The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

If I were the Saints, I would give up a 2nd round pick to move up and select an IMPACT linebacker.

Sure, we might find an impact player in the 2nd round. But, IMHO, it's very doubtful. The ONLY player we've gotten in the 2nd round of the draft that's played better than average is Darren Howard.

Not only would I do it for an IMPACT linebacker, I would also do it for a quality left tackle.

Of course ... whomever I moved up to get would have to be as close to a sure thing as possible. But if that player were available, I would not hesitate to pull the trigger.

NO?

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

#16 and #40 can get you to #7 in value points. That is Minny. If anything I think they will move up to be assured of getting Edwards or M. Williams. Throw in a 3rd or 4th and you can move up to #6 with TN. DJ is the only LB at the top of the board. the next true 4-3 LB\'s are mid-20\'s projections so they would be a stretch up in value at #16. here will be some good prospects at #40 but nowhere near like DJ. The only criticism I have heard about him is avoiding rather than shedding blocks. Nitpicking IMO. He may not be LT but is a pursuit machine that could come in, start, and have a strong impact immediately (especially considering the ?\'s now). He certainly would be the right choice this time for moving up if they chose to. Just as well though, I would be happy with more picks. #16 & #82= #31 & #35 of the eagles.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

What other IMPACT LB do you see in the first round besides DJ or were you implying him?? He should be the only LB gone by our pick unless you count Merriman. Although I have heard nothing but terrific things about Merriman, Im not sure he is the type of LB that we need for our defense. I think he is more of a 3-4 LB or end. But that is my personal opinion.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

Bad idea period. Besides DJ, there is not a big gap between all the linebackers that will be selected between the next group. I would absolutely not give up any draft picks to move up and draft a linebacker.

Honestly do you think trading an additional 2nd round pick could vault us into the top 7 picks? I don\'t think so. It would take more picks than that. So basically we would give up 3 quality picks for a DJ. Not worth it considering we have many more needs than 1 rookie linebacker who has a \"chance\" at becoming a superstar. But one linebacker isn\'t going to put us over the top. The 49ers have Julian Peterson and what? The Bears have Urlacher and what? The Dolphins have Zach Thomas and what?

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

papz --

First ... let me say I don\'t keep up with college football that much. Mainly I rely on you guys and the \"experts\" to tell me who the top draft prospects are.

Second -- I only meant that I would give up a second IF a true impact LB were avaliable. Maybe there isn\'t one in this draft. I dunno.

Also, we might not be a LB away from anything. But you\'ll have a hard time convincing me that we\'re a 2nd round draft pick away from being a true contender.

I think swapping our first pick and giving up a 2nd would move us up somewhat. How much, I don\'t know.

The point I was really making is that we need to get a play-making LB and we need to give something up if need be.

Historically, we haven\'t gotten many good players in the 2nd. Hell, I\'d give up a 2nd and 3rd to get a play-making linebacker.

2nd and 3rd rounders haven\'t made much of a difference on our team. And year after year we still need LBs.

Something has got to give.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

Gumbo, in other years I would agree with you. With some top quality LBs on the board, I would spend the picks. My worry with DJ, who would be the only person I would even possibly conceive trading up for, is that in college he seemed more to run around blockers instead of taking them on and shedding the blocks. This worries me because we arent exactly the surest tackling team in the league as is and a LB who might struggle in taking on blockers and defending the run makes me question whether hes even worth the trade up. I think that there is some real quality players that are gonna be available in the second and third rounds. But its up to the FO to get the right guys.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

My point is it is a bad idea this year. With all the talent out there, keeping our picks would be wise. DJ is slotted to be a top 7 selection. So basically it would take much more for a team to swap all the way down to the 16th spot and only wanting a 2nd rounder. With the extra picks, we could draft a quality corner, a young left tackle, and/or a linebacker. Getting a Carlos Rodgers, a Barnes or Terry, or a Burnett/Thurman sounds better to me than just one Derrick Johnson. Or does it? o_O

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

The Saints linebacker corps is one of the youngest if not the youngest in the league. Behind the starters there\'s Cie Grant and Sedrick Hodge. All five of these guys are still playing on their rookie contract.
I think you need a certain chemistry, a mix of leaders and followers but also a mix of young players and veterans. Bringing in another rookie LB to start wouldn\'t improve that chemistry. They needed to bring in a veteran LB through free agency and they didn\'t get it done.
DJ may overshadow this issue with pure talent, but because of my chemistry idea I\'m against giving up more than fair value for him - hell, I\'m even against giving up fair value for him when trading picks.
No other LB in the draft deserves the #16 pick.

