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Crusader 03-06-2018 12:59 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
His old teammates seem to want him back and that is enough for me as long as he can produce.

saintfan 03-06-2018 01:19 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 793693)
No. While somewhat similar the Suggs case was not the same. Suggs was not franchised. His grievance was over his negotiated salary and an arbiter agreed that he was basically a DE and should be paid as one.

The Graham case was based upon franchise position designation. It was a different animal entirely. The NFLPA was arguing that he was basically a WR and should have been designated as one with the franchise tag. It was all about tag designation, not negotiated salary based. This truly was new ground.
We can argue all that 'til we're purple. If you think Jimmy was merely a pawn and not actively involved then we just have to agree to disagree.

:bng:

Garry42 03-06-2018 02:22 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
I have always liked the idea of Jimmy returning....as long as the price is right. He would give us a dimension that has been missing since he left and add to a potent offence. He and Brees would be back in synch immediately. Now that we have a running game, the addition of a strong experienced TE seems like the final missing piece.

saintsfan1976 03-06-2018 02:34 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 793694)
I pointed that very tweet out earlier in my response. And I agree with Graham that Hicks should have felt blessed getting away from that mess created by Rob Ryan. Yet, if that's the worst that Graham did (and it is) then it is pretty trivial.
You’re assuming it was a dig on Rob Ryan (not even his coach). I assume it was a dig on the team that dealt him without warning. And dealt him to a team who’s players talked major pregame trash on the field to him and subsequently shut him down.

Yeah. That tweet was a jab at Payton. Hence the delete.

AsylumGuido 03-06-2018 02:37 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 793699)
We can argue all that 'til we're purple. If you think Jimmy was merely a pawn and not actively involved then we just have to agree to disagree.

:bng:
Oh, I have no doubt Graham was simply a pawn in the franchise designation ploy by the NFLPA. While Graham never provided any input during the proceedings, his good friend Brees implied that Graham was not an enthused participant ...

Quote:
Back in March (early on in the legal battle), Saints quarterback Drew Brees offered Graham advice that remains relevant in light of the latest development: "I just told him be patient," Brees said. "Don't get frustrated. Don't take it personally. It's part of the deal and it's hard and ... you just want it to be over. You want certainty. That's the hardest part."
All the facts point to the NFLPA and their bank of lawyers driving the grievance action. Graham had, in fact, never changed his Twitter description stating that he was an "NFL Tight End".

AsylumGuido 03-06-2018 02:42 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 (Post 793708)
You’re assuming it was a dig on Rob Ryan (not even his coach). I assume it was a dig on the team that dealt him without warning. And dealt him to a team who’s players talked major pregame trash on the field to him and subsequently shut him down.

Yeah. That tweet was a jab at Payton. Hence the delete.
No, the delete was probably the conscience of a young man who most likely felt his message would be misconstrued by persons always looking for the worst in people.

And what does Ryan not being Graham's coach have to do with anything? Hicks was a square peg in a round hole in Ryan's crappy defensive scheme. Graham could see that as easily as anyone.

saintfan 03-06-2018 03:13 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 793709)
Oh, I have no doubt Graham was simply a pawn in the franchise designation ploy by the NFLPA. While Graham never provided any input during the proceedings, his good friend Brees implied that Graham was not an enthused participant ...







All the facts point to the NFLPA and their bank of lawyers driving the grievance action. Graham had, in fact, never changed his Twitter description stating that he was an "NFL Tight End".


All he had to do was sign. Nobody stopped him. Not his agent. Not the NFLPA. Like I said earlier, otherwise somebody goes to jail. Believe it or don’t, but Jimmy knew exactly what he was doing. To believe your angle would be to believe he was some sort of victim, and, as I said, we can agree to disagree.

