I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

I don't think I can ever recall a time when I've seen more bitter Saints' fans than what I do today. Not even back when the the Saints were 3-13 or whatever their worst season(s) were.

I can understand it to a certain extent. But I just won't let myself be swayed by other fan's pessimisim.

When I look at the 2005 Saints, I see a team that COULD possibly be one of the most talented teams in the NFC.

At receiver we've got Joe Horn, Donte' Stallworth, and Devery Henderson. Possibly the fastest WR corp in the NFL!

At RB we've got Deuce McAllister. A top five RB when healthy.

At QB we've got Aaron Brooks ... who is much better than what he is given credit for. And, say what you want, but Brooks' has been placed in a bad situation for the past few years.

Now, the offesive line is a concern ... but Mayberry will help. And Le Charles should be better at "center" this year.

This offense has all the components to be a dynamic and explosive unit. And they've PROVED in the past they can score as many points as anyone.

NOW FOR THE DEFENSE!!

The good news first!!!!!!!!!

The secondary is no longer a concern.

About middle-ways through last season we singed CB Mike McKenzie. Someone we desperately needed.

And Fakir Brown proved to be a solid #2 CB.

Add free-agent Dwight Smith at FS and now our secondary is set!!

Now ... for the bad news!!!

We need ONE LB. And in a very BIG way. While I'm not in love with Courtney Watson ... I do believe he's a solid, if not spectacular LB. And I believe he will excel at WLB. But I think he'll do okay at MLB.

And I think Bockwoldt is going to silence all of his critics this year.

We need Sullivan to step his game up or we need to solidify the DT with someone else.

To wrap this up:

This team is closer to having a complete team than at any other time in Saints' history. That includes the Jim Mora coached teams. And that includes the 2000 team that won the playoff game.

There are some fans who aren't going to believe this and won't believe ANYTHING until they see it with their own eyes. And that's fine.

Nothing is a given in the NFL. This Saints team could finish anywhere from 5-11 to 12-4, IMHO.

But ... with a little luck on draft day and a little luck during the season ... this could very well be the year!!!

Keep the faith!!




[Edited on 19/4/2005 by GumboBC]

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Oh brother. So 13-3 right? :icon_eyesroll:

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Except for all the teams that BEAT us... ;)

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

There is not one single item you listed that I realistically disagree with.

But I\'m sure the pessimists are mounting their feeble attacks as I type. ;)

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Oops, I see a couple have already beat me to the punch.
Never underestimate a pessimist\'s trigger finger.

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

LOL! So my objection to \"the offense has proven they can score as many points as anyone\" was \"feeble?\"

:P

[Edited on 19/4/2005 by mutineer10]

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

No actually that was quite clever. A lil on the smart-arse side but really quite clever. ;)

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

I suppose my point is that it\'s impossible to predict if the 2005 Saints are a playoff team or not.

I mean ... as bad as we were in \'04 ... we were as close to making the playoffs as anyone could possibly be. So, if you\'re realistic, then you can\'t possibly say we don\'t have a very good chance.

And that goes for the past 3-years!!!

WE\'VE BEEN AS CLOSE AS ANYONE!!!!

Based on the past ... then ... there\'s just as good a reason to be optimistic.

But, anyone can always choose to be pessimistic.

BUT WHY?

Last season ended on a 4-game winning streak. A streak, by the way, in which the defense FINIALLY showed they can play.

And in the last game we whipped the hottest team in the NFL who was fighting for their playoff life!!


And we beat \'em in their own back yard.

This group of players in New Orleans played like a TEAM.

You gotta believe!!!

Or you can throw in the towel!!

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

So being sarcastic about someone predicting 13-3(which noone did, it was hypothetical based on previous predictions), is pessimistic? Wow. So I guess some do feel we will be 13-3. Pardon me as I go laugh uncontrollably. ;)

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Let\'s break it down and see if there\'s anything \"UN-REALISTIC\" about Gumbo\'s post.

Agreed
As many experts will also agree.
Yep, so far so good.
Debateable, but hardly an unrealistic observation.
Absolutely!
I\'d say at least they can score as much as MOST teams. Maybe not every team, but most. But I\'m nit-picking.
Hardly an unrealistic observation.

Maybe depth a SS is still an issue but the starters are definitely not the weak link. So far so good.

Nothing unrealistic there. I guess the one LB would be a James Allen replacement?
Yep, I agree. Although I think the answer at DT is gonna come from Green/Leisle/Bryant/Draft pick/trade etc...
5-11 is a little unrealistic, barring catostrophic injuries but I\'m nit-picking the main point.
Yep. You are right. The only knock I see on your bad-news analysis is that we still have Venturi coaching this defense. I hope the whispers about him actually being a puppet DC this year are true.

