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-   -   It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees (https://blackandgold.com/saints/84297-its-time-saints-move-sean-payton-drew-brees.html)

dizzle88 09-19-2017 07:08 AM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 765090)
I agree and I too liked the Curtis signing again and I was glad we let go Vitt. I guess the point I am trying to make is that at some point we cannot keep firing everyone else. Spags went on to be successful again in NY. RR was a terrible signing then and now. DA I had hopes for, but at some point we just can't keep blaming everyone except SP (And I recognize you're not doing that). You're right, it has the feel he has lost the team. When you keep churning the same product year in and year out the HC has to be to blame. How many years does it take to rebuild to become at the very least competitive. We look the same as we have for what is now the fourth year. Matter of fact we look worse this year than last. At least so far. I am sure we will string together some wins and old 7-9 will get us back to his sweet spot and next year it will be cycle and repeat.

I'd rather see what someone else can do. 7-9 and no playoffs is no worse than 3-13 and no playoffs.
Any time we've called for SP to be fired the excuses come flying up.
One of the excuses was "who else is there?"

Which once again I'll turn to Oakland for my example, Jack Del rio did sweet f-all in Jacksonville for years due to management that kept his responsibilities in check.

Sean Payton has been given free reign to do whatever he wants and for results, look at the last 4 years.

Now Del Rio went to Oakland, formed a defensive that relies on front 4 pressure centered around Kalil Mack and has Derek Carr who is going to be a stud for years to come.

Now Del Rio has been in Oakland for 3 years I believe, he has turned them from a 3 win a year organisation, to a top 5 team and perennial playoff team.

All that in the time we have continually gone 7-9 and been unable to stop tripping over our own feet.

My main point is, when Oakland signed Del Rio, many fans thought "he wasn't that good in Jacksonville" and look what happened.

No one is irreplaceable, especially Payton.

neugey 09-19-2017 07:17 AM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 765093)
Any time we've called for SP to be fired the excuses come flying up.
One of the excuses was "who else is there?"
Right. I feel like for 3-4 years we resisted firing Payton out of fear. Fear that he would go to another team and be great for someone else.

Decisions made primarily out of fear usually aren't good ones.

AsylumGuido 09-19-2017 07:31 AM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 765080)
that would have been the best suited trading partner prior to Watson. I think they're dug in
Brees has a no trade clause in his contract. The Saints will be the last team he will ever play for. He has stressed that on numerous occasions.

neugey 09-19-2017 09:29 AM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 765101)
Brees has a no trade clause in his contract. The Saints will be the last team he will ever play for. He has stressed that on numerous occasions.
Thanks for pointing that out.

I also think the 'Brees doesn't want to go through a rebuild' narrative is a little presumptuous. Changing coaches is hardly a death sentence. The last two times we did it, we made the playoffs. Brees is loyal to Payton/Loomis but he also knows the NFL is a business. The rest of team needs and would benefit from his continued leadership.

Mardigras9 09-19-2017 09:37 AM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Move on from Drew Brees, LOL, whatever.

hagan714 09-19-2017 09:39 AM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
wait till game 8 before burning down the house

burningmetal 09-19-2017 10:39 AM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 765090)
I agree and I too liked the Curtis signing again and I was glad we let go Vitt. I guess the point I am trying to make is that at some point we cannot keep firing everyone else. Spags went on to be successful again in NY. RR was a terrible signing then and now. DA I had hopes for, but at some point we just can't keep blaming everyone except SP (And I recognize you're not doing that). You're right, it has the feel he has lost the team. When you keep churning the same product year in and year out the HC has to be to blame. How many years does it take to rebuild to become at the very least competitive. We look the same as we have for what is now the fourth year. Matter of fact we look worse this year than last. At least so far. I am sure we will string together some wins and old 7-9 will get us back to his sweet spot and next year it will be cycle and repeat.

I'd rather see what someone else can do. 7-9 and no playoffs is no worse than 3-13 and no playoffs.
Agreed. Payton and Loomis are the common denominator, as far as I see it, and not much else is likely to work with them in place, given how things have been.

I do think we needed to make the changes we've made, and that DA is not the answer for our defense, but in order to get the right people in place and reinstate the kind of institutional control that you need to have to run a successful organization, it has to start at the top. No question.

RaginCajun83 09-19-2017 12:03 PM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 764927)
Don't cut bait. We've got new leadership throughout this team. Our new additions have all been beneficial. Whether they are coaches, players or front office. It's a new team that needs time to become a collective unit.

I believe that Payton needs to be reigned in and let Loomis be an accountant and have a real football GM.
They hired Ireland to be the talent evaluator role of GM

73Saint 09-19-2017 12:35 PM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 (Post 765128)
They hired Ireland to be the talent evaluator role of GM
Not to derail the thread, but you just indirectly pointed out our biggest problem. What we need is a COACHING talent evaluator. Where can we get one of them?

