It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees

skymike · 09-19-2017, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by neugey

The odds of finding a trade partner for Brees is low anyway. The only team that seems like they are a QB away from a deep playoff run is Denver. Brees is in the last year of his contract, so a bad team that needs a QB like the Jets is not going to trade for him when they know they will probably lose him in FA anyway the next offseason.

I live in Houston, so I know a little, not much about the Texans, but the Texans would would all give Brees their body parts to join this team, because they're one of about 20 or so teams that has everything else BUT a great QB.

I guess some of you are too young to remember what its like to have a great rest-of-the-team-even-a-great kicker, but at QB, have an Aaron Brooks or a Jim Everett or a Dave Wilson or some assorted Billy Joes.

Drew Brees'es dont grow on trees, people.

Even a guy named Bobby Hebert, (who was actually one of our 2** best pre-Brees QBs*** ) agrees with me.

It would be CRAZY to unload Drew Brees.

** Somewhere, on our board, there could be some millenial kid, playing with his phone, who doesnt know the name ARCHIE. Dont laugh. 60% of America cant name 3 branches of govt.

*** Bobby was actually pretty damn good, and tough as nails. Dont be hatin, fellow old guys. You were screamin for them to put him in, when we had Dave Wilson, so put a sock in it. And we all felt like we had a chance, when Bobby was in there. Did you feel like that with Richard Todd? Yeah, ok I thought Todd would do it for us too. nevermind. But he was 10X better than Stabler- so simma down now !

burningmetal · 09-19-2017, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

I have no idea what Benson will do, but he definitely is or appears not to be in the frame of mind to do what needs doing. I am holding out for a 3 win season if we are going to miss the playoffs again. At least maybe we finally fire SP.

That said, please stop with the fire DA threads. Jesus H Christ...how many people have to be laid out to the alter for SP? We just remade our entire defensive coaching unit to which 90% or more on this board swore was the answer. It does not appear to have been the coaching...so who is left to fire? Who is the main culprit, the common link, the least common denom?

BTW- I remember asking, when people were gushing about the new coaches, if we failed again would people be quick to point out the issue wasn't coaching. Someone replied no, lol. I guess it is true.

Sean is the issue, repeat after me, Sean can no longer win and has lost the team.

It was and is coaching. Some talent issues here and there, but mostly coaching. I liked the hiring of Mike Nolan, and liked bringing back Curtis Johnson. I don't know anything about the defensive line coach they brought in, so that one didn't move me one way or the other.

But I have never been an advocate of Dennis Allen as DC. I don't see anything schematically that is overwhelming, and I surely don't see any discipline. The discipline problem is team wide, which means the head coach isn't getting his message across. Why, I don't know... there clearly seems to be a disconnect, but who knows how that came to be. I have a bunch of theories, but there's no point in getting into that.

Offensively, we have gotten behind the times. It goes to show how quickly things can change in the NFL. Payton thinks he can do the same things he did a few years ago, but people adjust eventually. Great coaches adapt to changing times. Coaches with fancy schemes and no backup plan tend to fade out just like any other trendy thing in life. Remember "the greatest show on turf"? Those Rams offenses were like man landing on Mars; it was so advanced, and it just seemed like no one would ever stop that team. And yet, it was over relatively quickly, and Mike Martz moved on to a couple of different places, but his offense never succeeded again.

This seems to be the track Sean Payton is on. I don't know if he has a second wind in him, but right now it looks like he isn't the type of coach who is ever going to adapt to the ever changing league. I hope I'm wrong for his sake and ours, but if I happen to be right, I would rather this not drag on longer than it needs to.

neugey · 09-19-2017, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by skymike

I guess some of you are too young to remember what its like to have a great rest-of-the-team-even-a-great kicker, but at QB, have an Aaron Brooks or a Jim Everett or a Dave Wilson or some assorted Billy Joes.

Drew Brees'es dont grow on trees, people.

Even a guy named Bobby Hebert, (who was actually one of our 2** best pre-Brees QBs*** ) agrees with me.

