Offseason performance v. expectations

WhoDat · 04-07-2005, 11:47 AM

Because I often think people here have short memories or are particularly willing to forgive the Saints, I thought I would compare what the Saints have done so far this offseason with what people said they should do. Here is how people ranked our needs only a few months ago in a thread called 'Rank Our Problems and Discussion.'

http://www.blackandgold.net/site/mod...e=1&orderdate=

My intent is not to criticize anyone, I think most of these picks are correct. This is to examine what the Saints have done versus what we think they should have done.

GumboBC ordered the needs this way.

OT -5
MLB-4
OLB-3
CB-2
OT-2
DT-2
S-1
TE-1

So, accordingly to Billy, and assuming the Guard we signed will play Tackle, we addressed our First, Sixth, and Seventh most important needs so far this offseason. I will not address the adequacy of those pick-ups. Based on the relative importance of each position, we filled 7 points of a potential 20 that Billy assigned - 35%.

JKool ranked them this way:

MLB - 3 (We need one, and how.)
OT - 3 (Replacing Riley is the only way to get things done.)
OLB - 2 (We need a backup AT LEAST)
DT - 2 (This may not be necessary with new LBs, but it would obvioulsy improve us.)
S - 2 (We need a quality backup AT LEAST)
OT - 2 (Replacing Gandy would free cap space and an improvement here is welcome.)
RB - 2 (I like Stecker, but he doesn't inspire a lot of confidence as an every down back.)
CB - 1 (After MM, we drop off VERY fast.)
QB - 1 (At least a backup who is better than Bouman, please.)
OG - 1 (Our interior wasn't that solid, an upgrade would be nice.)
WR - 1 (After Horn, we're nothing but a lot of potential.)
TE - 1 (They were shakey at times, but with a bit more attention, I don't think they suck.)

Here, we got the Second, Fifth, Seventh, and Twelveth most important positions: a 8/21 (38%).

FireVenturi Said

OLB-3-Ed HaRTWELL
OT-3-Riley Sucks
DT-2-wouldn't hurt to add someone
OG-2- we are not as solid as we think here
Cb-2-After MM we have nickel backs
S-2-Ball Hawk please
OT-2-Gandy aint gettin any younger
TE-2-They cant catch and aren't great at blocking either
MLB-1- I think Courtney is fine...need a backup
Qb-1-Bouman sucks

Second or Fourth depending on what you think Mayberry will play, Sixth, and Eigth. Max of 7/20 (35%)

ScottyRo called it this way:

OT 6: Both Riley and Gandy must go. (Gandy would be a credible RT, but at lesser pay).

OLB 5: I'd like to stick with Watson in the middle for now and get better on the edges. This may mean coaching up Allen or Hodge and picking up soomeone new.

DT 3: Obviously we need someone clogging up the middle.

QB 3: AB has talent and athlietic ability. All 3 points should go into coaching and scheming. 2 major areas of focus: running when necessary and dumping the ball off when in trouble.

S 1.5: Tebucky looks ok. He could stand plenty of improvement in coverage. I really think we need to replace Bellamy with Mitchell or someone new.

WR 1.5: As with AB, I'd like to see coaching at work here. A focus on understanding the playbook and focusing on assignments is a key here (lumpin catching the ball here).

First and Fifth - 7.5/20 (37.5%)

Danno said:

WLB-4
DT-3
RT-3
SS-2
FS-2
TE-1
OG-1
QB-1
CB-1
RB-1
WR-1

Third, Fifth, Sixth, Tenth. 7/20 (35%)

Given that we have really only addressed one need that anyone considered pressing, and did so with a player who hasn't played that position recently, I wonder how people can rate the Saints a B this offseason.

JKool · 04-07-2005, 12:54 PM

Interesting post Who.

It is my firm belief that our offseason has been pretty Ho-Hum.

I think it may have been LB (or maybe it was Shadow) who went on a rant about assigning grades. I\'m starting to think it is a fun activity, but since everyone\'s standards are quite different, it is hard to see what the grade represents.

