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Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

Quote:

Every report I read said Sullivan got in Haslett\'s dog-house because he reported out of shape and he had a bad attitude.

that sounds like sucking to me

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

gumbo, then as i said i would, i apologize for bringing it into play. I have no grudge against sullivan. but put the grady jackson into persepctive. he was in the same boat as sullivan. labeled as washed up whereas i am labeling sullivan as untalented and both were overweight in their stints as Saints. jackson left for green bay where he plugged the middle and was a huge improvement for their run defense two season ago(last season he was hurt and the numbers reflect that). but i am not angry that he was cut here and went and played well elsewhere. at that time, i felt that he should have been cut for the same reasons that i am saying that sullivan should be cut. it is no grudge. and im not saying that i would rather wait for a rookie to develop than have sullivan break out next season. all im saying is that i would rather get someone with more talent and motivation and let sullivan test his \"talent\" elsewhere.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

Quote:

Every report I read said Sullivan got in Haslett\'s dog-house because he reported out of shape and he had a bad attitude.

that sounds like sucking to me

I don\'t think I\'ve ever seen anything negative that you didn\'t agree with.

Devery Henderson muct suck too, huh?

The fact of the matter is that Haslett and company still think Sullivan can be a very good DT. They said he has all the talent in the world but his attitude is bad.

Now, you make of it what you will. Sullivan has NOT sucked on the field. Sullian\'s attitude and work-ethic has been what\'s kept him off the field.

And it might be his downfall once again. Then again ... he might have a break-out year.

[Edited on 11/4/2005 by GumboBC]

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

Quote:

NO Derrick Rodgers was out for the second straight game due to his back and rookie Colby Bockwoldt once again replaced him. Bockwoldt had another strong game, posting 5 solo tackles and his first career sack. Rodgers\'s season may be over, as it appears he could have a ruptured disc in his back requiring surgery. Two other key inactives involved much more bizarre stories. Rookie Courtney Watson was off to a hot start after winning the starting MLB job before injuring his knee Week 5. While recovering, he apparently ran into HC Jim Haslett\'s doghouse, as well. This came to head last week when Watson missed a team meeting and walk-through Saturday morning and was not allowed on the team flight to Atlanta. He bought his own ticket and flew commercial to get there, only to be benched for the game. Orlando Ruff remains the starter at MLB. DT Jonathan Sullivan was inactive again, as he has been a healthy scratch the last few weeks for poor play, missing meetings, and being overweight. He didn\'t show much progress in the diet area before the game Sunday when he reportedly stopped in the Georgia Dome press room for a pregame meal. Howard Green remains the starter at DT over the former 1st round pick.

http://www.fftoday.com/articles/idpt...es_04_wk13.htm

Quote:

Want some proof that there is entirely too much emphasis put on the NFL draft? Georgia has put a lot of top-notch talent into the NFL in recent years. Jonathan Sullivan is not one of them. The overall #6 pick in the NFL draft a couple of years back was in street clothes on Sunday for the Saints loss to the Falcons. He wasnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢t injured, he was just inactive, the Saints coaches deciding that he just wasnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢t in a position to buttress their horrendous defense.

http://www.consumerbet.com/sgn_old/12_02_04.html

You do know what a healthy scratch is right? Means there is NO reason for you not to be playing except you just aren\'t good enough. He wasn\'t suspended. So just admit to us you pay attention to the Saints when it fits you, and ignore the common knowledge that Sullivan was a healthy scratch vitually all season due to just lack-luster sub-par play.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

saintwhodi --

Please quit making things up.

The article clearly says Sullivan missed meetings and was over-weight.

Healthy scratch means that Haslett didn\'t play him because he didn\'t want to play him. And that\'s ALL it means.

Devery Henderson did NOT play one play last year. But you like that dude.

A second round draft pick didn\'t even get on the field for ONE play. But you love that guy.

I hope you\'re trying to fool someone esle, saintwhodi. You better wake up a lot earlier to get one over on me. :D

[Edited on 11/4/2005 by GumboBC]

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

And the fact that the Saints deactivated Sullivan when he was completely healthy, thus not only not naming him as a starter, but not deeming him worthy of backup duty either, seems to show that they do not have much faith in him. Cut him. Draft Travis Johnson or wait later and get one of those boys from Mizzou. Even put Rodney Leisle in. At least he\'ll give a little effort.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

leslie might actually be better than some of the tackles we could get in the draft..