Hard to find anything unrealistic about that post.

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

So it was more of a shot at the poster himself more so than the content of his post. Hmmm, I see. ;) That seems fair. :casstet:

You are officially excused to go laugh uncontrollably now.

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Seriously, I like to think we\'ll be better than last year. I can\'t say we\'ve really lost anyone significant (except maybe Pathon, and he\'s very replace-able). If the draft is conducted appropriately, we could end up situated to have a pretty good season. I\'m not a big fan of predictions in April, but I don\'t think 10-6 is unreasonable ... maybe even a little better.

Mayberry can only help the O-line, though how much remains to be seen. Smith was a nice pickup, both as an insurance policy and to back up Deuce. 3rd wide out is a concern, especially if Stallworth or Horn can\'t stay healthy, but hopefully Henderson will surprise. Meier is young, but seems to have promise.

As always, defense is the primary concern. The DT position really needs someone to step up and complement Young, but we should be pretty deep at DE even if Howard is traded. I\'m praying for a miracle at LB, as I\'m not totally sold on any player on the roster there. CB concerns me ... even if Brown proves ready to start, there\'s not alot of depth there. FS should be covered for the next few years ... not so much at SS. Defense is obviously where the \"appropriate drafting\" needs to take place.

In closing, I\'m not necessarily \"pessimistic\" about the season, it\'s FAR too early to feel that way. But we can\'t deny that serious needs must be met on the defensive side of the ball if we hope to get over the hump we\'ve been stuck on the last 4 years.

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Actually, it\'s a shot at the notion that if you pick anything but a winning record for the Saints, you are a pessimist. And I am still LMAO thank you very much. ;)

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

I\'ve never heard anyone say that.
I have heard some people harp on everything negative they can possibly think of anytime anyone mentions anything positive about this team or any player on this team or any player we\'re thinking about drafting, i.e. a good looking CB prospect.
Oh, and you are welcome by the way. But have you really been laughing for 2 hours and 19 minutes about your belief that your sarcasm was somehow misconstured as pessimism?
I didn\'t really find it all that hillarious. ;)

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Gumbo I think that was a great post. You made some really good points and I think it is easy to find reasons to be optimistic about this Saints team. Overall we have a good team, we just need to fill some key holes. I think that we are very close to the kind of team that could make a good playoff run. TD or DJ!!!!!!!

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Who are these \"some people?\" I have not heard anyone be negative about EVERY aspect of this team. Let\'s name names. Anyone on this board? Who? Show me one person that has said NOTHING positive about this team at all ever, and also goes so far as to shoot down draft picks. I don\'t think you can. :P

Yup, still laughing. It will always be hilarious to me as long as these labels of optimist verse pessimist remains. That\'s just funny, funny stuff. I would consider a pessimist someone who predicted 0-16, haven\'t heard anyone say that. But even I can find good in 0-16, cause it equals Matt Leinart. So that\'s not pessimistic either. I am trying to discern where these pessimists are, and how drawing a conclusion based on ALL the history of this team can be considered pessimistic at all. Little help?

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

LOL. When was the last offseason that you didn\'t make this type of statement?


We sign ONE player who MIGHT be able to play at a top 5 position of need, and you\'re ready for us to go to the Super Bowl. We sign ONE PLAYER TO THE 32nd RANKED DEFENSE and that\'s major progress apparently. It\'s a good thing too - b/c our safeties are going to be doing a lot of tackling this year given out DTs and LBs.


Typical. 28 teams have gone to the playoffs in the last 4 years, but hey, we\'ve been close!! There\'s no reason to think we won\'t this year. Uh... REALITY CHECK - there are ALL of the same reasons as last season... and the one before... and the one before... er wait, did I miss where you said last season that if only the Saints had a new FS and RG they\'d be Super Bowl bound.


Faith (n): Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

Yeah, that\'s about right.

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Typical WhoDat. I\'m glad you\'r back. ;) It\'s never been about the players WhoDat. You yourself have said that before. So why harp on the players we didn\'t sign?
Typical. 28 teams have gone to the playoffs in the last 4 years, but hey, we\'ve been close!! There\'s no reason to think we won\'t this year. Uh... REALITY CHECK - there are ALL of the same reasons as last season... and the one before... and the one before...[/quote:91174a386c]Uh...FACT CHECK - Every year of the Haslett/Loomis/Meuller regime has actually been different. From total makeover to continuity/tweaking. Its been far from the same thing every offseason. In fact the only constant from day one has been the staff. And it appears that has changed this year, if the whispers of Venturi having less power are true, even if only slightly.

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

I think you know exactly whom I\'m referring. If the shoe fits...