AsylumGuido 03-06-2018 03:28 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 793716)
All he had to do was sign. Nobody stopped him. Not his agent. Not the NFLPA. Like I said earlier, otherwise somebody goes to jail. Believe it or don’t, but Jimmy knew exactly what he was doing. To believe your angle would be to believe he was some sort of victim, and, as I said, we can agree to disagree.
No. All he had to do wasn't just sign. Graham didn't want to play under the franchise tag. He wanted a contract. He was coerced into letting the NFLPA file a grievance on the franchise tag designation. This was something the PA had wanted to address and this was their first chance. By doing what they requested of him it did not hurt anyone. That is other than a number of soft-skinned fans that couldn't understand that this was a point of contention between the league and the PA that both sides wanted to resolve. All it did was postpone the deal that Graham was going to be getting anyway.

No, Graham wasn't a victim. There were no victims. It was simply a legal issue that hurt nobody. And where the heck are you getting this jail tripe? Yes, Jimmy knew what he was doing and why he was doing it. It is clear that you don't understand.

You are making it all too personal. Nobody did anything wrong. It is all just business. Lighten up.

saintsfan1976 03-06-2018 04:12 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 793710)
No, the delete was probably the conscience of a young man who most likely felt his message would be misconstrued by persons always looking for the worst in people.

And what does Ryan not being Graham's coach have to do with anything? Hicks was a square peg in a round hole in Ryan's crappy defensive scheme. Graham could see that as easily as anyone.
Again. You’re assuming. But your guess is as good as mine.

voodooido 03-06-2018 05:09 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Didn’t realize how bad we have been at TE since he left. We rank 31st in TE production since that time

saintfan 03-06-2018 06:00 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 793718)
No. All he had to do wasn't just sign. Graham didn't want to play under the franchise tag. He wanted a contract. He was coerced into letting the NFLPA file a grievance on the franchise tag designation. This was something the PA had wanted to address and this was their first chance. By doing what they requested of him it did not hurt anyone. That is other than a number of soft-skinned fans that couldn't understand that this was a point of contention between the league and the PA that both sides wanted to resolve. All it did was postpone the deal that Graham was going to be getting anyway.

No, Graham wasn't a victim. There were no victims. It was simply a legal issue that hurt nobody. And where the heck are you getting this jail tripe? Yes, Jimmy knew what he was doing and why he was doing it. It is clear that you don't understand.

You are making it all too personal. Nobody did anything wrong. It is all just business. Lighten up.
See the parts in bold? You just lost the debate for yourself.

Again, NOBODY FORCED him to do anything. The choice was his and he knew exactly what he was doing - your words, and you're the self-proclaimed expert eh? Otherwise, what you call 'tripe' would be against the law, and thank you again for proving my point. The agent and the NFLPA forced Jimmy not to sign? Sir you need to get real.

What is clear is that the only person taking this personal is you sir. YOU are the one who, by your own admission read everything ever published on the internet on the subject. For me, this is just my football team, not my life.

We could have just agreed to disagree, but you won't let it go.

As for lightening up, I think a look in your mirror is in order sir.

WillSaints81 03-06-2018 06:01 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Is it really likely he comes back?

WillSaints81 03-06-2018 06:13 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
How much power will we have to sign if Green Bay, New England, Dallas, and Oakland vie for him? Would he still want to stick it to us by going to Atlanta?

AsylumGuido 03-06-2018 06:18 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 793736)
See the parts in bold? You just lost the debate for yourself.

Again, NOBODY FORCED him to do anything. The choice was his and he knew exactly what he was doing - your words, and you're the self-proclaimed expert eh? Otherwise, what you call 'tripe' would be against the law, and thank you again for proving my point. The agent and the NFLPA forced Jimmy not to sign? Sir you need to get real.

What is clear is that the only person taking this personal is you sir. YOU are the one who, by your own admission read everything ever published on the internet on the subject. For me, this is just my football team, not my life.

We could have just agreed to disagree, but you won't let it go.