I do remember those days. But I'd rather be a Dome Patrol than a finesse team with no defense. In any sport. You are always closer with great defense/pitching. Lots of close games. You may fall short of winning some big ones, but at least you made the other team earn it. No rebounds, no rings. Defense wins championships.

dizzle88 · 09-19-2017, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by neugey

I do remember those days. But I'd rather be a Dome Patrol than a finesse team with no defense. In any sport. You are always closer with great defense/pitching. Lots of close games. You may fall short of winning some big ones, but at least you made the other team earn it. No rebounds, no rings. Defense wins championships.

Very good point, Look at Houston, they make nearly every game close because they have a top 5 D. All they need is a franchise QB to take them over the edge.

dizzle88 · 09-19-2017, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

I agree and I too liked the Curtis signing again and I was glad we let go Vitt. I guess the point I am trying to make is that at some point we cannot keep firing everyone else. Spags went on to be successful again in NY. RR was a terrible signing then and now. DA I had hopes for, but at some point we just can't keep blaming everyone except SP (And I recognize you're not doing that). You're right, it has the feel he has lost the team. When you keep churning the same product year in and year out the HC has to be to blame. How many years does it take to rebuild to become at the very least competitive. We look the same as we have for what is now the fourth year. Matter of fact we look worse this year than last. At least so far. I am sure we will string together some wins and old 7-9 will get us back to his sweet spot and next year it will be cycle and repeat.

I'd rather see what someone else can do. 7-9 and no playoffs is no worse than 3-13 and no playoffs.

Any time we've called for SP to be fired the excuses come flying up.
One of the excuses was "who else is there?"

Which once again I'll turn to Oakland for my example, Jack Del rio did sweet f-all in Jacksonville for years due to management that kept his responsibilities in check.

Sean Payton has been given free reign to do whatever he wants and for results, look at the last 4 years.

Now Del Rio went to Oakland, formed a defensive that relies on front 4 pressure centered around Kalil Mack and has Derek Carr who is going to be a stud for years to come.

Now Del Rio has been in Oakland for 3 years I believe, he has turned them from a 3 win a year organisation, to a top 5 team and perennial playoff team.

All that in the time we have continually gone 7-9 and been unable to stop tripping over our own feet.

My main point is, when Oakland signed Del Rio, many fans thought "he wasn't that good in Jacksonville" and look what happened.

No one is irreplaceable, especially Payton.

neugey · 09-19-2017, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

Any time we've called for SP to be fired the excuses come flying up.
One of the excuses was "who else is there?"

Right. I feel like for 3-4 years we resisted firing Payton out of fear. Fear that he would go to another team and be great for someone else.

Decisions made primarily out of fear usually aren't good ones.

AsylumGuido · 09-19-2017, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

that would have been the best suited trading partner prior to Watson. I think they're dug in

Brees has a no trade clause in his contract. The Saints will be the last team he will ever play for. He has stressed that on numerous occasions.

neugey · 09-19-2017, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Brees has a no trade clause in his contract. The Saints will be the last team he will ever play for. He has stressed that on numerous occasions.

Thanks for pointing that out.

I also think the 'Brees doesn't want to go through a rebuild' narrative is a little presumptuous. Changing coaches is hardly a death sentence. The last two times we did it, we made the playoffs. Brees is loyal to Payton/Loomis but he also knows the NFL is a business. The rest of team needs and would benefit from his continued leadership.

Mardigras9 · 09-19-2017, 10:37 AM

Move on from Drew Brees, LOL, whatever.