My feeling is that we didn\'t address a lot of needs. You\'ll remember that some of us were very much pushing to get a guy like Womack or a real RT. Also, everyone is very much upset about not landing a LB. So, I\'m not sure how happy anyone should be about our offseason. Furthermore, while D. Smith may be a serious upgrade from T-buck, cutting T-buck was just plain dumb - it cost 1 mil in cap space that we could be using to retain Howard, sign our draft picks, pick up a couple of more Ho-Hum FAs, and so on.

I guess, as usual (and I don\'t usually say such things), we\'ll be putting most of our hopes on the draft. As I recall, you and I agree about the importance of FA. I believe, again, as usual, this FA was nothing to get too excited about.

I guess we\'ll see.

ScottyRo · 04-07-2005, 01:00 PM

Will the draft factor into this at all?

It\'s kinda scary to see that we\'ve only covered about 35% of our needs so far.

LKelley67 · 04-07-2005, 01:59 PM

the moves made were okay. you must ask though, no matter how good 4 games looked to some, is a FS upgrade and adding one backup LB enough to address having the 32nd, LAST, ranked defense in the league? not to me. even add a rookie LB that can move one of the current starters, maybe a rookie corner that could be better than fakhir- still not enough. an ambitious goal of improving to 20-24th in D and the offense getting back to 10th or so... that might get ya into the playoffs but not deep unless the pigskin gods had mercy. that would be significant progress. yet, i see the cap crunch tightening with horn, deuce, and bentley needing more money now. then grant and stallworth (if improving) etc will be on tap for more. there is a window of most favorable opportunity that i believe is here now- or past. a big push should be/should have been on to take advantage of that. then deal with the cycle. the cap master team patriots are coming to that challenge now (which is greater than losing both coordinators). i fear besides being a non-football talent savvy guy loomis is too tightwad (perhaps by instruction or design) to go for such a big push, ie kearse and t.o. in philly last year.

Danno · 04-07-2005, 02:05 PM

Danno said:
WLB-4
DT-3
RT-3
SS-2
FS-2
TE-1
OG-1
QB-1
CB-1
RB-1
WR-1

Third, Fifth, Sixth, Tenth. 7/20 (35%)[/quote:9eb46cad7a]
Not to nit-pick but its actually
2nd, 4th, 6th, 6th if you go by points.

WhoDat · 04-07-2005, 03:29 PM

Whatever, it\'s still 35% any way you slice it.

Here\'s what\'s even scarier Danno. Of your 20 points you directed 12 (60%) towards defensive concerns, with four of your top five needs being on the defensive side of the ball.

So far, by your points, we\'ve earned 1 of 12... 8% of your assigned defensive needs.

Have a great day.

Danno · 04-07-2005, 04:14 PM

Whatever, it\'s still 35% any way you slice it.
Here\'s what\'s even scarier Danno. Of your 20 points you directed 12 (60%) towards defensive concerns, with four of your top five needs being on the defensive side of the ball.

So far, by your points, we\'ve earned 1 of 12... 8% of your assigned defensive needs.
Have a great day.

Which is why I gave them a D for addressing major needs.
From our grading post...

As far as addressing the major needs, D
As far as getting some quality players, B
As far as re-signing our own key guys, A
As far as value for all the guys we signed, A

Overall off-season grade B.

Could go to an A-minus if we\'re able to acquire a major need (OLB, ILB or DT) or a 2nd round draft pick via a Howard trade.

[Edited on 7/4/2005 by Danno]

GumboBC · 04-07-2005, 06:47 PM

Good thread, WhoDat. It\'s interesting to see what we all wanted before free-agency and the draft. Thanks, to JKool for coming up with the orginal thread.

First - I never expected us to fill every need in free-agency. With that being said, I\'m happy with Mayberry at RT. I know I might be in the minority, but Mayberry has experience at LEFT tackle and playing RIGHT tackle is much easier. But ... we\'ll see!

Even though \"safety\" wasn\'t high on my wish list, it was still a much needed upgrade and Dwight is about as PROVEN as they come.

All it will take for me to be totally satisfied with our free-agency is a play-making MLB.