As for lightening up, I think a look in your mirror is in order sir.
I see you don't "get it". Yes, Graham had a choice but he made the choice that would help other union members. He made the choice for the good of the whole.

Once again, why is that so bad? Why are you so bent out of shape over it? Explain your distress. I don't understand why you are so bent out of shape over it.

Yes, he knew what he was doing and what he was doing had nothing to do with any of your personal business.

And once again, bullcrap on your overreaction that anything related could ever be "against the law".

Get a grip, dude.

vpheughan 03-06-2018 06:21 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
"Dealt without warning?"
Oh yeah the Mickster and the Paytoner should have called and asked if it was alright with him that he get traded.
Happens all the time in the NFL, just ask Belichick!
I'll bet they didn't even help him pack or give him a ride to airport!

saintfan 03-06-2018 06:30 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 793741)
Yes, Graham had a choice but he made the choice...

Yes, he knew what he was doing...

.

Rather than acknowledge the rest of that...tripe...let's just stick to the part where you prove my point. Again.

My position is that Jimmy knew what he was doing and could have stopped it had he wanted to. Twice in your last two posts you agree. So what on earth are you still arguing for? Your position is that he was used as an unwitting pawn by the NFLPA. Your position is wrong. Jimmy controls Jimmy. Nobody else.

You keep proving me right. It's time to agree to disagree dude. The quickest way out of a hole is to stop digging bro.

saintsfan1976 03-06-2018 06:46 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vpheughan (Post 793742)
"Dealt without warning?"
Oh yeah the Mickster and the Paytoner should have called and asked if it was alright with him that he get traded.
Happens all the time in the NFL, just ask Belichick!
I'll bet they didn't even help him pack or give him a ride to airport!
You misunderstood me. My point is JG had just signed a 4 year record breaking deal with his only team and was dealt the next season - to his shock, apparently to his QBs shock as well. As in no sign that he would have been dealt.

AsylumGuido 03-06-2018 07:00 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 793748)
Rather than acknowledge the rest of that...tripe...let's just stick to the part where you prove my point. Again.

My position is that Jimmy knew what he was doing and could have stopped it had he wanted to. Twice in your last two posts you agree. So what on earth are you still arguing for? Your position is that he was used as an unwitting pawn by the NFLPA. Your position is wrong. Jimmy controls Jimmy. Nobody else.

You keep proving me right. It's time to agree to disagree dude. The quickest way out of a hole is to stop digging bro.
The point is WHY should he have stopped it? What damage did it do? He got the exact same contract he would have received regardless.

What was there to stop? What was so terrible about a lawsuit to solve a legal loophole?

Why does it rile you so much. To be honest I enjoyed the legal play since I knew it meant nothing to me personally.

What is your issue?

:confused:

AsylumGuido 03-06-2018 07:03 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 (Post 793754)
You misunderstood me. My point is JG had just signed a 4 year record breaking deal with his only team and was dealt the next season - to his shock, apparently to his QBs shock as well. As in no sign that he would have been dealt.
And even Saints management expected to deal him. If you read back you would know that his part in the Unger and a trade for a 1st round pick was demanded by the Seahawks and not planned by the Saints.

saintfan 03-06-2018 07:07 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 793757)
The point is WHY should he have stopped it? What damage did it do? He got the exact same contract he would have received regardless.

What was there to stop? What was so terrible about a lawsuit to solve a legal loophole?

Why does it rile you so much. To be honest I enjoyed the legal play since I knew it meant nothing to me personally.

What is your issue?

:confused:
No, none of that was the point. The point was I said he knew exactly what he was doing. You said he was just a pawn of the NFLPE and he had no choice. You keep moving the sticks to adjust to your position. Debates do not work that way Sir.

Right now? My "issue"? Well, the fact that you won't just let it go and agree to disagree, which I've been trying to do for a while now.

My point is that Jimmy knew what he was doing. You initially argued that he was merely a pawn. I have shown your take to be bogus, so much so that you have agreed with me in multiple posts.

