Detroit

BuffordT · 02-06-2003, 07:10 PM

Why hasn\'t Monte Kiffin been given a shot? Has he not had the most dominating defense over the past, what three years? It all depends on each situation. You can\'t apply a set of fixed rules on variable situations. I think Lewis should have gotten a shot too, but.... Why wasn\'t he? Did he come off to the owners wrong, players, GM? We don\'t know, all we are left to think (by the NAACP) is that it was because he was a minority.
They look at this first and foremost, rather than other influences to reach their conclusions.

WhoDat · 02-06-2003, 07:31 PM

Kiffin was given a shot though. This year was the first year that he was available. I may not fully understand the procedures employed by the league, but I believe that another team cannot talk to a coordinator while he is under contract unless the team he is currently with gives the coordinator permission to talk to the other team. If that actually is the case, and you\'re the Bucs, do you let anyone talk to Kiffin? Of course not. In fact, they made him the highest paid coordinator this year so he wouldn\'t go and talk to the 9ers about becoming their head coach.

I agree that you must look at each situation individually. You\'re absolutely right on that. My point is that Marvin Lewis was available, what, two or possibly all three of the last three years and he finally got hired by the Bengals. Kiffin was available for one year and was going to talk to the 49ers about their opening before the Bucs made him the highest paid coordinator in the league. Could there be something about Marvin Lewis that rubbed owners the wrong way? Absolutely. Is it only that he\'s black? Of course not. But, given both of these situations one has to at least raise his eyebrows... wouldn\'t you all agree?

billyh1026 · 02-06-2003, 08:21 PM

Five minority candidates, turned down interview requests from the Lions because it appeared inevitable Mariucci would be hired.

They all forfieted their right to gripe about it right then.

In a league in which two-thirds of the players are minorities, how many minorities hired as head coaches are enough? Do we start firing people when the quota goes down? Gimme a break!!

People hire someone to run their business because they think they\'re the best person for the job. Not because they look good in a certain color tie.

The NFL is a bidness folks.

ScottyRo · 02-07-2003, 10:58 AM

Well gatorman, you get your wish. Here\'s a quote from an article on espn\'s website:

\"Rev. Jesse Jackson has demanded that the NFL investigate the hiring of Steve Mariucci, saying the Detroit Lions violated the league\'s policy....\"

What I find rediculous about this whole situation is the way Cochran\'s group and now Jackson use their press statements to imply something that really didn\'t happen. They say that the Lions\' organization - by basically annointing Mooch their head coach the moment he was available - refused to consider any minority candidates for the job. Which is only a half-truth. The Lions not only did not consider any minority candidates they did not consider any other candidates, majority or minority.

The Lions simply went after the only coach they wanted. In fact, the situation suggests that had Mooch not been fired by the 49ers, then Morningweg would have kept his job in Detroit for another year. Of course, Jackson and Cochran don\'t want to talk about reality . They only want to show you the situtation as they [want to] see it.

I want to say however, that I like the policy. I think that it is a good way to get owners to broaden the horizons a bit without forcing them to hire based on race. The facts suggest that the owners in this league, who are white, feel more comfortable hiring white GMs and white head coaches - in my opinion because the owners hire people who they already know and feel a bond with. By using this policy it will give the owners a chance to meet with someone who they otherwise might not have considered meeting and perhaps get that person a job.

It\'s just my little opinion.

BuffordT · 02-07-2003, 12:49 PM

Detroit Rock City! Had to do it

I wonder what the next feather in Jesse J\'s pimpin hat is. If he can force his agenda into football, is he going to start demanding that the head of Ford be black? GM? Coke?

Seriously, you may think that is silly, but what is the difference between forcing an issue on a football team and on a business? Not as much difference as you\'d think, especially with these jokers. Problem is, anytime that someone speaks out against them, they are automatically put into the \"Racist\" group. If you are white, you can\'t have a contrary opinion to a minority without getting the \"R\" word thrown on you.

These guys are doing more to hurt relations than help.

WhoDat · 02-07-2003, 01:50 PM

I think that\'s the point Gator. To crack the door that was otherwise locked.

ScottyRo · 02-07-2003, 02:09 PM

Some of the accusations flying from the Cochran/Mehri camp is that part of the problem in the NFL is the \"good-ol\'-boy system\" of hirings in the league. However, just this week we have a high-profile example of this type of system working in favor of a minority getting a good job in the NFL.

This example, of course, is Ray Rhodes, who was hired by his former Green Bay boss, Mike Holmgren. Rhodes is a great coach and may be able to help Seattle, but he got his job primarily because of his relationship with Holmgren. In fact, Rhodes got his last job with the Broncos because of his already existing relationship with Mike Shanahan. That si how things work in the NFL.

Doesn\'t this imply that the good-ol\'-boy system works just as well for blacks in the league as it does whites and that over time the disparity of white to black coaches will decrease? I think so.

I\'ll say again that I think the policy is good in that it gets blacks at the minimum an opportunity to get their names in the mix. That\'s at least a start. Hopefully, one day we\'ll look back on the past and remember these issues as distant memories. Just as we now look at \"taxation without representation\" and slavery as long forgotten troubles. I pray that it doesn\'t take as long.