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

Tic toc,tic toc, get the picture? You guys quit the personal stuff please. Seems to me you\'re just saying the same things over and over. Let\'s get back to the original posting.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

Quote:

I don\'t think I\'ve ever seen anything negative that you didn\'t agree with

after i earlier pleaded for less dialogue about posters you persist in personal vindictiveness. stirring the pot may be enjoyable to you but i do not think it does much for the site.

you commonly turn to this approach (or disappear from a thread) when not able to sufficiently rebut in debate.

convoluted logic:

Quote:

Sullivan has NOT sucked on the field. Sullian\'s attitude and work-ethic has been what\'s kept him off the field.

1. yes, i do think he has sucked on the fiels when he was on it.
2. if you have that much supposed talent as you forward and cannot make it, not on the field- not even on the active roster (!!!), how much more indictment is necessary?

as for keeping him, we\'ll see. 3million dollars for nothing is 3million dollars for nothing whether he is there in body or not. if the cap hit isn\'t dramatically different i won\'t be surprised to see him 377 pounds and chowing down buckets of fried chicken in griffin, georgia this fall.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

thanks joesam, i had my reply screen up for a while (cooling off) and didn\'t see your post

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

Quote:

Tic toc,tic toc, get the picture? You guys quit the personal stuff please. Seems to me you\'re just saying the same things over and over. Let\'s get back to the original posting.

I got the picture, JoeSam. I just had to get in a few jabs on saintwhodi. ;) Those upper-cuts were getting to me.

I thought there may be ONE thread that you didn\'t read. LOL

Soon the draft will have come and gone. It\'s a long strecth after that with no new Saints\' news being reported. Better make some of those other moderators take up some slack for you.

You\'re like the Lone Ranger on here trying to keep things under control.

Hard Work. Lots of criticism. But if I\'m come to respect the job you do .... there\'s hope for everyone ...

[Edited on 11/4/2005 by GumboBC]

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

LKelley67 --

You\'re right. Even though I think you tend to be on the negative side of the fence more times than not ... That doesn\'t make you wrong. But ... just the same ... I disagree.

If Haslett thought Sullivan did haven\'t the skills to get the job done, then I think Haslett would have cut him like he did Tebucky Jones.

Furthermore ... Haslett said Sullivan has all the talent in the world but his attitude held him back.

Whose opinion should I put more stock in? Yours or Haslett?

While Haslett could very well be wrong .. I tend to think he knows a little more about Sullivan that you.

And Sullivan was going to be picked in the first round. Probably not the 6th pick, though. Still ... the guy had to show some talent to be picked in the first round.

Not getting on the field doesn\'t mean he doesn\'t have talent. What it suggest to me is that Sullivan was very immature and it cost him the starting job that he was handed.

I see that many fans are upset with Sullivan. And rightly so. But I just can\'t let my personal feelings get in the way of what\'s best for this team.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

First, I don\'t think Sullivan has shown anything on an NFL field to prove that he has starting DT talent. The fact that Haslet benched him for poor attitude seems to back this up because Haslet would not have benched him long-term as he did if Haslet thought Sullivan would be able to contribute.

Second,

Quote:

Haslett said Sullivan has all the talent in the world but his attitude held him back.

This statement doesn\'t change my opinion that Sullivan has not shown enough talent. However, it is the type of statement that needs to be cited by a link. This statement cannot be given any weight without proper validation.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

Quote:

I don\'t understand something. Maybe someone can help me.

Cap wise, cutting Sullivan this year will hit us harder than cutting him next year. Is that correct?

If so, what is the downside of giving him a shot in 2005?

Maybe more of an opinion than rock-solid fact:
If we cut Sullivan now we will be hit with the remaining prorated signing bonus. The signing bonus was actually 11 million (7 million when he signed, 4 million before last season). The contract was for 7 years, but could be voided after 5 if Sullivan met certain playing time goals (which he won\'t reach).

So it\'s very tricky what will actually count against the cap. 3/5 of the bonus or 5/7 of the bonus? In any case, if we cut him next year he will only count 2/5 or 4/7 of his bonus against the cap.
That\'s why cutting Sullivan this year hits us harder cap wise.
Well, that\'s actually only true if he\'s cut before June 1st ...

If he is cut after June 1st the \"dead money\" counting against the cap is split. Only 1 part of the prorated bonus counts against the cap in the year he is cut, the rest counts next year. This means if we cut him this year on June 2nd, 1/7 of the bonus will count against the cap this year and 4/7 next year. That\'s pretty much the worst case scenario.

