The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB

GumboBC · 04-12-2005, 02:47 PM

If I were the Saints, I would give up a 2nd round pick to move up and select an IMPACT linebacker.

Sure, we might find an impact player in the 2nd round. But, IMHO, it's very doubtful. The ONLY player we've gotten in the 2nd round of the draft that's played better than average is Darren Howard.

Not only would I do it for an IMPACT linebacker, I would also do it for a quality left tackle.

Of course ... whomever I moved up to get would have to be as close to a sure thing as possible. But if that player were available, I would not hesitate to pull the trigger.

NO?

LKelley67 · 04-12-2005, 04:05 PM

#16 and #40 can get you to #7 in value points. That is Minny. If anything I think they will move up to be assured of getting Edwards or M. Williams. Throw in a 3rd or 4th and you can move up to #6 with TN. DJ is the only LB at the top of the board. the next true 4-3 LB\'s are mid-20\'s projections so they would be a stretch up in value at #16. here will be some good prospects at #40 but nowhere near like DJ. The only criticism I have heard about him is avoiding rather than shedding blocks. Nitpicking IMO. He may not be LT but is a pursuit machine that could come in, start, and have a strong impact immediately (especially considering the ?\'s now). He certainly would be the right choice this time for moving up if they chose to. Just as well though, I would be happy with more picks. #16 & #82= #31 & #35 of the eagles.

BRSaintsFan · 04-12-2005, 04:08 PM

What other IMPACT LB do you see in the first round besides DJ or were you implying him?? He should be the only LB gone by our pick unless you count Merriman. Although I have heard nothing but terrific things about Merriman, Im not sure he is the type of LB that we need for our defense. I think he is more of a 3-4 LB or end. But that is my personal opinion.

papz · 04-12-2005, 04:21 PM

Bad idea period. Besides DJ, there is not a big gap between all the linebackers that will be selected between the next group. I would absolutely not give up any draft picks to move up and draft a linebacker.

Honestly do you think trading an additional 2nd round pick could vault us into the top 7 picks? I don\'t think so. It would take more picks than that. So basically we would give up 3 quality picks for a DJ. Not worth it considering we have many more needs than 1 rookie linebacker who has a \"chance\" at becoming a superstar. But one linebacker isn\'t going to put us over the top. The 49ers have Julian Peterson and what? The Bears have Urlacher and what? The Dolphins have Zach Thomas and what?

GumboBC · 04-12-2005, 04:29 PM

papz --

First ... let me say I don\'t keep up with college football that much. Mainly I rely on you guys and the \"experts\" to tell me who the top draft prospects are.

Second -- I only meant that I would give up a second IF a true impact LB were avaliable. Maybe there isn\'t one in this draft. I dunno.

Also, we might not be a LB away from anything. But you\'ll have a hard time convincing me that we\'re a 2nd round draft pick away from being a true contender.

I think swapping our first pick and giving up a 2nd would move us up somewhat. How much, I don\'t know.

The point I was really making is that we need to get a play-making LB and we need to give something up if need be.

Historically, we haven\'t gotten many good players in the 2nd. Hell, I\'d give up a 2nd and 3rd to get a play-making linebacker.

2nd and 3rd rounders haven\'t made much of a difference on our team. And year after year we still need LBs.

Something has got to give.

BRSaintsFan · 04-12-2005, 04:42 PM

Gumbo, in other years I would agree with you. With some top quality LBs on the board, I would spend the picks. My worry with DJ, who would be the only person I would even possibly conceive trading up for, is that in college he seemed more to run around blockers instead of taking them on and shedding the blocks. This worries me because we arent exactly the surest tackling team in the league as is and a LB who might struggle in taking on blockers and defending the run makes me question whether hes even worth the trade up. I think that there is some real quality players that are gonna be available in the second and third rounds. But its up to the FO to get the right guys.

papz · 04-12-2005, 04:54 PM

My point is it is a bad idea this year. With all the talent out there, keeping our picks would be wise. DJ is slotted to be a top 7 selection. So basically it would take much more for a team to swap all the way down to the 16th spot and only wanting a 2nd rounder. With the extra picks, we could draft a quality corner, a young left tackle, and/or a linebacker. Getting a Carlos Rodgers, a Barnes or Terry, or a Burnett/Thurman sounds better to me than just one Derrick Johnson. Or does it? o_O

no_cloning · 04-12-2005, 05:02 PM

The Saints linebacker corps is one of the youngest if not the youngest in the league. Behind the starters there\'s Cie Grant and Sedrick Hodge. All five of these guys are still playing on their rookie contract.
I think you need a certain chemistry, a mix of leaders and followers but also a mix of young players and veterans. Bringing in another rookie LB to start wouldn\'t improve that chemistry. They needed to bring in a veteran LB through free agency and they didn\'t get it done.
DJ may overshadow this issue with pure talent, but because of my chemistry idea I\'m against giving up more than fair value for him - hell, I\'m even against giving up fair value for him when trading picks.
No other LB in the draft deserves the #16 pick.