04-07-2005, 11:47 AM	#1
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Offseason performance v. expectations Because I often think people here have short memories or are particularly willing to forgive the Saints, I thought I would compare what the Saints have done so far this offseason with what people said they should do. Here is how people ranked our needs only a few months ago in a thread called 'Rank Our Problems and Discussion.' http://www.blackandgold.net/site/mod...e=1&orderdate= My intent is not to criticize anyone, I think most of these picks are correct. This is to examine what the Saints have done versus what we think they should have done. GumboBC ordered the needs this way. OT -5 MLB-4 OLB-3 CB-2 OT-2 DT-2 S-1 TE-1 So, accordingly to Billy, and assuming the Guard we signed will play Tackle, we addressed our First, Sixth, and Seventh most important needs so far this offseason. I will not address the adequacy of those pick-ups. Based on the relative importance of each position, we filled 7 points of a potential 20 that Billy assigned - 35%. JKool ranked them this way: MLB - 3 (We need one, and how.) OT - 3 (Replacing Riley is the only way to get things done.) OLB - 2 (We need a backup AT LEAST) DT - 2 (This may not be necessary with new LBs, but it would obvioulsy improve us.) S - 2 (We need a quality backup AT LEAST) OT - 2 (Replacing Gandy would free cap space and an improvement here is welcome.) RB - 2 (I like Stecker, but he doesn't inspire a lot of confidence as an every down back.) CB - 1 (After MM, we drop off VERY fast.) QB - 1 (At least a backup who is better than Bouman, please.) OG - 1 (Our interior wasn't that solid, an upgrade would be nice.) WR - 1 (After Horn, we're nothing but a lot of potential.) TE - 1 (They were shakey at times, but with a bit more attention, I don't think they suck.) Here, we got the Second, Fifth, Seventh, and Twelveth most important positions: a 8/21 (38%). FireVenturi Said OLB-3-Ed HaRTWELL OT-3-Riley Sucks DT-2-wouldn't hurt to add someone OG-2- we are not as solid as we think here Cb-2-After MM we have nickel backs S-2-Ball Hawk please OT-2-Gandy aint gettin any younger TE-2-They cant catch and aren't great at blocking either MLB-1- I think Courtney is fine...need a backup Qb-1-Bouman sucks Second or Fourth depending on what you think Mayberry will play, Sixth, and Eigth. Max of 7/20 (35%) ScottyRo called it this way: OT 6: Both Riley and Gandy must go. (Gandy would be a credible RT, but at lesser pay). OLB 5: I'd like to stick with Watson in the middle for now and get better on the edges. This may mean coaching up Allen or Hodge and picking up soomeone new. DT 3: Obviously we need someone clogging up the middle. QB 3: AB has talent and athlietic ability. All 3 points should go into coaching and scheming. 2 major areas of focus: running when necessary and dumping the ball off when in trouble. S 1.5: Tebucky looks ok. He could stand plenty of improvement in coverage. I really think we need to replace Bellamy with Mitchell or someone new. WR 1.5: As with AB, I'd like to see coaching at work here. A focus on understanding the playbook and focusing on assignments is a key here (lumpin catching the ball here). First and Fifth - 7.5/20 (37.5%) Danno said: WLB-4 DT-3 RT-3 SS-2 FS-2 TE-1 OG-1 QB-1 CB-1 RB-1 WR-1 Third, Fifth, Sixth, Tenth. 7/20 (35%) Given that we have really only addressed one need that anyone considered pressing, and did so with a player who hasn't played that position recently, I wonder how people can rate the Saints a B this offseason.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

