New Orleans Saints Forums - blackandgold.com
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

New Orleans Saints Forums - blackandgold.com (https://blackandgold.com/community/)
-   Saints (https://blackandgold.com/saints/)
-   -   Somehow I don't think we are done (https://blackandgold.com/saints/84296-somehow-i-dont-think-we-done.html)

CheramieIII 09-19-2017 07:05 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skymike (Post 765083)
We are 0-0 in Division.
That and the fact that we're 0-2 are the only facts to this point in the season!

AsylumGuido 09-19-2017 07:12 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 765077)
That's good for you. Do what makes YOU feel good. I don't see anything wrong with you holding out hope, but if this is how he feels so be it. Either counter his argument with facts or be quiet. Simply attacking a poster for what they posted doesn't offer anything constructive. It just comes across as *****ing and complaining. The board is here for people to let out their frustrations. Allow him to be a member of the board and do what he needs to do to feel better. You're not going to change how he thinks or feels by simply complaining about how he thinks or feels. If you don't have anything constructive to offer about what he thinks then maybe you should not say anything.
LOL! You call that attacking? :rolleyes:

jeanpierre 09-19-2017 07:28 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 765078)
Bro you don't get to claim that the new coaches were the fix and then turn around and spin it to be they would have fixed it if they had been signed earlier.

No matter how anyone spins this the man at the top is SP. He gets the blame after this many season and now 50 games of failure.
Spike, spin? No. Fact is I had been arguing, posting that changes had to be made to the coaching staff (for my part, specifically it was Vitt). Payton's fault, clearly stated then and now, was his reluctance to make those changes.

Spike you've been so f*cking negative with your blinded lust that pound of flesh for the disappointment the team has given all of us, you can't separate the progress and growing pains that's been made from the Payton/Loomis' failures to act or their misguided failures from a lack of not looking at themselves...

The real problems with this team started when Payton won a Superbowl and everyone, and I mean everyone, threw out careful organizational checks and balances, threw him on their shoulders and exalted him the king-dictator...

The team and its fanbase is simply paying the price for that hubris and we have to wait while a man now has to share (give up) that authority across the franchise with new, competent people in the organization...

It may be that by season's end that Payton has to go, but don't tell me that the team hasn't been making better moves the past two years...

AsylumGuido 09-19-2017 07:47 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 765100)
Spike, spin? No. Fact is I had been arguing, posting that changes had to be made to the coaching staff (for my part, specifically it was Vitt). Payton's fault, clearly stated then and now, was his reluctance to make those changes.

Spike you've been so f*cking negative with your blinded lust that pound of flesh for the disappointment the team has given all of us, you can't separate the progress and growing pains that's been made from the Payton/Loomis' failures to act or their misguided failures from a lack of not looking at themselves...

The real problems with this team started when Payton won a Superbowl and everyone, and I mean everyone, threw out careful organizational checks and balances, threw him on their shoulders and exalted him the king-dictator...

The team and its fanbase is simply paying the price for that hubris and we have to wait while a man now has to share (give up) that authority across the franchise with new, competent people in the organization...

It may be that by season's end that Payton has to go, but don't tell me that the team hasn't been making better moves the past two years...
That is exactly what people are saying and based upon the fact that we lost two games that were perhaps our two most difficult all season. A bit reactionary, to say the least. I see the organization making strides in the right direction. Yesterday on NFL Radio Brady Quinn was talking about the Saints saying this very thing. He pointed out that he sees real improvement with the defense and that they faced two very difficult opponents right off the bat that they did not match up with well. He suggested patience saying that he expects much more out of the Saints before the season is over.

hagan714 09-19-2017 09:44 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neugey (Post 765008)
I disagree on the depth part. On paper, we actually have quite a bit of depth at all positions except OL and DT. Especially compared to recent years. By this time we are usually scouring the free agent pool for LB's and DB's.
I agree also and was referring to the bench we are seeing on the field now.

Papa Voodoo 09-19-2017 10:15 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
We can win the next 2 games and should win the next 2 games. Streif comes back and Snead...huge.

AsylumGuido 09-19-2017 10:34 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Voodoo (Post 765115)
We can win the next 2 games and should win the next 2 games. Streif comes back and Snead...huge.
Armstead should be getting close to a return, as well.