Trading up for a quality left tackle though: Now we\'re talking. There are two tackles rumoured to go in the Top 20: Alex Barron and Jammal Brown. While Brown is available on a good number of mock drafts, I think tackle is such a priority for a lot of teams that they will both be gone.
You wouldn\'t need to trade up as high to get Barron as you would to get DJ. If he\'s there at #11 or #12, at least make an offer to Dallas or San Diego.

GumboBC · 04-12-2005, 05:03 PM

My point is it is a bad idea this year. With all the talent out there, keeping our picks would be wise. DJ is slotted to be a top 7 selection. So basically it would take much more for a team to swap all the way down to the 16th spot and only wanting a 2nd rounder. With the extra picks, we could draft a quality corner, a young left tackle, and/or a linebacker. Getting a Carlos Rodgers, a Barnes or Terry, or a Burnett/Thurman sounds better to me than just one Derrick Johnson. Or does it? o_O

You may be right, papz. I hear there are a lot of quality players that will be avaliable in the later rounds. Then again, I hear that just about every year.

I\'d like to think that we\'re going to draft players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds that will come in and make a difference in their rookie season. But .. from what I\'ve heard, not many guys in the first round are impact players.

In fact ... I\'ve read where this is a very weak draft in the first round.

Here\'s a question for anyone ...

Will there be a LB in the 2nd round that will be as good as Courtney Watson?

BRSaintsFan · 04-12-2005, 05:04 PM

Those sound nice to me. Burnett would be great as Blackstock is not good against the run and the talent level drops off considerably after them. I wouldnt mind Carlos Rogers but I think the CB pool is rather deep this year and we could wait and pick up a quality cover guy. This means that I lean towards Jamaal Brown or Davis with the first pick although I wouldnt mind seeing Rogers. Maybe there is another FO in the league with the mental capabilities of ours and we can pull something off to get DJ without giving up an arm and a leg. One can only wish

04-12-2005, 02:47 PM	#1
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB If I were the Saints, I would give up a 2nd round pick to move up and select an IMPACT linebacker. Sure, we might find an impact player in the 2nd round. But, IMHO, it's very doubtful. The ONLY player we've gotten in the 2nd round of the draft that's played better than average is Darren Howard. Not only would I do it for an IMPACT linebacker, I would also do it for a quality left tackle. Of course ... whomever I moved up to get would have to be as close to a sure thing as possible. But if that player were available, I would not hesitate to pull the trigger. NO?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-12-2005, 04:05 PM	#2
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB #16 and #40 can get you to #7 in value points. That is Minny. If anything I think they will move up to be assured of getting Edwards or M. Williams. Throw in a 3rd or 4th and you can move up to #6 with TN. DJ is the only LB at the top of the board. the next true 4-3 LB\'s are mid-20\'s projections so they would be a stretch up in value at #16. here will be some good prospects at #40 but nowhere near like DJ. The only criticism I have heard about him is avoiding rather than shedding blocks. Nitpicking IMO. He may not be LT but is a pursuit machine that could come in, start, and have a strong impact immediately (especially considering the ?\'s now). He certainly would be the right choice this time for moving up if they chose to. Just as well though, I would be happy with more picks. #16 & #82= #31 & #35 of the eagles.

04-12-2005, 04:21 PM	#4
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,737	The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB Bad idea period. Besides DJ, there is not a big gap between all the linebackers that will be selected between the next group. I would absolutely not give up any draft picks to move up and draft a linebacker. Honestly do you think trading an additional 2nd round pick could vault us into the top 7 picks? I don\'t think so. It would take more picks than that. So basically we would give up 3 quality picks for a DJ. Not worth it considering we have many more needs than 1 rookie linebacker who has a \"chance\" at becoming a superstar. But one linebacker isn\'t going to put us over the top. The 49ers have Julian Peterson and what? The Bears have Urlacher and what? The Dolphins have Zach Thomas and what?
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