02-06-2003, 07:10 PM	#11
BuffordT Rookie Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 23	Detroit Why hasn\'t Monte Kiffin been given a shot? Has he not had the most dominating defense over the past, what three years? It all depends on each situation. You can\'t apply a set of fixed rules on variable situations. I think Lewis should have gotten a shot too, but.... Why wasn\'t he? Did he come off to the owners wrong, players, GM? We don\'t know, all we are left to think (by the NAACP) is that it was because he was a minority. They look at this first and foremost, rather than other influences to reach their conclusions.
BuffordT Rookie Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 23

02-06-2003, 07:31 PM	#12
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Detroit Kiffin was given a shot though. This year was the first year that he was available. I may not fully understand the procedures employed by the league, but I believe that another team cannot talk to a coordinator while he is under contract unless the team he is currently with gives the coordinator permission to talk to the other team. If that actually is the case, and you\'re the Bucs, do you let anyone talk to Kiffin? Of course not. In fact, they made him the highest paid coordinator this year so he wouldn\'t go and talk to the 9ers about becoming their head coach. I agree that you must look at each situation individually. You\'re absolutely right on that. My point is that Marvin Lewis was available, what, two or possibly all three of the last three years and he finally got hired by the Bengals. Kiffin was available for one year and was going to talk to the 49ers about their opening before the Bucs made him the highest paid coordinator in the league. Could there be something about Marvin Lewis that rubbed owners the wrong way? Absolutely. Is it only that he\'s black? Of course not. But, given both of these situations one has to at least raise his eyebrows... wouldn\'t you all agree?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

02-06-2003, 08:21 PM	#13
billyh1026 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 213	Detroit Five minority candidates, turned down interview requests from the Lions because it appeared inevitable Mariucci would be hired. They all forfieted their right to gripe about it right then. In a league in which two-thirds of the players are minorities, how many minorities hired as head coaches are enough? Do we start firing people when the quota goes down? Gimme a break!! People hire someone to run their business because they think they\'re the best person for the job. Not because they look good in a certain color tie. The NFL is a bidness folks.
billyh1026 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 213

02-07-2003, 10:58 AM	#14
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Detroit Well gatorman, you get your wish. Here\'s a quote from an article on espn\'s website: \"Rev. Jesse Jackson has demanded that the NFL investigate the hiring of Steve Mariucci, saying the Detroit Lions violated the league\'s policy....\" What I find rediculous about this whole situation is the way Cochran\'s group and now Jackson use their press statements to imply something that really didn\'t happen. They say that the Lions\' organization - by basically annointing Mooch their head coach the moment he was available - refused to consider any minority candidates for the job. Which is only a half-truth. The Lions not only did not consider any minority candidates they did not consider any other candidates, majority or minority. The Lions simply went after the only coach they wanted. In fact, the situation suggests that had Mooch not been fired by the 49ers, then Morningweg would have kept his job in Detroit for another year. Of course, Jackson and Cochran don\'t want to talk about reality . They only want to show you the situtation as they [want to] see it. I want to say however, that I like the policy. I think that it is a good way to get owners to broaden the horizons a bit without forcing them to hire based on race. The facts suggest that the owners in this league, who are white, feel more comfortable hiring white GMs and white head coaches - in my opinion because the owners hire people who they already know and feel a bond with. By using this policy it will give the owners a chance to meet with someone who they otherwise might not have considered meeting and perhaps get that person a job. It\'s just my little opinion.

02-07-2003, 12:49 PM	#15
BuffordT Rookie Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 23	Detroit Detroit Rock City! Had to do it I wonder what the next feather in Jesse J\'s pimpin hat is. If he can force his agenda into football, is he going to start demanding that the head of Ford be black? GM? Coke? Seriously, you may think that is silly, but what is the difference between forcing an issue on a football team and on a business? Not as much difference as you\'d think, especially with these jokers. Problem is, anytime that someone speaks out against them, they are automatically put into the \"Racist\" group. If you are white, you can\'t have a contrary opinion to a minority without getting the \"R\" word thrown on you. These guys are doing more to hurt relations than help.
BuffordT Rookie Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 23

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02-07-2003, 01:50 PM	#16
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Detroit I think that\'s the point Gator. To crack the door that was otherwise locked.
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02-07-2003, 02:09 PM	#17
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Detroit Some of the accusations flying from the Cochran/Mehri camp is that part of the problem in the NFL is the \"good-ol\'-boy system\" of hirings in the league. However, just this week we have a high-profile example of this type of system working in favor of a minority getting a good job in the NFL. This example, of course, is Ray Rhodes, who was hired by his former Green Bay boss, Mike Holmgren. Rhodes is a great coach and may be able to help Seattle, but he got his job primarily because of his relationship with Holmgren. In fact, Rhodes got his last job with the Broncos because of his already existing relationship with Mike Shanahan. That si how things work in the NFL. Doesn\'t this imply that the good-ol\'-boy system works just as well for blacks in the league as it does whites and that over time the disparity of white to black coaches will decrease? I think so. I\'ll say again that I think the policy is good in that it gets blacks at the minimum an opportunity to get their names in the mix. That\'s at least a start. Hopefully, one day we\'ll look back on the past and remember these issues as distant memories. Just as we now look at \"taxation without representation\" and slavery as long forgotten troubles. I pray that it doesn\'t take as long.