NOLA54 09-19-2017 11:54 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Sounds like someone is in denial. I saw nothing that tells me this can be fixed with the current coaching & GM status. The offense looks flat & the defense has given up over 1,000 yards in 2 games.

K Major 09-19-2017 12:04 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 765068)
Consider if Sean Payton, three years ago, would have fired Vitt, Johnson, McMahon?

Is the coaching stafff better than it was three ago?

Consider our defensive line, linebackers, cornerbacks, are they better deeper than three years ago?

Is the personnel better than it was three years ago?

Consider our kicking game, specifically our placekicker...

Is that position better than it was three years ago?

Look, many of these changes were looooong overdue, Payton was slow to do them and only having been the only guy to deliver a Lombardi and a 92yo owner gave him that time...

You've responded, liked/disliked my posts as much as anyone and you know how critical I've been of Payton the GM, Loomis the YesMan, and the Front Office needing to restructure...

So things like extended Nick Fairley without a more intense cardio workup with knowledge of him having cardio anomalies...

And the Saints Front Office and Payton acknowledged they screwed up and it's saved a life - Jon Dorenbos...

There's two (2) things that I'd say I'd be critical of at this point that Payton needs to address, and quickly if he's to save this season, and likely his job...

First, he's got to make a decision by the BYE week if D.A. is his man or if it's time to move on; don't think Payton didn't bring in Mike Nolan just to coach LBers - he's the backup plan...

Second, we screwed up shifting every two years between schemes, and I'm not sold on Rankins (Hicks, now with Chicago looks better)...

It may be time to put Rankins in a part-time role (like Fairley) and rotate those D-Lineman, giving them all a chance to eat, and be fresh for for 4 quarters...

We may just have to let Payton and this team regurgitate the remnant poor play and poor decision making to get that groove back...

And though the losses were embarrassing, they weren't against division foes, so lets let the first quarter of the season play out...[/B]
Fair enough brother :bng:.

jeanpierre 09-19-2017 03:10 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skymike (Post 765083)
We are 0-0 in Division.
Exactly. Look, those first two games smell of some real bad North Korean Kimchi...

But, we're not out of this and have the pieces to get it turned around, and get healthy...

BusDriver 09-19-2017 03:18 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
What if....we go from 0-2 to 2-2 and finish 12-4? I know I know, pipe dream but it's what I have to hope for this week. lol

AsylumGuido 09-19-2017 03:50 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 765185)
Exactly. Look, those first two games smell of some real bad North Korean Kimchi...

But, we're not out of this and have the pieces to get it turned around, and get healthy...
Not to mention I have that $20 Saints to win the title ticket from Bally's in Vegas in my safe.

70-1, Baby!

AsylumGuido 09-19-2017 03:51 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusDriver (Post 765186)
What if....we go from 0-2 to 2-2 and finish 12-4? I know I know, pipe dream but it's what I have to hope for this week. lol
I think that is very possible, Bus.

jnormand 09-19-2017 03:55 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 765190)
I think that is very possible, Bus.
I'm not usually a negative guy. But I really wish I shared your optimism. I just don't see anything indicating a winning season right now. Nothing. Hope I'm wrong.

jnormand 09-19-2017 04:37 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 765100)
Spike, spin? No. Fact is I had been arguing, posting that changes had to be made to the coaching staff (for my part, specifically it was Vitt). Payton's fault, clearly stated then and now, was his reluctance to make those changes.

Spike you've been so f*cking negative with your blinded lust that pound of flesh for the disappointment the team has given all of us, you can't separate the progress and growing pains that's been made from the Payton/Loomis' failures to act or their misguided failures from a lack of not looking at themselves...

The real problems with this team started when Payton won a Superbowl and everyone, and I mean everyone, threw out careful organizational checks and balances, threw him on their shoulders and exalted him the king-dictator...

The team and its fanbase is simply paying the price for that hubris and we have to wait while a man now has to share (give up) that authority across the franchise with new, competent people in the organization...