hagan714 · 09-19-2017, 10:39 AM

wait till game 8 before burning down the house

09-19-2017, 06:25 AM	#31
skymike E. Side Cholo Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Barrio, H-town Posts: 6,079	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by neugey The odds of finding a trade partner for Brees is low anyway. The only team that seems like they are a QB away from a deep playoff run is Denver. Brees is in the last year of his contract, so a bad team that needs a QB like the Jets is not going to trade for him when they know they will probably lose him in FA anyway the next offseason. I live in Houston, so I know a little, not much about the Texans, but the Texans would would all give Brees their body parts to join this team, because they're one of about 20 or so teams that has everything else BUT a great QB. I guess some of you are too young to remember what its like to have a great rest-of-the-team-even-a-great kicker, but at QB, have an Aaron Brooks or a Jim Everett or a Dave Wilson or some assorted Billy Joes. Drew Brees'es dont grow on trees, people. Even a guy named Bobby Hebert, (who was actually one of our 2 best pre-Brees QBs* ) agrees with me. It would be CRAZY to unload Drew Brees. Somewhere, on our board, there could be some millenial kid, playing with his phone, who doesnt know the name ARCHIE. Dont laugh. 60% of America cant name 3 branches of govt. * Bobby was actually pretty damn good, and tough as nails. Dont be hatin, fellow old guys. You were screamin for them to put him in, when we had Dave Wilson, so put a sock in it. And we all felt like we had a chance, when Bobby was in there. Did you feel like that with Richard Todd? Yeah, ok I thought Todd would do it for us too. nevermind. But he was 10X better than Stabler- so simma down now !
	Last edited by skymike; 09-19-2017 at 06:42 AM..

09-19-2017, 06:48 AM	#32
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,903 Blog Entries: 3	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by spkb25 I have no idea what Benson will do, but he definitely is or appears not to be in the frame of mind to do what needs doing. I am holding out for a 3 win season if we are going to miss the playoffs again. At least maybe we finally fire SP. That said, please stop with the fire DA threads. Jesus H Christ...how many people have to be laid out to the alter for SP? We just remade our entire defensive coaching unit to which 90% or more on this board swore was the answer. It does not appear to have been the coaching...so who is left to fire? Who is the main culprit, the common link, the least common denom? BTW- I remember asking, when people were gushing about the new coaches, if we failed again would people be quick to point out the issue wasn't coaching. Someone replied no, lol. I guess it is true. Sean is the issue, repeat after me, Sean can no longer win and has lost the team. It was and is coaching. Some talent issues here and there, but mostly coaching. I liked the hiring of Mike Nolan, and liked bringing back Curtis Johnson. I don't know anything about the defensive line coach they brought in, so that one didn't move me one way or the other. But I have never been an advocate of Dennis Allen as DC. I don't see anything schematically that is overwhelming, and I surely don't see any discipline. The discipline problem is team wide, which means the head coach isn't getting his message across. Why, I don't know... there clearly seems to be a disconnect, but who knows how that came to be. I have a bunch of theories, but there's no point in getting into that. Offensively, we have gotten behind the times. It goes to show how quickly things can change in the NFL. Payton thinks he can do the same things he did a few years ago, but people adjust eventually. Great coaches adapt to changing times. Coaches with fancy schemes and no backup plan tend to fade out just like any other trendy thing in life. Remember "the greatest show on turf"? Those Rams offenses were like man landing on Mars; it was so advanced, and it just seemed like no one would ever stop that team. And yet, it was over relatively quickly, and Mike Martz moved on to a couple of different places, but his offense never succeeded again. This seems to be the track Sean Payton is on. I don't know if he has a second wind in him, but right now it looks like he isn't the type of coach who is ever going to adapt to the ever changing league. I hope I'm wrong for his sake and ours, but if I happen to be right, I would rather this not drag on longer than it needs to. spkb25, neugey and Kryptonite like this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

09-19-2017, 07:53 AM	#33
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,780 Blog Entries: 7	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by skymike I guess some of you are too young to remember what its like to have a great rest-of-the-team-even-a-great kicker, but at QB, have an Aaron Brooks or a Jim Everett or a Dave Wilson or some assorted Billy Joes. Drew Brees'es dont grow on trees, people. Even a guy named Bobby Hebert, (who was actually one of our 2 best pre-Brees QBs* ) agrees with me. I do remember those days. But I'd rather be a Dome Patrol than a finesse team with no defense. In any sport. You are always closer with great defense/pitching. Lots of close games. You may fall short of winning some big ones, but at least you made the other team earn it. No rebounds, no rings. Defense wins championships. skymike and dizzle88 like this.