;)

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

I\'m speechless --- bitter fans - I think not -- I think we are the realists on this forum. Every offseason I am optimisitc -- every offdseason I look back at the previous season and see reasons why we are a playoff team -- every offseason I look at our roster and say we have a playoff team -- every offseason I dream of bigger and better things for the Saints -- only thing is -- that is offseason -- noew let us look at every season -- I see huge inconsistency -- I see dissappointment at every turn -- I see a team that plays with no heart or passion -- I see a team that self distructs -- I see a team that blames the fans, the stadium, the weather, the stars -- just about anything that stops them from looking inside themselves for the answer -- and you know what -- every year I cheer -- every year I pay the price for season tickets -- every year = so forgive me if I do not enter the season wildly thinking they are going to the super bowl -- its good enough that I go out and cheer and hope -- I do not need to raise expectations

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Why, the very idea that someone who has followed the Saints for all this time would be pessimistic!!! Some people....there is just no pleasing some people.

Seriously, though. The fact that we have only won one playoff game in 38 years...that is REAL. The notion that we will go to the Superbowl this year or deep into the playoffs this year despite all of our past failures...that is a FANTASY!! Some people need to be able to sort out between the two.

Also, going to a place where you are going to find 100% of the people in attendance to be Saint fans, and expecting to find a normal amount of pessimist vs optimist is absurd. It would be different if you were going to a forum of any team who had just a reasonable amount of success in the past. Personally, in this particular case, I think the people who show a huge amount of optimism despite the past are the ones that have something to prove. PROVE TO US THAT THIS YEAR WILL BE ANY DIFFERENT THAN ANY YEAR IN THE PAST. The problem is that you can\'t. Unfortunately, all the talking and predicting will not make winners out of the Saints. It has to be done on the field.

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

we\'ve been close, close to the playoffs, if we have a little luck in the draft, a little luck in the season, maybe, somehow...

sure i HOPE for that. (see hopeful realist thread)

i however do not preceive the substance within this organization to have FAITH in that though. i would much prefer an organization that inspired faith. jeff fisher as a coach inspires confidence whether his team went to the superbowl or was 5-11 last year. the team with a very similar character and record as this one, minnesota, had a front office that took bold action after several years of mediocrity at the fringes of the playoffs. i am not satisfied with a team that just eeks into the playoffs. i am not satisfied with just not being the bottom tier and playing .500 ball. i want an organization that will be satisfied with nothing less than a ring. and even more important, a front office that makes clear statements they are doing all in their power to bring a championship, a coaching staff that has a clear vision and knows how to implement it, and players that show both their ability and determination to win.

was the four game run at the end of the season nice? oh yeah. the carolina game looked like the team of some of the goals i stated above. but then they were the antitype against arizona and denver. that erraticness is the mo now proven over 4 years. it will take a full season of performance like those last four games (with several of the carolina-like stand-up performances) to get to the next level.

belief comes from substantial performance, the substance doesn\'t materialize from fans believing.

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Yeah, if the shoe fits, it\'s usually cause Danno filled it with :icon_bs: Let\'s see how. I have never knocked Bentley, Watson, Deuce, Stallworth, Grant, Smith, McKenzie(actually defended him during his recent rants), Montrae, Fakhir, applauded getting Dwight Smith, applauded Mayberry if he is gonna play guard.

In the draft I have said I would love DJ, Mike Williams, Thomas Davis, one of the top QBs if they fell, Rolle, Barron, Nugent the kicker in the 2nd if we have an extra pick, Campbell, McPherson, Anthony Davis as a backup RB, Chris Henry, Vincent Jackson, or the WR from Purdue Stubblefield in the late rounds. So in summary, in order to place yourself as an optimist you make up stuff about someone and call them a pessimist. Thanks for making that clear.

[Edited on 20/4/2005 by saintswhodi]

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Show me some of that BS junior. And did I call you out specifically or did you assume I was referring to you.
For the record I don\'t consider you nearly as pessimistic as the vast majority of posters on this board. I think you think I\'m referring to anyone who is critical is a pessimist. Nothing could be farther form the truth. I\'ve been critical of many things. Doesn\'t mean I\'m a pessimist.
You do, more often than not, give valid reasons for you\'re criticisms. Thats not pessimism. I don\'t think you understand what pessimism truly is.

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

But I think I do cause like I said, the pessimist would predict 0-16, and noone has done that. I asked for a person who does what you said, which is NEVER say anything good about the Saints and poo-pooed ALL draft picks. You said if the shoe fits. Now since I was the one asking, I would have to draw the line that it was directed to me. But if not, I apologize. I still though don\'t see anyone who is as pessimistic as you are claiming. Maybe you are confusing pessimism with skepticism? SO can it be the optimists verse the skeptics? Olive branch? :D

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Well, this thread is going incredibly amicably for a thread that is about posters and not about football. Kudos.

