If you knew?

turbo_dog · 04-24-2005, 12:25 PM

Some have made the argument that this was a thin draft for linebackers, and that's why we have passed on the ones that were there. I don't buy this, but let's say that is the reason.

If you knew it was a particularly bad year to draft linebackers, and you needed an upgrade at that position, wouldn't you do more in free agency to acquire a better linebacker?

GumboBC · 04-24-2005, 12:29 PM

Some have made the argument that this was a thin draft for linebackers, and that\'s why we have passed on the ones that were there. I don\'t buy this, but let\'s say that is the reason.

If you knew it was a particularly bad year to draft linebackers, and you needed an upgrade at that position, wouldn\'t you do more in free agency to acquire a better linebacker?

Yes, I would have tried to sign a LB in free-agency.

But, I like the Fincher kid. Were there any LB\'s in the 2nd who were better than Fincher?

saintswhodi · 04-24-2005, 12:47 PM

Were there any LB\'s in the 2nd who were better than Fincher?

Burnett.

GumboBC · 04-24-2005, 12:49 PM

Were there any LB\'s in the 2nd who were better than Fincher?

Burnett.

Maybe. Maybe not. All I know is I\'m extremely pleased we got Fincher.

turbo_dog · 04-24-2005, 12:53 PM

I\'m not knocking Fincher. His analysis and highlight package show him looking like a solid prospect. We will have to wait and see. But it seems to me that Haslett and company need to make the linebacker position a higher priority.

Jim Haslett has said publicly that he doesn\'t think the linebacker position is as important as others. This was right before last year\'s draft and was thought to be a smokescreen. I now think he really believes this. Haslett doesn\'t have a smokescreen, just a clear plastic shower curtain. I don\'t see how, when it\'s obvious to fans, analysts, and reporters that the team needs improvement in this area, that they can not address it with more urgency.

Until we got Mckenzie last year it took about three years to address the cb need that everyone knew we needed to address. I\'m beginning to wonder where Ricky got his weed. Seems like Haslett is the one in a cloud.

LKelley67 · 04-24-2005, 01:06 PM

they had the opportunity to get the #1 LB and passed. the only other conventional LB taken before #40 was ruud. philly offered #31 straight for howard and they turned them down. so they could have had ruud. at #40 every other Lb was available. they passed on them all- thurman, burnett, blackstock, mccoy.

fincher actually looks okay. but you read about him and see things like limited upside, lacks physical tools, role player, etc. isn\'t that what we already have? at the very least, half a dozen LB\'s that were consensus picks higher than him were available at 13, 40, & 82. no prob, let them either outsmart the rest of the league or get a new regime next year.

GumboBC · 04-24-2005, 01:10 PM

they had the opportunity to get the #1 LB and passed. the only other conventional LB taken before #40 was ruud. philly offered #31 straight for howard and they turned them down. so they could have had ruud. at #40 every other Lb was available. they passed on them all- thurman, burnett, blackstock, mccoy.

fincher actually looks okay. but you read about him and see things like limited upside, lacks physical tools, role player, etc. isn\'t that what we already have? at the very least, half a dozen LB\'s that were consensus picks higher than him were available at 13, 40, & 82. no prob, let them either outsmart the rest of the league or get a new regime next year.

Show me something that says Fincher has limited upside? Show me something that says Fincher is a \"role\" player.

All I\'ve read is where Fincher had the most upside of any LB in the draft.

LKelley67 · 04-24-2005, 01:15 PM

Strengths: Has a lot of experience...Has good size...Is very tough...A team leader and great competitor...Physical and a thumper in the middle...Gets the most out of his ability...Versatile and could play inside or outside.
Weaknesses: Doesn\'t have ideal physical tools...Doesn\'t look natural or fluid in coverage...Didn\'t emerge as a pro prospect until his senior year... May have a limited upside at the pro level.
Notes: Is best friends with QB Dan Orlovsky...Had a big senior season and really saw his stock rise... Won\'t impress you with his physical tools but is a good football player who just gets the job done...May be one of the more underrated players in the Draft.
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/pla...edfincher.html

-------the highest i can find him rated is #5 among just ILBs

[Edited on 24/4/2005 by LKelley67]

saintswhodi · 04-24-2005, 01:17 PM

Yes, cause the 32nd ranked D needs to keep taking players with \"upside.\" That\'ll help. :casstet:

Strengths: Is a big, strong, physical and tough MLB prospect. Is at his best plugging the run downhill between the tackles. Fills hard and plays the game with a mean streak. Has a good combination of upper and lower body strength. Plays with leverage and shows the ability to consistently hold up at the POA in a phone booth. Is a powerful striker as a tackler. Has adequate straight-line speed and shows some closing burst when pursuing. Has good natural instincts versus the run and does a good job of reading his keys and reacting.