So what\'s the downside of keeping him in 2005?
* The upside of cutting him is that the cap ramifications will be done with after 2005 and he won\'t count anything against the cap in 2006.
* If he is a team cancer again and there\'s no other way to send a message but to cut him mid-season, the 4/7 (or 2/5) of his bonus will count against the cap in 2006 without him being on the team. With 2006 being the year we will need every dime, this is - as mentioned above - the worst case scenario.
This could be as much as 6 million! And that scenario isn\'t out there, it\'s definitely a possibility.

If you want to play it save, you cut him NOW. But as I have stated earlier, the Saints won\'t cut him before June 1st and after that you can\'t very well cut him because of the 2006 cap.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

if it was only about talent and performance i think he would have been gone already. it is just the contractual obligation that has him here now.

perhaps we need some clintonesque, what do you define as talented? physical tools? size, combine like number analysis? i venture to say you could bring in some athletes to the combine who never played football and wow some coaches. he certainly HAD to have talent to get a scholarship to georgia. he HAD to have some talent to get drafted, even if too high, in the nfl. i think most would define talent as much broader than than physical tools though. nose for the ball, killer instinct, overdrive when the crunch is on, savviness reading the play, etc. you can have talent but if it is not cultured and honed it will subside. know anyone that used to play guitar pretty good but couldn\'t strum a song anymore? giving that many millions of dollars to an immature country kid from georgia and then ask him to step it up is weighty. that is why i have no grudge against him. scouts should have been fired if they misread him that bad. if the reports questioned his instincts then whoever made that decision to leap so far for him should have been canned.

tebuck is a similar case. he was a #22 first round pick. load of physical tools dissed by belicheck. load of physical tools when he got he here. load of\'em when he left. when you are a free safety released by the worst defense in the league that is an indictment of truer football talent though. and those types do get more chances. you cannot decide to have physical tools you weren\'t endowed with. you can decide to succeed to the best of your ability though whatever level that might be.

you did hijack this darren howard thread too. go start a \'should sullivan be cut?\' thread next time.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

There\'s little likelihood that he\'ll be cut in \'05 anyway. It may be preferred by some, but he\'s showing just enough attitude change to make him worth the risk versus the cap hit.

I would say he wont be cut before June 1, 2006 so that if he does still suck by then we can spread the remaining hit through 1/7 for \'06 (when we have all the re-signing nightmares) and 3/7 in \'07.

I believe that if the Saints are taking the 1/7 cap hit each year, but he was to void the final years if he met the minimum, then the rest of the cap hits would be accelerated into the first year after he voided the contract. This is moot since he wont make playing time minimums to void, but that\'s my best guess as to what would happen.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

my apoogies for hijacking the thread. im still relatively new with all this. sorry lkelley, i did not mean to take anything from your original post

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

no, no, BR. no prob dewd. gumbo did it, post #4

i just mention it cuz i was interested in some howard talk, then it gets obscured by the bickering over sullivan and what one poster thinks of another.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

Quote:

Falcons vs Saints Game Center
Haslett|Brooks

Wednesday, November 24:

Q: What kind of hours are you putting in now?
Jim Haslett: Just normal hours like every other coach in the league. [We] come in early, get in here about five o\'clock, quarter to five. On Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday stay until about midnight and Thursday until nine-thirty or so. Friday, normally you get home for dinner.

Q: When things are going like they are for you, do you feel like you have to do more than that?
Haslett: I think you do what you can do and I don\'t think we\'re going to change - at least from a coaching staff standpoint - from what we\'re doing time-wise and preparation-wise. I think we try and prepare our game as well as we can.

Q: Do you have to address your team about the stuff that your owner said about them?
Haslett: I said something to them, but it was kind of in passing. It\'s just something that...he\'s the owner, he\'s frustrated, he expects more and it\'s his prerogative. And I just think everybody else in this organization is frustrated. It\'s just part of the business and we\'ll deal with it.

Q: Looking back at the way things have turned out this season, is there something you could say like, If only this guy hadn\'t gotten hurt\' or If we hadn\'t lost this game\' or something like that...things would be much different?
Haslett: No. You know what? The bottom line is this thing is not over yet and we\'re one game away from being in the playoffs, so I think everybody has...and you look at all the teams that have a chance to be in the playoffs and I think they\'re all the same. You talk about Minnesota, Saint Louis, the Giants, Arizona, Tampa, Detroit, Chicago and us, the one thing you can say about them, they\'re all inconsistent. So the team that can put a string of wins together - three or four wins in a row - is usually the team that\'s going to make the playoffs. I think we\'re kind of lumped in with all those teams. We\'ve been inconsistent. We\'ve played maybe one or two really good games and then we\'ve been inconsistent in all areas. So hopefully down these next six weeks we can put a couple good games together.