It may be that by season's end that Payton has to go, but don't tell me that the team hasn't been making better moves the past two years...
While I don't share the same disdain for SP as Spike. Or the hope that we tank the season so he is fired or even the thought of moving on from Brees. I can certainly sympathize with his negativity and frustration. After 3 straight 7-9 seasons, the Saints open up this season at 0-2. Not close losses. They were flat, disorganized, uninspired and uncompetitive.

I think some people are tired of waiting until next year.

Do I think there has been some improvements? Absolutely. The ones you named were great examples. And I'm sure there's more. But unfortunately, the bad outweighs the good at this point in the season. The defense has given up a ton of yardage and is pace to break it's own record. And the offense has been a bit stagnant and can't seem to score inside the red-zone.

I used to get pissed when all I heard was negativity regarding our team. I don't right now because I think the product on the field warrants the complaints.

I certainly hope that the team turns it around and SP finds a way to get back to winning. Until then, there isn't much to be positive about. The only thing I'm positive about is that I'm positive this team has underwhelmed and underperformed, and people are tired of it.

And yes, I know what the team used to be. I've been a fan for almost 40 years and I've seen a lot of losing. But the expectation is higher now for SP and the Saints.

Find a way to win!

K Major 09-19-2017 04:49 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnormand (Post 765203)
Find a way to win!
Yes sir.

AsylumGuido 09-19-2017 05:31 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnormand (Post 765203)
While I don't share the same disdain for SP as Spike. Or the hope that we tank the season so he is fired or even the thought of moving on from Brees. I can certainly sympathize with his negativity and frustration. After 3 straight 7-9 seasons, the Saints open up this season at 0-2. Not close losses. They were flat, disorganized, uninspired and uncompetitive.

I think some people are tired of waiting until next year.

Do I think there has been some improvements? Absolutely. The ones you named were great examples. And I'm sure there's more. But unfortunately, the bad outweighs the good at this point in the season. The defense has given up a ton of yardage and is pace to break it's own record. And the offense has been a bit stagnant and can't seem to score inside the red-zone.

I used to get pissed when all I heard was negativity regarding our team. I don't right now because I think the product on the field warrants the complaints.

I certainly hope that the team turns it around and SP finds a way to get back to winning. Until then, there isn't much to be positive about. The only thing I'm positive about is that I'm positive this team has underwhelmed and underperformed, and people are tired of it.

And yes, I know what the team used to be. I've been a fan for almost 40 years and I've seen a lot of losing. But the expectation is higher now for SP and the Saints.

Find a way to win!
I'm not waiting until next year. We are two games into 16 having faced perhaps our two toughest opponents.

jeanpierre 09-19-2017 05:45 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnormand (Post 765203)
While I don't share the same disdain for SP as Spike. Or the hope that we tank the season so he is fired or even the thought of moving on from Brees. I can certainly sympathize with his negativity and frustration. After 3 straight 7-9 seasons, the Saints open up this season at 0-2. Not close losses. They were flat, disorganized, uninspired and uncompetitive.

I think some people are tired of waiting until next year.

Do I think there has been some improvements? Absolutely. The ones you named were great examples. And I'm sure there's more. But unfortunately, the bad outweighs the good at this point in the season. The defense has given up a ton of yardage and is pace to break it's own record. And the offense has been a bit stagnant and can't seem to score inside the red-zone.

I used to get pissed when all I heard was negativity regarding our team. I don't right now because I think the product on the field warrants the complaints.

I certainly hope that the team turns it around and SP finds a way to get back to winning. Until then, there isn't much to be positive about. The only thing I'm positive about is that I'm positive this team has underwhelmed and underperformed, and people are tired of it.

And yes, I know what the team used to be. I've been a fan for almost 40 years and I've seen a lot of losing. But the expectation is higher now for SP and the Saints.

Find a way to win!
Great Post. But there's one other consideration I'd like to throw out to everyone to factor...

By no means is it an excuse for all the other facets of the team that have gotten off to such a rough start, but...

For the second year in a row, our No. 6 cornerback, Harris, is logging extensive minutes for us and has been the obvious target for Brady and Bradford...

So we can have some optimism that CB play will improve dramatically when reinforcements get back from the hot tub...

Utah_Saint 09-19-2017 05:54 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 765230)
Great Post. But there's one other consideration I'd like to throw out to everyone to factor...