04-07-2005, 12:54 PM	#2
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Offseason performance v. expectations Interesting post Who. It is my firm belief that our offseason has been pretty Ho-Hum. I think it may have been LB (or maybe it was Shadow) who went on a rant about assigning grades. I\'m starting to think it is a fun activity, but since everyone\'s standards are quite different, it is hard to see what the grade represents. My feeling is that we didn\'t address a lot of needs. You\'ll remember that some of us were very much pushing to get a guy like Womack or a real RT. Also, everyone is very much upset about not landing a LB. So, I\'m not sure how happy anyone should be about our offseason. Furthermore, while D. Smith may be a serious upgrade from T-buck, cutting T-buck was just plain dumb - it cost 1 mil in cap space that we could be using to retain Howard, sign our draft picks, pick up a couple of more Ho-Hum FAs, and so on. I guess, as usual (and I don\'t usually say such things), we\'ll be putting most of our hopes on the draft. As I recall, you and I agree about the importance of FA. I believe, again, as usual, this FA was nothing to get too excited about. I guess we\'ll see.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

04-07-2005, 01:00 PM	#3
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Offseason performance v. expectations Will the draft factor into this at all? It\'s kinda scary to see that we\'ve only covered about 35% of our needs so far.

04-07-2005, 01:59 PM	#4
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	Offseason performance v. expectations the moves made were okay. you must ask though, no matter how good 4 games looked to some, is a FS upgrade and adding one backup LB enough to address having the 32nd, LAST, ranked defense in the league? not to me. even add a rookie LB that can move one of the current starters, maybe a rookie corner that could be better than fakhir- still not enough. an ambitious goal of improving to 20-24th in D and the offense getting back to 10th or so... that might get ya into the playoffs but not deep unless the pigskin gods had mercy. that would be significant progress. yet, i see the cap crunch tightening with horn, deuce, and bentley needing more money now. then grant and stallworth (if improving) etc will be on tap for more. there is a window of most favorable opportunity that i believe is here now- or past. a big push should be/should have been on to take advantage of that. then deal with the cycle. the cap master team patriots are coming to that challenge now (which is greater than losing both coordinators). i fear besides being a non-football talent savvy guy loomis is too tightwad (perhaps by instruction or design) to go for such a big push, ie kearse and t.o. in philly last year.

04-07-2005, 02:05 PM	#5
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Offseason performance v. expectations Danno said: WLB-4 DT-3 RT-3 SS-2 FS-2 TE-1 OG-1 QB-1 CB-1 RB-1 WR-1 Third, Fifth, Sixth, Tenth. 7/20 (35%)[/quote:9eb46cad7a] Not to nit-pick but its actually 2nd, 4th, 6th, 6th if you go by points.

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04-07-2005, 03:29 PM	#6
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Offseason performance v. expectations Whatever, it\'s still 35% any way you slice it. Here\'s what\'s even scarier Danno. Of your 20 points you directed 12 (60%) towards defensive concerns, with four of your top five needs being on the defensive side of the ball. So far, by your points, we\'ve earned 1 of 12... 8% of your assigned defensive needs. Have a great day.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

04-07-2005, 04:14 PM	#7
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Offseason performance v. expectations Whatever, it\'s still 35% any way you slice it. Here\'s what\'s even scarier Danno. Of your 20 points you directed 12 (60%) towards defensive concerns, with four of your top five needs being on the defensive side of the ball. So far, by your points, we\'ve earned 1 of 12... 8% of your assigned defensive needs. Have a great day. Which is why I gave them a D for addressing major needs. From our grading post... As far as addressing the major needs, D As far as getting some quality players, B As far as re-signing our own key guys, A As far as value for all the guys we signed, A Overall off-season grade B. Could go to an A-minus if we\'re able to acquire a major need (OLB, ILB or DT) or a 2nd round draft pick via a Howard trade. [Edited on 7/4/2005 by Danno]

04-07-2005, 06:47 PM	#8
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Offseason performance v. expectations Good thread, WhoDat. It\'s interesting to see what we all wanted before free-agency and the draft. Thanks, to JKool for coming up with the orginal thread. First - I never expected us to fill every need in free-agency. With that being said, I\'m happy with Mayberry at RT. I know I might be in the minority, but Mayberry has experience at LEFT tackle and playing RIGHT tackle is much easier. But ... we\'ll see! Even though \"safety\" wasn\'t high on my wish list, it was still a much needed upgrade and Dwight is about as PROVEN as they come. All it will take for me to be totally satisfied with our free-agency is a play-making MLB.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616