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-   -   Payton need to go? (https://blackandgold.com/saints/84211-payton-need-go.html)

K Major 09-13-2017 10:50 AM
Re: Payton need to go?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 763900)
Watched the game again last night and confirmed play calling has got to be more patient with the run game - from a post earlier in the thread...

So the recipe for beating these physical defenses like the Vikings, Seahawks and Broncos is too pound them, running it right at their edge rushers...

And another thing I didn't see with the Ingram and Peterson runs was a lot of pull-zone blocking to open the field, instead trying to run at L. Joseph...
Someway the Saints must establish a running attack going forward.

Ingram, Peterson, Kamara etc ... there is no reason for us not to have a 90+ yard run game. Parcels always used to say that Payton was a bit too "pass happy". Run it down their collective throats ... even if it isn't working at first.

jeanpierre 09-13-2017 11:18 AM
Re: Payton need to go?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 763909)
Someway the Saints must establish a running attack going forward.

Ingram, Peterson, Kamara etc ... there is no reason for us not to have a 90+ yard run game. Parcels always used to say that Payton was a bit too "pass happy". Run it down their collective throats ... even if it isn't working at first.
And that's the thing, what do you define as working?

I would've considerd a lead of 6-3 as working just fine...

neugey 09-13-2017 11:18 AM
Re: Payton need to go?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 763901)
I don't understand why our offense didn't come out of the gates aggressive, we just passed every ball to the flats and expected to get a first down. Call some shots down the field man!!
It's so hard to tell with the way NFL broadcasts do their cameras. I honestly can't see anything 5 yards past the line of scrimmage unless the ball is thrown and the camera follows. Especially ESPN NFL broadcasts, they are like a QB peep show. So I can't tell when we are actually going deep, why our route concepts are not working against the Vikings D, and why our pass defense coverage is breaking down.

dizzle88 09-13-2017 11:22 AM
Re: Payton need to go?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 763911)
And that's the thing, what do you define as working?

I would've considerd a lead of 6-3 as working just fine...
It was working, the game was being managed and we all knew eventually that our offense would find a way.

What we didn't count on is the D having a random meltdown after they didn't play too badly to begin with.

Then Payton just confused himself, finally got an offensive drive going, only to settle for FG's.

dizzle88 09-13-2017 11:23 AM
Re: Payton need to go?
 
Watch this outstanding coverage by every Vikings defender and wish we had anything close to that

Papa Voodoo 09-13-2017 11:47 AM
Re: Payton need to go?
 
New England hung in with a lead and then got stomped. We did nearly the same. NE is going win and we are going to lose even though we essentially played the same? Let's watch and see what happens. Maybe we win and move onto Carolina with momentum.

skymike 09-13-2017 11:50 AM
Re: Payton need to go?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neugey (Post 763912)
It's so hard to tell with the way NFL broadcasts do their cameras. I honestly can't see anything 5 yards past the line of scrimmage unless the ball is thrown and the camera follows. Especially ESPN NFL broadcasts, they are like a QB peep show. So I can't tell when we are actually going deep, why our route concepts are not working against the Vikings D, and why our pass defense coverage is breaking down.
This is why you go to the dome and sit in the Terrace End Zone seats--- BEST SEATS there are, if you want to see the actual game!

saintfan 09-13-2017 12:36 PM
Re: Payton need to go?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah_Saint (Post 763834)
Last season, footballoutsiders rated the Saints with the best run blocking line in the league.



5th in the league in pass blocking.



FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2016 OFFENSIVE LINES


Well maybe that's why they're outsiders. Lol

Utah_Saint 09-13-2017 01:39 PM
Re: Payton need to go?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 763927)
Well maybe that's why they're outsiders. Lol
Yeah, maybe. :)

They're pretty good. They came up with the DVOA system (Defense-adjusted Value Over Average) that a lot of teams use in the offseason to figure out how bad a problem is.

Basically, when measuring how an offense performed, they don't value each defense the same. For example, if you threw for 300 yards against the Saints, it's not nearly as impressive as throwing for 300 against the Broncos, because just about everybody throws well against the Saints. They use what everybody else got passing against the Saints as the standard. So 250 against the Broncos defense might be better than 350 against the Saints defense.

saintfan 09-13-2017 01:47 PM
Re: Payton need to go?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah_Saint (Post 763932)
Yeah, maybe. :)

They're pretty good. They came up with the DVOA system (Defense-adjusted Value Over Average) that a lot of teams use in the offseason to figure out how bad a problem is.

Basically, when measuring how an offense performed, they don't value each defense the same. For example, if you threw for 300 yards against the Saints, it's not nearly as impressive as throwing for 300 against the Broncos, because just about everybody throws well against the Saints. They use what everybody else got passing against the Saints as the standard. So 250 against the Broncos defense might be better than 350 against the Saints defense.
I know. I'm not throwing rocks. It's just that I watch this team. We watch this team. We are not a good running team and haven't been in a long time. Personally I don't think it's the fault of any of our backs really - I mean we miss Deuce, but Mark Ingram is a good back - there have been others, we just don't run well overall.


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