By no means is it an excuse for all the other facets of the team that have gotten off to such a rough start, but...

For the second year in a row, our No. 6 cornerback, Harris, is logging extensive minutes for us and has been the obvious target for Brady and Bradford...

So we can have some optimism that CB play will improve dramatically when reinforcements get back from the hot tub...
The same can be said for the offense. Not too many teams can withstand the loss of both starting tackles at the same time.

The question is, will the season be lost by the time these guys get back on the field?

AsylumGuido 09-19-2017 08:17 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah_Saint (Post 765236)
The same can be said for the offense. Not too many teams can withstand the loss of both starting tackles at the same time.

The question is, will the season be lost by the time these guys get back on the field?
According to some all is already lost. The season is over. We are horrible. Why even watch? Fire everyone. Hope that Benson dies, perhaps, so things get better. We'll get killed every week. Worst ever.

Why watch? Go somewhere else and pick frickin' daisies.

I am here to battle with my team every week.

Not pointing this to you, Utah. Just sayin'

Sad state of affairs with sad fans.

jnormand 09-20-2017 01:31 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 765295)
According to some all is already lost. The season is over. We are horrible. Why even watch? Fire everyone. Hope that Benson dies, perhaps, so things get better. We'll get killed every week. Worst ever.

Why watch? Go somewhere else and pick frickin' daisies.

I am here to battle with my team every week.

Not pointing this to you, Utah. Just sayin'

Sad state of affairs with sad fans.
I won't knock you for your hope. I'm the same way. I'm simply saying there's no reason to hammer others who've lost some hope after these last two games. They were terrible. To say anything more is ridiculous.

But I sincerely hope this team gets it together. Because right now they look like ****. Again, to say anything else is ridiculous.

jnormand 09-20-2017 01:40 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 765223)
I'm not waiting until next year. We are two games into 16 having faced perhaps our two toughest opponents.
I honestly feel that the toughest opponent for the Saints is the Saints.

They have the talent to beat anyone and have come up short.

They have lost their way. Be it by coaching, players, scheme, or whatever.

They have to find a way to stop beating themselves and start playing good football again. Injuries and bad luck don't effect good teams.

Let's hope they find that spark this week.

jeanpierre 09-20-2017 04:52 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnormand (Post 765323)
I honestly feel that the toughest opponent for the Saints is the Saints.
No one has done more to defeat the on-field genius of Sean Payton more than Sean Payton the General Manager...

neugey 09-20-2017 05:52 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnormand (Post 765323)
I honestly feel that the toughest opponent for the Saints is the Saints.

They have the talent to beat anyone and have come up short.

They have lost their way. Be it by coaching, players, scheme, or whatever.

They have to find a way to stop beating themselves and start playing good football again. Injuries and bad luck don't effect good teams.

Let's hope they find that spark this week.
The Saints of old would have at least mounted a comeback in at least one of these last two games. May not have won it but would have went out with a bang, not a whimper. The Pats finished the game with 1 healthy WR and 1 healthy TE and we can't get back into the game? Seriously?

Rugby Saint II 09-20-2017 02:12 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 765336)
No one has done more to defeat the on-field genius of Sean Payton more than Sean Payton the General Manager...

Loomis hasn't done him any favors either. To me the GM is the real weak link here. We need a knowledgeable football GM......not an accountant running the show.

QBREES9 09-20-2017 02:53 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
We're not done!!!!!

jeanpierre 09-21-2017 04:37 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 764937)
JP,

With all due respect, it's been 3+ years (see record) of sub par play performances, not just the first two nationally televised games. This team has been bad for a while.
I know what the records have been (boy, do I know) but how many games did we lose on one play, sometimes the last play, last year?

Oakland? Denver? NY Giants? KC? @Carolina? We're easily 12-3...

That secondary just kept giving up those 3rd and obscenely long plays...

Or some questionable refereeing that we can't let games get that close...

The improvement is there...

Payton made a critical mistake this pre-season - with all the new parts, he should have been playing the 1's for at least a full quarter to develop the rhythm and chemistry not only on defense but offense as well...

K Major 09-21-2017 04:48 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
I want to believe JP but boy ..