Q: The Falcons have a pretty decent lead in the division. Are you guys looking more at the two wildcard spots?
Haslett: I don\'t know. I think you just worry about trying to win a football game. I don\'t worry about winning a division or chasing the Falcons. We just need to try and get back to a win and try to get a win before you can get two of them. And we just haven\'t done that. I think the Falcons have done a nice job. They\'re finding ways to win football games and different methods and different ways to do it. They\'re playing with great confidence and I think that\'s probably why they\'re where they are right now and we\'re where we\'re at.

Q: What\'s it like for a coach to go through a season with a lot of speculation surrounding his job?
Haslett: I\'ve been in this business where it doesn\'t really bother me. I\'m more concerned with my players and my coaches. I don\'t worry about myself. I want to win games because of these players downstairs and because of the coaches I have in the other room. To me, that\'s the most important thing. It\'s not always about head coaches. It\'s about everyone else who\'s involved.

Q: Has your team\'s inconsistent play been the biggest disappointment for you so far?
Haslett: Yeah, I think so. And it\'s in all areas. We\'ll do something really well and then the next week it\'ll be the same people and we won\'t do very well. That probably bothers me more than anything. You go out and you beat a good football team like the Chiefs and we play well on offense and we do a lot of different things, and then we come back the next week and we don\'t play worth a darn. And it\'s inconsistencies within the game, too. I think if somehow we can put it together, then you always have a chance, then.

Q: If someone from another team came and asked you what you thought of Ricky Williams and should they trade for him, what would you say?
Haslett: I probably wouldn\'t answer them. I think that\'s something...you\'ve got to look at him on the film and you\'ve got to evaluate what everybody thinks about him. I think he\'s a heck of a football player. He\'s aloof, but I think he\'s basically a pretty good kid.

Q: Coach, it seems like you haven\'t gotten a lot of production out of Jonathan Sullivan.
Haslett: Well, Jonathan hasn\'t played to the level that we thought, but Charles Grant\'s done a nice job and [Donte\'] Stallworth is really starting to play well. We\'ve got guys playing....Montrae Holland, who we drafted in the fourth round and Colby Bockwoldt, who we drafted in the seventh round - they\'re playing for us. So we\'ve got a few guys who I think will be good players in the future: Devery Henderson and John Stinchcomb. But Jonathan\'s a guy you\'d like to see be more productive.

Q: Who are some guys on the Falcons who stand out to you?
Haslett: I think they\'re doing a great job. Obviously, the quarterback and both running backs are running at a high level. The line\'s doing a nice job. Crumpler\'s the real deal. We\'ve faced so many tight ends this year who are on his level: [Tony] Gonzalez and [Antonio] Gates and him. It\'s unbelievable. I\'ve never seen this many good tight ends in the NFL. Their receivers are real explosive and I think the defense is really doing a nice job. They\'re playing solid, sound ball. They\'re playing hard and I think Jimmy has done a nice job with that team.

Q: Why do you think it is that there are so many good tight ends right now?
Haslett: That\'s a good question because I didn\'t think a couple years ago that there were this many. But really, Gates came out of nowhere, Crumpler just keeps getting better and better every year and Gonzalez has always been a good players. But there are other ones. Eric Johnson has done a nice job in San Francisco. We\'ve got a couple good tight ends. To me, there are just more quality tight ends then there have ever been.

Q: Could you talk about your friendship with Coach Mora. He talks about you as being someone he thinks a lot of.
Haslett: Well, Jim and I have a great relationship. So do our families. We worked together here for his father and that\'s where we became close. Jimmy\'s got a great mind for football. I was the coordinator one year he was the secondary coach and we really did it together and he\'s just, besides being - to me - a close friend, I think he\'s got a great football mind and he\'s very innovative. He gets along with players really well and I think he has the whole thing. Obviously, he\'s got a great pedigree too because he learned a lot from being around his father all those years.

Q: How much of what Mora\'s doing do you see in some of the things you guys like to do defensively?
Haslett: Jim does a great job. Him and Ed...I think Ed\'s done a great job with that defense, too. He gets the most out of players and he knows coverages and the blitzes and all that. He\'s done an excellent job.

Q: Do you notice that when you\'re on the road and thinking of challenging a play that the Jumbotron is less likely to show the replay and at home it\'s the reverse?
Haslett: Well I hope it works that way. We work it that way here.

Q: So you notice on the road that they\'ll almost never give you replays that\'ll help you out?
Haslett: If they did it here, they\'d get a tongue lashing on Monday.

.

