate on the offensive side of the ball. I\'m beginning to lose hope that some will see the light. Then again ... maybe I\'m the one that\'s delusional! Yes you are delusional! Just kidding but you left yourself open. We\'ve argued this point already. The defense was bad but the expectations of the offense wasn\'t to keep the defense (ours) on the field the entire first half of games. That is speaking just of last season. I wasn\'t worried about the offense last year before the season started but when they took a nose dive in the first half I really became concered. You did admit that the offense put the defense in bad spots, but you should have used the word consistantly. The defense did blow some games for us but the offense sat out the first half of games.

03-31-2005, 12:29 PM	#4
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	Just one guys view Gumbo, you are wasting your breath, its not like Defense wins championships or anything.LOL Offense puts a$$e$ in the seats, and Defense wins championships. Bottom line. The Ravens Offense struggled as much as ours did and you don\'t see them at the bottom of the league in D, they was still top 5 in D.

03-31-2005, 12:47 PM	#5
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Just one guys view Over the past few seasons my biggest problem with the Saints has been the DEFENSE. I\'ve always felt, despite other problems, that the defense has been what\'s kept this team from reaching the playoffs. I\'d probably have to go with coaching first and foremost without question, particulary defensive coaching, then defensive talent, then offensive talent. the defense has always sucked. And people forget it also sucked when we had Glover, Johnson and Knight. To me ... it all comes down to how much the defense will improve. Once again, as was the case last year, if our defense was middle of the pack we\'d make the playoffs. The key is going to be SLB and WLB. Our only GLARING personnel weakness. The DT spot is certainly debateable, but out of Bryant/Young/Sullivan/Green/Leisle/Whitehead and whoever else we acquire, I think someone will step up and fill that void. Allen and Bockwoldt scare the heck out of me. Both showed promise but neither showed enough to be trusted, and their back-ups wouldn\'t even make most rosters in this league. We have one good LB in Watson, and a serviceable back-up in Ruff, and a couple of promising yet questionable players in Allen and Bockwoldt, but after that it looks like a bunch of practice squad hacks and a retirement home. Our offense is fine. As is it should finish upper 1/3. Our defense on the other hand has too many IF\'s at LB to make a huge jump. Our defense can make a big jump IF our LB unit improves drastically. But that depends... IF Bockwoldt gets stronger. IF Allen truly gets the mental aspect of the game now. IF Watson continues to progress. IF we stay injury free. IF we draft a LB (or two) ready to contribute immediately. IF we can trade Howard for a quality LB. IF Fisher is 100% recovered, he could help. Thats a lot of IF\'s. But the good news is most of those IF\'s are more likely to happen than less likely.

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03-31-2005, 12:52 PM	#6
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Just one guys view Once again, as was the case last year, if our defense was middle of the pack we\'d make the playoffs. The key is going to be SLB and WLB. Our only GLARING personnel weakness. The DT spot is certainly debateable, but out of Bryant/Young/Sullivan/Green/Leisle/Whitehead and whoever else we acquire, I think someone will step up and fill that void. Allen and Bockwoldt scare the heck out of me. Both showed promise but neither showed enough to be trusted, and their back-ups wouldn\'t even make most rosters in this league. We have one good LB in Watson, and a serviceable back-up in Ruff, and a couple of promising yet questionable players in Allen and Bockwoldt, but after that it looks like a bunch of practice squad hacks and a retirement home. excatly why we should be drafting the heck out of Linebackers
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

03-31-2005, 12:57 PM	#7
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Just one guys view I agree with Danno more times than not. And I agree with him for the most part here. But ... not entirely. I do agree that the talent on defense has been held back in large part due to Venturi. But at the same time, I don\'t feel like we\'ve had nearly enough talent on defense as we need. As far as the outlook for the defense heading into this season? Again, I agree with much of what Danno says. But, again ... not entirely. I think of all the linebackers that the most pressure is going to be on Courtney Watson. The MLB is the run stuffer. Much more so than the WLB or SLB. And I also think it\'s the more difficult of all the LB positions. While Watson might have more potential than Bockwoldt, he\'s playing a much more demading postion and therefore he might have a more difficult time. [Edited on 31/3/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-31-2005, 01:03 PM	#8
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	Just one guys view If our defense does improve but our offense is not able to put points on the board till the 3rd quarter and we are trailing by a minimum of two touchdowns, I wouldn\'t expect the season to be any different than lasts, but I sincerly hope to be Proven wrong.

03-31-2005, 01:10 PM	#9
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Just one guys view What stood out to me alot last year was that our defense played very well for 2 plays out of every series. It was like we knew exactly which play was going to be run and we defended it perfectly. Then on one of every three plays (in random order), some hit a magic button that turned our defense into vegetables and they looked lost and unable to execute. I really couldn\'t believe what I would see. You could tell we had the talent to be a competetive defense. But once every couple of plays, something would happen and we\'d give up a huge play, miss an easy tackle, or take a stupid penalty. We could not stop a drive for the life of the team. Consistency, focus and discipline is what the defense seemed to lack. I don\'t believe we had a failing system in place, nor the lack of athletic ability. All I ever hear about Venturi is what a great teacher he is. This is supposed to be his big strength. That just doesn\'t seem to be evident in the product he produces and I don\'t understand how he is still on this staff.

03-31-2005, 01:11 PM	#10
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	Just one guys view 32nd, dead last. and in the last 5 years the trend is going downhill. whatever reason venturi has been kept has to be a major issue in continued poor play since the talent level and performance has been quite varied and erratic in nature. i would have loved to have seen, as what i termed in another thread, an extreme makeover. i have noted before but must repeat that i love what the vikings have done. their m.o. has been much like the saints- high flying offense/no defense, skirting the edge of the playoffs. they now have the makings of a badass defense imo. they will have the opportunity to add still another vital component to it with 2 first round picks as well. in my extreme makeover thread i suggested moving brooks. i am not a brooks basher, he does have talent no matter how wildly inconsistent he is. my thought is not so much of him as a problem or fault but that the personality of the team needs changing. the same basic approach these past few years has not yielded the desired results is bottomline to me. i do not see a strong growth or trend either. i see the same: bad D, erratic play, looking like world beaters sometimes, then looking like a high school (LOL) at others. so if i was king, i would do like the vikings, shake it up and try a different formula. it is more a truth than axiom to me that defense wins championships. so? get some damn defense then. tweaking is not the answer when you have been getting worse and have reached bottom. that said, i am a saints fan so i will always hope for the best. maybe there was some ongoing reality to the final four games of last season. maybe with dwight smith and a couple of good defensive draft picks they can be good enough to go from 32nd to 20-24th in defense. a veteran LB from moving howard would help more than anything to me. if so, and if deuce has a big year, if stallworth continues to progress, if devery can catch a few balls, if gandy and mayberry don\'t get too old too fast, if brooks can go another year without a major injury, then a playoff appearance could occur. when ya get there, ya never know what can happen.