Trading up for a quality left tackle though: Now we\'re talking. There are two tackles rumoured to go in the Top 20: Alex Barron and Jammal Brown. While Brown is available on a good number of mock drafts, I think tackle is such a priority for a lot of teams that they will both be gone.
You wouldn\'t need to trade up as high to get Barron as you would to get DJ. If he\'s there at #11 or #12, at least make an offer to Dallas or San Diego.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

You may be right, papz. I hear there are a lot of quality players that will be avaliable in the later rounds. Then again, I hear that just about every year.

I\'d like to think that we\'re going to draft players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds that will come in and make a difference in their rookie season. But .. from what I\'ve heard, not many guys in the first round are impact players.

In fact ... I\'ve read where this is a very weak draft in the first round.

Here\'s a question for anyone ...

Will there be a LB in the 2nd round that will be as good as Courtney Watson?

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

Those sound nice to me. Burnett would be great as Blackstock is not good against the run and the talent level drops off considerably after them. I wouldnt mind Carlos Rogers but I think the CB pool is rather deep this year and we could wait and pick up a quality cover guy. This means that I lean towards Jamaal Brown or Davis with the first pick although I wouldnt mind seeing Rogers. Maybe there is another FO in the league with the mental capabilities of ours and we can pull something off to get DJ without giving up an arm and a leg. One can only wish

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

2000 Darren Howard (stud)
2001 No 2nd rounder
2002 LeCharles Bentley (pro-bowler)
2003 Stinchcomb (back-up)
2004 Henderson
2004 Watson (promising starter)

Out of our last 5 2nd rounds picks, 3 are contributing starters, one is a pro-bowler, one is a top notch DE, one is a promising WR, and the jury is still out on Stinchcomb, a back-up.

I\'d say we\'ve done alright with our 2nd round picks so far.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

Danno --

I stand corrected. I forgot about Le\' Charles. So, maybe a second is more valuable than I orginally stated.

I\'m never afraid to admit when I\'m wrong. And I was wrong about the Saints when selecting in the second round.

But, I would still trade my 2nd for the right player.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

Gumbo,

I would say Kevin Burnett from Tennessee, Channing Crowder from Florida, and maybe Barrett Ruud from Nebraska and Odell Thurman from Georgia. I would say Burnett. But with the lack of depth at LB, he could slip into the end of the 1st round if New England is looking for someone to start replacing their aging LB core.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

:D Even I didn\'t realize how good the 2nd round had been to us. It is the 3rd round that we really suck at.

[Edited on 12/4/2005 by saintswhodi]

[Edited on 12/4/2005 by saintswhodi]

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

I would too, IF that player was DJ, and we picked up an additional 3rd.

But with the log jam of good (not exceptional) OLB\'s and MLB\'s available I wouldn\'t mind tading down either and getting 2 good LB\'s plus another pick to address OL, DT, CB, SS, QB etc.

This looks like a deep draft of good players. Its weak on the superstars but heavy on quality. Basically the kind of draft a team like the Pats would absolutely stock up on.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

Okay ...

Danno and papz (and the rest of you) have convinced me that trading up is too risky and trading down would probably be the safer move.


Like I said ... I don\'t keep up with college football that much.

I asked some questions and I\'m now much more informed.

Who said you can\'t learn anything here at B&G?


:D

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

I wonder what round Jackson, Johnson, Mills, and Swilling were drafted in?

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

If we trade down and \"stock up\" with maybe two decent LB\'s and then a good cornerback, then we haven\'t really improved our team at all because we just drafted decent LB\'s to go with our already decent/bad LB\'s already on the team. I realize that this draft is weak on the superstar talent, but trading down to get mediocre players will just make us a mediocre team. Trading up to get a superstar might actually improve our porous defense. I could be totally wrong, what do y\'all think?