Sure sounds like Haslett is playig up Sullivan\'s level of talent here Gumbo. Direct quote \"Jonathan is a guy you\'d like to see be more productive.\" \"Jonathan hasn\'t played to the level that we thought.\" Where\'s your link? This is straight from Haslett.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

saintwhodi --

You want a link where Haslett said Sullivan is a major talent?

Wait no longer!!

Quote:

\"He is getting better,\" Gullickson said. \"One of the philosophies that I have always held true is that you give a guy three years in your program and you should see some sign at that point where things are going to be good or not so good. We are kind of at that point this year.\"

Sullivan is a major talent, said Haslett, who traded up to the sixth pick in the 2003 draft to select him. He could be a top player in the league if he worked at it, Haslett said. The question is -- will he?

\"You know the old saying that you can lead the cow to the trough, but you can\'t make him drink the water,\" Haslett said. \"We will do everything possible we can as coaches that we need to do to get this kid to help us win football games and that is our goal this year.\"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...soffseason.ap/

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

Nice try Gumbo. But you been harping on this Haslett said Sullivan has talent mumbo jumbo since before this article was printed. Go back and read the earlier links I posted to discussions from this forum to see. Show me one prior to offseason workouts where they are trying to motivate a fat arse to not make them look like the asses they were for taking him. Mine was from during the season. Was Haslett saying Sully was talented then? Obviously not. But miraculously when they are trying to motivate his cottage cheese arse IN THE OFFSEASON he has major talent. Classic. Try again.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

:duel:

and now for round 10...

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

Kelley, didn\'t I tell you before it\'s more like :greenchainsaw: Keep up. ;)

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

Quote:

You asked for it ... I provided the info.

What more do you want, saintwhodi? Haslett said it. I told you he said it. I provided you with a link.

What more do you want? Just deal with it. :o

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

So the article was printed Mar. 25th, you have been saying Haslett said that since BEFORE Mar. 25th, and I should accept that mediocre attempt at proving your point? Unless you are a fortune teller, what you are basically doing is saying you predicted weeks ago Haslett would say that, and constantly used that in your arguments knowing full well that a few weeks down the road an article would come out with Haslett saying those exact words. Nice try. I am sure that would fly somewhere, but I am not that simple. I provided an article from DURING LAST SEASON where Haz was not so enamored with Sullivan. But if you can\'t find anything to back your claims from the time you started making them, I understand. Unless you wanna tell me you are a fortune teller, then I retract what I say. So Gum, you a fortune teller? :o :o :o :o :o

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

Quote:

I\'m going to play nice. I\'ll just stick to the topic at hand.

First of all ... Haslett NEVER said Sullivan did NOT have talent. And you NEVER provided a LINK where Haslett made that statement.

All you provided was a link in which Haslett said Sullivan wasn\'t playing up to expectations. WOW!! What a shocker, saintwhodi.

I, on the other hand, provided a RECENT article in which Haslett said Sullivan was very talented and could be one of the best.

I suppose Haslett might be a liar in the off-season. And, I suppose it\'s possible that Haslett always tells the truth during the season. (At least according to YOU)

This is laughable ... The basis of supporting your arguement is that Haslett told the truth in the regular season but he\'s lying in the off-season. Give me a break.

I don\'t want to EVER hear of you quoting Haslett in the off-season. It\'s lies. Nothing but damn lies.

In fact ... You shouldn\'t read anything Haslett says until the season starts.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

Um basically yes. Haslett has lied to us about this team every other off-season, why should this one be any different? Haslett ALWAYS says this player is a good addition or this player will make a difference or we have every confidence in this player. ALWAYS. Has Haslett EVER flat out said a player can not cut it? Except players he allowed to leave or traded that end up in the pro bwol the next year. Give me a break. Only to you would it be coincidence that the team states they are gonna do everythign in their power to help Sullivan, and then give him some positive reinforcement in the media by saying he is talented. Why am I not shocked the dots couldn\'t be connected? I still haven\'t heard you claim to be a fortune teller though, so I will take that for what it\'s worth.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

saintwhodi --

Like I said .. Do not quote Haslett in the off-season anymore.

Soon as I see you quote Haslett in the offseason, I\'m going to call you out.

And anytime Haslett says something during the season you had better acknowledge it as the TRUTH.

Don\'t forget.

Darren Howard MONDAY Buzz

That\'s all you got? Hell, I can deal with that. I thought you were gonna try to back up what you said, glad to see that didn\'t work out. :o

Have a good one. I think this thread died anyway and noone wants to read this personal stuff. If you wanna continue, PM me please. :D