Carolina front 7 is stout, Miami front 7 is stout, opposing QB's avg ratings over 125.5 in two games, etc.
9-7 may not be enough (playoffs) ... the NFC division as a whole is looking strong.

No excuses ... beating Carolina on Sunday is a MUST.

AsylumGuido 09-21-2017 05:06 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 765628)
I want to believe JP but boy ..

Carolina front 7 is stout, Miami front 7 is stout, opposing QB's avg ratings over 125.5 in two games, etc.
9-7 may not be enough (playoffs) ... the NFC division as a whole is looking strong.

No excuses ... beating Carolina on Sunday is a MUST.
Opposing QB's were pretty damned good the first two games. We have an extremely young team. They'll improve with experience.

Utah_Saint 09-21-2017 10:51 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 765628)
I want to believe JP but boy ..

Carolina front 7 is stout, Miami front 7 is stout, opposing QB's avg ratings over 125.5 in two games, etc.
9-7 may not be enough (playoffs) ... the NFC division as a whole is looking strong.

No excuses ... beating Carolina on Sunday is a MUST.
I can't blame Payton for the offensive line play so far this season. Losing both starting tackles would hurt any team and devastate most.

blackangold 09-21-2017 11:00 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by QBREES9 (Post 765482)
We're not done!!!!!
We are though...

We will lose to CAR then bounce back to 3-3... Only to finish the season at 7-9 or 6-10.

Time to move on...

The Dude 09-22-2017 12:03 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 765629)
Opposing QB's were pretty damned good the first two games. We have an extremely young team. They'll improve with experience.
Maybe by next year. No way this **** show improves enough to be a contender for even a wild card. Season is done. I will still watch and listen every week but my focus will be more on players, not weather or not the team loses. I will look for the players who will make more of an impact next year as well as who needs to go. There is still fun in the game but we won't go over 500
Brees no longer has what it takes to carry the team anymore and he has less help along the offensive line. Our defense and running game were supposed to take some of the load off him and they have failed.

skymike 09-22-2017 05:34 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 765650)
Brees no longer has what it takes to carry the team anymore
if he could stand for more than 2.5 seconds, he could carry the team.

AsylumGuido 09-22-2017 07:51 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skymike (Post 765659)
if he could stand for more than 2.5 seconds, he could carry the team.
A second full week with the O-line working together will help this week. Getting Armstead back most likely after the week 5 bye will help even more. And Strief should be getting close to returning very soon thereafter.

AsylumGuido 09-22-2017 07:53 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackangold (Post 765649)
We are though...

We will lose to CAR then bounce back to 3-3... Only to finish the season at 7-9 or 6-10.

Time to move on...
If we are sitting at 3-3 after six we have a decent shot of winning eight of the last ten and going 11-5. Time to move on to the playoffs.

vpheughan 09-23-2017 01:08 PM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
"Over?" "It's not over till we say it's over!" "When the Germans.........."

billyt81 10-20-2017 04:34 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 764935)
No, we're seeing better use of the draft with more and more of the draft being turned over to Ireland...

We're seeing much better drafts than we were three, four, five years ago...

Does the team still need organizational change, no doubt; but we've got better talent and better coaching than we had three years ago...

But things are transitioning and while emotions are rightfully running high after two nationally televised embarrassments, things are going to get better...
Ok. Impressive post I just reread. How did you know this? I feel great about the Saints literally every year. Im always convinced our offseason moves(even though I usually disagree with em) are gonna put us in the bowl. But seeing what the D did in the first couple weeks, I admit it looked familiar and I was writing us off. Try out for First Take JP.

AsylumGuido 10-20-2017 07:34 AM
Re: Somehow I don't think we are done
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 765650)
Maybe by next year. No way this **** show improves enough to be a contender for even a wild card. Season is done. I will still watch and listen every week but my focus will be more on players, not weather or not the team loses. I will look for the players who will make more of an impact next year as well as who needs to go. There is still fun in the game but we won't go over 500
Brees no longer has what it takes to carry the team anymore and he has less help along the offensive line. Our defense and running game were supposed to take some of the load off him and they have failed.
Bet you are happy you were as wrong as you were. Right?

;)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:54 PM.
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page


Copyright 1997 - 2020 - BlackandGold.com