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

Personally I don\'t feel we\'re talking about mediocre players in the late 1st/2nd round. I think there are plenty of good players there. More so than in years past. They\'ll certainly be upgrades over Allen / Hodge / Bockwoldt / Ruff / Rogers.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

Danno,

I agree with you on that one. I think the players that will be available in the second round are very sound and definetly an upgrade over anyone we have now(except maybe Watson). Im not sold on Bockwoldt yet, never have been on Allen and Hodge, and I love Rodgers but he doesnt have it anymore. Im all about trading down, and maybe trading up for the right price, but I dont see that happening unless another team gets incredibly desperate to trade down.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

From all the reports I\'ve studied, I think DJ is on par prospect wise with DJ Williams and Jonathan Vilma from last year.
But after DJ I think there are several OLB\'s that are on par with Karlos Dansby from last years draft. I think he made a solid contributuion this past year with \'Zona didn\'t he?

As for the MLB\'s I don\'t see any prospects that equal Vilma. But its got a few on par with Courtney Watson. This is the year we should probably draft TWO LB\'s. I think we could still get a decent LB in the 3rd. Kinda like a James Allen with instincs or a Sedrick Hodge with nads.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

Danno,
for the OLBs I think you summed it up perfect. As far the MLBs, I would give Crowder a step above Watson, despite the injury and character concerns, but I think you summed everything in this post into a few sentences. Quite impressed by the conciseness of your posts. LOL.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

This year, there\'s only one prime rib, but theres a whole bunch of filets to chose from before you have to settle for ground chuck.
;)

Yup, its almost lunchtime and I\'m starving.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

Yeah, I guess I could see that point. I guess there are a lot of good LB\'s, just not great. The only point I was making was that our LB\'s are awful. I\'m not sold on Bockwoldt at all. Watson could be a good role player because what he lacks in talent, he makes up for with his great knowledge of the position. Rodgers doesn\'t have it anymore. Hodge is talented but is injured entirely too much. I guess the point I was trying to make is that we need to get some real talent in the linebacking corps. Maybe I understated the talent of this year\'s LB class, but I really think we need a young LB to build a defense around, a real IMPACT player.

[Edited on 13/4/2005 by TheDeuce]

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

youth isn\'t the problem LOL. it needed a hartwell-pierce-sharper veteran presence imo.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

I wasn\'t making a point about youth. I\'m saying we need talent. And actually some people feel we do need youth and more speed: http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2027697

But i wasn\'t necessarily talking about youth, I was talking about getting TALENT, something our LB\'s don\'t have a lot of.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

agreed

thanks to any n all who post pay-for material too. anybody have espn insider for the full text of this article?

kinda fluff to say they need to draft someone to push allen while a paragraph above say neither bock or fisher is a capable starter. more precisely 2 lb\'s are needed. scary thing about this front office is remembering how many years was a quality cb needed before they went out and got one. :brood:

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

I\'d have to disagree a tad. DJ is clearly better than DJ Williams and Vilma. Clearly better instincts than DJ Williams. Better physical specimen and more raw talent than Vilma. He\'s not much better than either of them, but definitely a couple of notches above them. But hey, you are entitled to your opinion.

I\'d say Crowder has more potential than Watson. He\'s already more talented. Motivation is the key for him.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

haha LK i agree with you about the FO. and sorry about the ESPN insider article, i\'m new to b&g as you can probably tell. the article\'s title was \"Saints need youth and speed on D\"

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

welcome aboard deucey. take your shoes off and make yourself at home, i have.

----
i agree tomb. dj is a sure impact starter with the all pro potential. i think the rap on the avoiding blocks is nitpicking and might end up showcasing his lateral pursuit and pass coverage.

[Edited on 13/4/2005 by LKelley67]

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

Kelley, ask and ye shall receive:

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

thanks. written before mayberry? no mention of him.

The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB
 

they are just listing needs, so they didn\'t mention any guards. Notice how they say Stinch will play RT.