09-19-2017, 07:59 AM	#34
dizzle88 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,301	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by neugey I do remember those days. But I'd rather be a Dome Patrol than a finesse team with no defense. In any sport. You are always closer with great defense/pitching. Lots of close games. You may fall short of winning some big ones, but at least you made the other team earn it. No rebounds, no rings. Defense wins championships. Very good point, Look at Houston, they make nearly every game close because they have a top 5 D. All they need is a franchise QB to take them over the edge. skymike likes this.
dizzle88 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,301

09-19-2017, 08:08 AM	#35
dizzle88 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,301	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by spkb25 I agree and I too liked the Curtis signing again and I was glad we let go Vitt. I guess the point I am trying to make is that at some point we cannot keep firing everyone else. Spags went on to be successful again in NY. RR was a terrible signing then and now. DA I had hopes for, but at some point we just can't keep blaming everyone except SP (And I recognize you're not doing that). You're right, it has the feel he has lost the team. When you keep churning the same product year in and year out the HC has to be to blame. How many years does it take to rebuild to become at the very least competitive. We look the same as we have for what is now the fourth year. Matter of fact we look worse this year than last. At least so far. I am sure we will string together some wins and old 7-9 will get us back to his sweet spot and next year it will be cycle and repeat. I'd rather see what someone else can do. 7-9 and no playoffs is no worse than 3-13 and no playoffs. Any time we've called for SP to be fired the excuses come flying up. One of the excuses was "who else is there?" Which once again I'll turn to Oakland for my example, Jack Del rio did sweet f-all in Jacksonville for years due to management that kept his responsibilities in check. Sean Payton has been given free reign to do whatever he wants and for results, look at the last 4 years. Now Del Rio went to Oakland, formed a defensive that relies on front 4 pressure centered around Kalil Mack and has Derek Carr who is going to be a stud for years to come. Now Del Rio has been in Oakland for 3 years I believe, he has turned them from a 3 win a year organisation, to a top 5 team and perennial playoff team. All that in the time we have continually gone 7-9 and been unable to stop tripping over our own feet. My main point is, when Oakland signed Del Rio, many fans thought "he wasn't that good in Jacksonville" and look what happened. No one is irreplaceable, especially Payton. spkb25 and rezburna like this.
dizzle88 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,301	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

Latest Blogs
2021 New Orleans Saints Rebuild - Quarterback Last Blog: 01-18-2021 By: jeanpierre Saints vs Chiefs Post-Game Commentary Last Blog: 12-21-2020 By: jeanpierre The Official Eating Crow About Taysom Thread Last Blog: 11-22-2020 By: K Major

09-19-2017, 08:17 AM	#36
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,780 Blog Entries: 7	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by dizzle88 Any time we've called for SP to be fired the excuses come flying up. One of the excuses was "who else is there?" Right. I feel like for 3-4 years we resisted firing Payton out of fear. Fear that he would go to another team and be great for someone else. Decisions made primarily out of fear usually aren't good ones. rezburna likes this.

09-19-2017, 08:31 AM	#37
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 14,933	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by spkb25 that would have been the best suited trading partner prior to Watson. I think they're dug in Brees has a no trade clause in his contract. The Saints will be the last team he will ever play for. He has stressed that on numerous occasions. neugey, jeanpierre and skymike like this.

09-19-2017, 10:29 AM	#38
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,780 Blog Entries: 7	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Brees has a no trade clause in his contract. The Saints will be the last team he will ever play for. He has stressed that on numerous occasions. Thanks for pointing that out. I also think the 'Brees doesn't want to go through a rebuild' narrative is a little presumptuous. Changing coaches is hardly a death sentence. The last two times we did it, we made the playoffs. Brees is loyal to Payton/Loomis but he also knows the NFL is a business. The rest of team needs and would benefit from his continued leadership.

09-19-2017, 10:37 AM	#39
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees Move on from Drew Brees, LOL, whatever. skymike likes this.

09-19-2017, 10:39 AM	#40
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees wait till game 8 before burning down the house AsylumGuido likes this.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: https://blackandgold.com/saints/84297-its-time-saints-move-sean-payton-drew-brees.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date	Hits
Black and Gold \| SportSpyder	This thread	Refback	09-18-2017 06:06 AM	1
The Latest New Orleans Saints News \| SportSpyder	This thread	Refback	09-18-2017 02:40 AM	12
The Latest NFL News \| SportSpyder	This thread	Refback	09-18-2017 01:27 AM	1
It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees	This thread	Refback	09-18-2017 01:02 AM	1