K Major 09-19-2017 12:54 PM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73Saint (Post 765132)
Not to derail the thread, but you just indirectly pointed out our biggest problem. What we need is a COACHING talent evaluator. Where can we get one of them?
Omar Khan.

He's a smart guy (Tulane educated), home grown and has a solid track record.

jeanpierre 09-19-2017 01:27 PM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 765141)
Omar Khan.

He's a smart guy (Tulane educated), home grown and has a solid track record.
Meh, those were some awful drafts under Mike Ditka and Jim Haslett; and I'm not so sure Omar hasn't benefited from the scenery more than his own making...

We do some tweaking with reducing Payton's GM authority, make Jeff Ireland the GM, hell, bring Parcells in as Team President if that's what it takes...

spkb25 09-19-2017 04:37 PM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skymike (Post 765076)
I live in Houston, so I know a little, not much about the Texans, but the Texans would would all give Brees their body parts to join this team, because they're one of about 20 or so teams that has everything else BUT a great QB.

I guess some of you are too young to remember what its like to have a great rest-of-the-team-even-a-great kicker, but at QB, have an Aaron Brooks or a Jim Everett or a Dave Wilson or some assorted Billy Joes.

Drew Brees'es dont grow on trees, people.

Even a guy named Bobby Hebert, (who was actually one of our 2** best pre-Brees QBs*** ) agrees with me.

It would be CRAZY to unload Drew Brees.

** Somewhere, on our board, there could be some millenial kid, playing with his phone, who doesnt know the name ARCHIE. Dont laugh. 60% of America cant name 3 branches of govt.

*** Bobby was actually pretty damn good, and tough as nails. Dont be hatin, fellow old guys. You were screamin for them to put him in, when we had Dave Wilson, so put a sock in it. And we all felt like we had a chance, when Bobby was in there. Did you feel like that with Richard Todd? Yeah, ok I thought Todd would do it for us too. nevermind. But he was 10X better than Stabler- so simma down now !

Dude do not get it twisted, I know how good Drew is. He may end up leading the NFL in pass yards all time. He is going to the hall fo fame first ballot. I think what people are saying is we need to rebuild this team. We aren't winning with drew. We may never have another drew brees, but you can apparently win in the nfl without a drew brees at the helm.

spkb25 09-19-2017 04:38 PM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 765163)
.

We do some tweaking with reducing Payton's GM authority, make Jeff Ireland the GM, hell, bring Parcells in as Team President if that's what it takes...
For what purpose?

spkb25 09-19-2017 04:40 PM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 765101)
Brees has a no trade clause in his contract. The Saints will be the last team he will ever play for. He has stressed that on numerous occasions.
That's good, every athlete says **** like that.

SmashMouth 09-21-2017 04:07 PM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKMKKz5VwAAwYC8.jpg

AsylumGuido 09-21-2017 04:36 PM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 765206)
That's good, every athlete says **** like that.
Brees isn't "every athlete," in case you haven't noticed. I believe him when he says he plans to retire as a Saint. That's a big reason why he wants to continue with year to year contracts.

WillSaints81 09-22-2017 02:31 PM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 764927)
Don't cut bait. We've got new leadership throughout this team. Our new additions have all been beneficial. Whether they are coaches, players or front office. It's a new team that needs time to become a collective unit.

I believe that Payton needs to be reigned in and let Loomis be an accountant and have a real football GM.
No GM wants to feel like he has less power than a HC.

WillSaints81 09-22-2017 02:48 PM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 765620)
No, we need a up-and-comer, not some recycled coach who has been out of the league for some time.

ChrisXVI 09-22-2017 03:49 PM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Maybe we shouldn't have kicked Rita out of the organization if she was the only one willing to challenge Payton.

neugey 09-22-2017 04:40 PM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashMouth (Post 765620)
No thanks. Sean Payton already has me terrified.

WhoDat!656 09-22-2017 05:09 PM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 765204)
Dude do not get it twisted, I know how good Drew is. He may end up leading the NFL in pass yards all time. He is going to the hall fo fame first ballot. I think what people are saying is we need to rebuild this team. We aren't winning with drew. We may never have another drew brees, but you can apparently win in the nfl without a drew brees at the helm.
We aren't winning WITH Drew, but we sure as hell aren't losing BECAUSE of him!

Brees only going to one Super Bowl with the Saints should be cause for tremendous shame for the organization.

vpheughan 09-23-2017 01:03 PM
Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees
 
Ignore Gruden's .540 career winning percentage!! He coached "Brettttt Favvvvvre!"


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