The pessimism/optimism/realism debate is not a debate about football. Sure, people mention football in order to show who is a pessimist/optimist and claim they are the realist, but otherwise this has no real football content.

I suggest that someone show me how this relates to Saints Football, OR I suggest that I will move these to the Everything Else board.

I\'m not terribly opposed to stuff that is a bit off track if it bring members of the board together, but I\'m not sure that this discussion is such a thing.

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

That\'s bringing people together Kool. ;)

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

True.

But I think you took my meaning.

:dancing:

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Yeah, I\'d classify you (and probably WhoDat also) as more skeptical than pessimistic. I\'d say a bit overly-skeptical but thats my opinion. I know you\'ve read time and time again the pessimism posts that litter nearly every Saints forum I know of.
Anyway we\'re getting off topic. PM me if you\'d like to discuss further.
I wanna talk football.

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

:salute:

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

So go back to the other thread where I brought football into a non-football thread, which both of these were.

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

good job koolio. i posted in here but frankly this kinda crap does nothing but tire ya out, pissin n moanin about each other.

hey, wassup with the no posting on the draft pick threads? for as engaged as folks seemed to be about doing scouting and front office work the lack of response kinda baffles me.

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Honestly Kelley, I think we are all so beat down from all the threads on the draft, picks, Howard, etc. most are just waiting for the draft to start and be over so we can discuss in a new direction. You got a fever most can\'t match man. :cool:

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

LK,

I was wondering about that myself.

I\'ve noticed though that threads that have extra rules about participation usually get fewer responses. Also, for all the pissing contests about who is the better predictor, etc. that occur around here, I note that very few predictions actually get made.

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

LOL, i guess pondering if LeFors is more likely a 4th or 5th rounder is pretty bad.

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

I think 5th. His arm strength is in question, isn\'t it?

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

Now that is true. If it takes any measure of going beyond simply reading an article, voicing your opinion, and defending it, doesn\'t seem like much response is garnered. I know I am that way. I like discussing the topics, without it being formatted, which doing things like mock drafts and such are. Not that it couldn\'t be fun, but I am mainly on here at work and that would be TOO much abuse of power to do all that research. ;)

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

I love this argument. It\'s one of my favorite.

Everything has been different!!... except the results. LOL


HOW the Saints have gone about failing at bucking mediocrity has changed each year, I don\'t argue that. In fact, I\'ve said that the \"new and improved\" strategy that Haslett installs every year (new offensive mentality this year, tweeking/gelling the year before, defensive makeover to speed a year earlier, defensive makeover to big before that...) is a big part of the problem, IMO.


But you ignore the relevant issue. The bottom line is that the Saints have continued to refuse to ADEQUATELY address the major areas of need. Do you dispute that? They continue to try to prove that they can outsmart the rest of the league by passing on Trufant and signing Sullivan, passing on Claiborne to sign Ruff, etc.


But maybe you\'re right Danno. Maybe the Saints are incredibly innovative. Afterall, how many teams in the league could employ this wide an array of different strategies and tactics year in and year out and consistently produce nearly the exact same results?

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

But maybe I never said that they were incredibly innovative.

But maybe you\'re right WhoDat. Even if we addressed the major needs we\'d still suck.

Maybe you\'re right WhoDat, Joe Horn IS an over-rated selfish player.

Maybe you\'re right WhoDat, AB is THE only reason we\'re not 4-12.

Hey this is fun...

Maybe you\'re right WhoDat...Deuce, Bentley, Horn, Howard and Grant are all team cancers and should be cut immediatley.

You may think all those things but personally I don\'t think so. ;)

Lets try to keep it realistic, shall we?


No, thats why I gave them this off-season grade...
Danno-\"Addressing the major needs, D\"
Do you need a link?

[Edited on 20/4/2005 by Danno]

I'm an OPTIMISTIC REALIST
 

[musing]

..what ever happened with the \"middle ground\"?
..why is it that, if you are not an \"optimist\", you are \"pessimist\"?
...what ever happened to skepticism?

..you cannot be an \"optimist\" and a \"realist\" at the same time...

..a train leaves St Louis for Chicago, and it is half way there...
Optimist - \"it will make it to Chicago\"
Realist - \"it is half way there\"
Pessimist - \" it will never get there\"
Optimist - \" how can you say that? The train left the station in perfect shape and the conductor has years of experience running that route\"
Pessimist - \" a cow can cross the tracks and de-rail the train... the conductor can have a hard attack..\"
Realist - \" it\'s half way there\"...

[/musing]