You lost. Move on. It's ok. It's just a football forum.

:bng:

AsylumGuido 03-06-2018 07:18 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 793760)
No, none of that was the point. The point was I said he knew exactly what he was doing. You said he was just a pawn of the NFLPE and he had no choice. You keep moving the sticks to adjust to your position. Debates do not work that way Sir.

Right now? My "issue"? Well, the fact that you won't just let it go and agree to disagree, which I've been trying to do for a while now.

My point is that Jimmy knew what he was doing. You initially argued that he was merely a pawn. I have shown your take to be bogus, so much so that you have agreed with me in multiple posts.

You lost. Move on. It's ok. It's just a football forum.

:bng:
No. You don't get it. Your point is that he knew what he was doing so he was at fault for doing it. My point is that he knew what he was doing and was convinced by the NFLPA that is was for the best of the union to pursue the issue. He really had no choice balancing getting his contract done early against the good of the whole union membership. In that case he was a pawn. He had no choice but to say yes without letting down the whole NFLPA membership.

I haven't moved my sticks an inch. And my take is anything but bogus. It is based far more in fact than anything you have attempted to present.

Yes, it is just a football forum, but when you choose to present faulty arguments demeaning persons who are not at fault I will come to their defense with a passion.

You, Sir, are wrong. Sorry.

saintfan 03-06-2018 07:25 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
For the love of Pete man let it go.

My point was that he was not merely a pawn. Your point is that he was.

You lose. You were always going to lose, because your argument only holds water if someone else was in charge of Jimmy's contract. Of course that is ludicrous. We all new that before your last 10 posts or however many you've posted trying to re-frame the debate. Debates don't work that way bro. You're staring to look foolish(er).

Good God man. Just stop. Do you not think anyone who's interested cant simply scroll up to see who's 'demeaning'?

Stop digging dude. Let it go. Deep breaths. You might win a debate against me someday. Today is not the day.

AsylumGuido 03-06-2018 07:33 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 793762)
For the love of Pete man let it go.

My point was that he was not merely a pawn. Your point is that he was.

You lose. You were always going to lose, because your argument only holds water if someone else was in charge of Jimmy's contract. Of course that is ludicrous. We all new that before your last 10 posts or however many you've posted trying to re-frame the debate. Debates don't work that way bro. You're staring to look foolish(er).

Good God man. Just stop. Do you not think anyone who's interested cant simply scroll up to see who's 'demeaning'?

Stop digging dude. Let it go. Deep breaths. You might win a debate against me someday. Today is not the day.
No! Your point was that he was at fault for something. He was faced with a choice of postponing his contract to help the union or do what the fanbase wanted. Yes. He decided to do what was clearly an overwhelming decision. He was a pawn. He really had no choice without ostracizing himself. He was clearly pressured into the decision as was supported by Brees' quote.

Sorry, but you lose this debate. From the very beginning.

My whole point has always been that he had no choice because the choice was so overwhelming based upon the importance relayed by the NFLPA. Yes. He had a choice, but was still a pawn because his choice was limited to one choice.

saintfan 03-06-2018 07:43 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 793763)
No! Your point was that he was at fault for something. He was faced with a choice of postponing his contract to help the union or do what the fanbase wanted. Yes. He decided to do what was clearly an overwhelming decision. He was a pawn. He really had no choice without ostracizing himself. He was clearly pressured into the decision as was supported by Brees' quote.

Sorry, but you lose this debate. From the very beginning.
My point? Gimmie some of those magic, mind readin' beans bro...

You know what? You win. Everything you said was right. Everything I said was wrong. Feel better? God I hope so...

AsylumGuido 03-06-2018 07:45 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 793764)
My point? Gimmie some of those magic, mind readin' beans bro...

You know what? You win. Everything you said was right. Everything I said was wrong. Feel better? God I hope so...