04-12-2005, 04:29 PM	#5
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB papz -- First ... let me say I don\'t keep up with college football that much. Mainly I rely on you guys and the \"experts\" to tell me who the top draft prospects are. Second -- I only meant that I would give up a second IF a true impact LB were avaliable. Maybe there isn\'t one in this draft. I dunno. Also, we might not be a LB away from anything. But you\'ll have a hard time convincing me that we\'re a 2nd round draft pick away from being a true contender. I think swapping our first pick and giving up a 2nd would move us up somewhat. How much, I don\'t know. The point I was really making is that we need to get a play-making LB and we need to give something up if need be. Historically, we haven\'t gotten many good players in the 2nd. Hell, I\'d give up a 2nd and 3rd to get a play-making linebacker. 2nd and 3rd rounders haven\'t made much of a difference on our team. And year after year we still need LBs. Something has got to give.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-12-2005, 04:54 PM	#7
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,737	The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB My point is it is a bad idea this year. With all the talent out there, keeping our picks would be wise. DJ is slotted to be a top 7 selection. So basically it would take much more for a team to swap all the way down to the 16th spot and only wanting a 2nd rounder. With the extra picks, we could draft a quality corner, a young left tackle, and/or a linebacker. Getting a Carlos Rodgers, a Barnes or Terry, or a Burnett/Thurman sounds better to me than just one Derrick Johnson. Or does it? o_O
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

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04-12-2005, 04:08 PM	#3
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB What other IMPACT LB do you see in the first round besides DJ or were you implying him?? He should be the only LB gone by our pick unless you count Merriman. Although I have heard nothing but terrific things about Merriman, Im not sure he is the type of LB that we need for our defense. I think he is more of a 3-4 LB or end. But that is my personal opinion.

04-12-2005, 04:42 PM	#6
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB Gumbo, in other years I would agree with you. With some top quality LBs on the board, I would spend the picks. My worry with DJ, who would be the only person I would even possibly conceive trading up for, is that in college he seemed more to run around blockers instead of taking them on and shedding the blocks. This worries me because we arent exactly the surest tackling team in the league as is and a LB who might struggle in taking on blockers and defending the run makes me question whether hes even worth the trade up. I think that there is some real quality players that are gonna be available in the second and third rounds. But its up to the FO to get the right guys.

04-12-2005, 05:02 PM	#8
no_cloning 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 249	The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB The Saints linebacker corps is one of the youngest if not the youngest in the league. Behind the starters there\'s Cie Grant and Sedrick Hodge. All five of these guys are still playing on their rookie contract. I think you need a certain chemistry, a mix of leaders and followers but also a mix of young players and veterans. Bringing in another rookie LB to start wouldn\'t improve that chemistry. They needed to bring in a veteran LB through free agency and they didn\'t get it done. DJ may overshadow this issue with pure talent, but because of my chemistry idea I\'m against giving up more than fair value for him - hell, I\'m even against giving up fair value for him when trading picks. No other LB in the draft deserves the #16 pick. Trading up for a quality left tackle though: Now we\'re talking. There are two tackles rumoured to go in the Top 20: Alex Barron and Jammal Brown. While Brown is available on a good number of mock drafts, I think tackle is such a priority for a lot of teams that they will both be gone. You wouldn\'t need to trade up as high to get Barron as you would to get DJ. If he\'s there at #11 or #12, at least make an offer to Dallas or San Diego.
no_cloning 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 249

04-12-2005, 05:03 PM	#9
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB My point is it is a bad idea this year. With all the talent out there, keeping our picks would be wise. DJ is slotted to be a top 7 selection. So basically it would take much more for a team to swap all the way down to the 16th spot and only wanting a 2nd rounder. With the extra picks, we could draft a quality corner, a young left tackle, and/or a linebacker. Getting a Carlos Rodgers, a Barnes or Terry, or a Burnett/Thurman sounds better to me than just one Derrick Johnson. Or does it? o_O You may be right, papz. I hear there are a lot of quality players that will be avaliable in the later rounds. Then again, I hear that just about every year. I\'d like to think that we\'re going to draft players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds that will come in and make a difference in their rookie season. But .. from what I\'ve heard, not many guys in the first round are impact players. In fact ... I\'ve read where this is a very weak draft in the first round. Here\'s a question for anyone ... Will there be a LB in the 2nd round that will be as good as Courtney Watson?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-12-2005, 05:04 PM	#10
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	The Draft and what I would give up for a TOP LB Those sound nice to me. Burnett would be great as Blackstock is not good against the run and the talent level drops off considerably after them. I wouldnt mind Carlos Rogers but I think the CB pool is rather deep this year and we could wait and pick up a quality cover guy. This means that I lean towards Jamaal Brown or Davis with the first pick although I wouldnt mind seeing Rogers. Maybe there is another FO in the league with the mental capabilities of ours and we can pull something off to get DJ without giving up an arm and a leg. One can only wish