THE WINNER by BOBBY BARE - YouTube
Of course I win because you were wrong. Good day.

saintfan 03-06-2018 07:50 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 793765)
Of course I win because you were wrong. Good day.
Of course

:nuts:

AsylumGuido 03-06-2018 07:51 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 793766)
Of course

:crazy:
At least you admit your delusion. Commendable.

Beastmode 03-06-2018 08:01 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
He won't be signing here. He rubbed the leadership against the grain.
Maybe the Browns but not here. Too many TE FA's with way more upside, especially in the blocking dept.

ChrisXVI 03-06-2018 08:26 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Mike Gesicki from Penn State is the exact same player for way cheaper and 10 years younger.

Beastmode 03-06-2018 08:51 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Jimmy is an old man for a TE. Dude is very beat up and didn't show up for about 6 games last season. He was a ghost. No way this happens. Time to either draft or make a good read in the FA market with a younger prospect.

skymike 03-06-2018 10:08 PM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Super interesting. if the money is right, he's an upgrade from Fleener.

QBREES9 03-07-2018 12:06 AM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Kick the tires, see what he has left in the tank. If need be, bring him back.

lee909 03-07-2018 02:34 AM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodooido (Post 793728)
Didn’t realize how bad we have been at TE since he left. We rank 31st in TE production since that time
Outside of Ben Watson nobody has claimed that starting TE jersey

halloween 65 03-07-2018 06:13 AM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 793771)
Mike Gesicki from Penn State is the exact same player for way cheaper and 10 years younger.
Gesicki would be one of my picks so far. Sure missing the 2nd round pick now. Gonna be hard to get this guy without a trade or packaging picks but could set the offense if we did.

saintfan 03-07-2018 08:07 AM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Lets just make sure we get someone who is the master of his own domain and doesn't try to blame the NFLPA for his contract status. We don't need that kind of drama...

:banana:

https://cmgajcradiotvtalk.files.word...our-domain.jpg

st thomas 03-07-2018 08:38 AM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
I believe JG would give saints home town savings to be with the hofer Brees on the the last whoo raa. For the 2 hey why not have him back the seas would part in red zone

st thomas 03-07-2018 08:50 AM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 793709)
Oh, I have no doubt Graham was simply a pawn in the franchise designation ploy by the NFLPA. While Graham never provided any input during the proceedings, his good friend Brees implied that Graham was not an enthused participant ...







All the facts point to the NFLPA and their bank of lawyers driving the grievance action. Graham had, in fact, never changed his Twitter description stating that he was an "NFL Tight End".


If I had to fly my single engine fixed wing 3500 miles up mountains to a rainy day city I’d be pissed a little while too

K Major 03-07-2018 09:05 AM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beastmode (Post 793769)
Maybe the Browns but not here. Too many TE FA's with way more upside, especially in the blocking dept.
Who are those tight ends?

Beastmode 03-07-2018 09:16 AM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 793826)
Who are those tight ends?

The list is long but it won't be available officially until after the draft. We may not even need the list if we draft one.

K Major 03-07-2018 09:44 AM
Re: Saints interested in reunion with Jimmy Graham
 
Beast,

I was looking at TE stats from every NFL team in 2017.

Fleener, Hill, Griffin & Housyowatchalic combined for 26 1st downs & 4 tds :rolleyes:.

Jimmy Dickens - 34 1st downs & 10 TD's in a run 1st offense up in Seattle. Even at 32 years old, that's big time production. Imagine him back w/NO & Brees. He doesn't have to be "the man", just a red zone night mare & 3rd down target.

Remember in that Vikings playoff game, we could have sealed their fate if we would have only converted a 1st late in the game. I think Jimmy can help this team get over the hump offensively ... specifically in the red zone and on 3rd downs. Nick Underhill & a few other credible sources think the interest to return is mutual. If it makes sense (financially), he needs to come back & help us win another title. It's been too long :bng:.


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