Weaknesses: Lacks ideal athleticism. Has adequate straight-line speed but marginal lateral mobility. Does not possess good range versus the run. Has trouble recovering after taking a false step. Has stiff hips and struggles to change directions. Loses too much in transition when he stops and starts. Lacks the athleticism, fluidity and speed to cover most NFL RB\'s one-on-one. Also has marginal range for zone coverage in the NFL.

Overall: Fincher played in 11 games as a reserve linebacker during his true freshman season in 2001. He took over as a fulltime starter at MLB as a sophomore in 2002 and finished third on the team with 92 total tackles. He was a fulltime starter from 2002-\'04. As a junior in 2003, Fincher finished second in tackles with 115. As a senior in 2004, he led his team with 140 total tackles, 12 tackles for loss, two sacks and two INT\'s. Fincher is an experienced ILB prospect with good size, toughness and strength. He gets the most out of his physical tools but clearly is an overachiever with marginal athleticism. Fincher\'s upside is limited but he is worth drafting in the mid-to-late rounds as a potential reserve ILB that can hold his own between the tackles as a run-plugger if necessary and also has the size, straight-line speed, toughness and tackling skills to chase down kicks on special teams.

I especially like this part:

Fincher\'s upside is limited but he is worth drafting in the mid-to-late rounds as a potential reserve ILB that can hold his own between the tackles as a run-plugger if necessary and also has the size

This is from ESPN Insider.

[Edited on 24/4/2005 by saintswhodi]

GumboBC · 04-24-2005, 01:18 PM

LKelley67 --

Fair enough. I\'m not saying Fincher is the next Ray Lewis or anything. But I can find the \"negative\" on every player in the draft. I read more \"negatives\" on DJ than what you just posted on Fincher. That\'s not to say Fincher is better than DJ.

But I feel much more comfortable with Jamal Brown in the 1st and Fincher in the 3rd than what I would have if we had selected DJ in the 1st.

As far as the LBs we passed up in the 2nd. Fincher seems to be just as likely to be the man in the middle as any of those guys.

That\'s my opinion anyway.

[Edited on 24/4/2005 by GumboBC]

04-24-2005, 12:29 PM	#2
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	If you knew? Some have made the argument that this was a thin draft for linebackers, and that\'s why we have passed on the ones that were there. I don\'t buy this, but let\'s say that is the reason. If you knew it was a particularly bad year to draft linebackers, and you needed an upgrade at that position, wouldn\'t you do more in free agency to acquire a better linebacker? Yes, I would have tried to sign a LB in free-agency. But, I like the Fincher kid. Were there any LB\'s in the 2nd who were better than Fincher?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-24-2005, 12:49 PM	#4
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	If you knew? Were there any LB\'s in the 2nd who were better than Fincher? Burnett. Maybe. Maybe not. All I know is I\'m extremely pleased we got Fincher.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-24-2005, 01:06 PM	#6
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	If you knew? they had the opportunity to get the #1 LB and passed. the only other conventional LB taken before #40 was ruud. philly offered #31 straight for howard and they turned them down. so they could have had ruud. at #40 every other Lb was available. they passed on them all- thurman, burnett, blackstock, mccoy. fincher actually looks okay. but you read about him and see things like limited upside, lacks physical tools, role player, etc. isn\'t that what we already have? at the very least, half a dozen LB\'s that were consensus picks higher than him were available at 13, 40, & 82. no prob, let them either outsmart the rest of the league or get a new regime next year.

04-24-2005, 01:10 PM	#7
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	If you knew? they had the opportunity to get the #1 LB and passed. the only other conventional LB taken before #40 was ruud. philly offered #31 straight for howard and they turned them down. so they could have had ruud. at #40 every other Lb was available. they passed on them all- thurman, burnett, blackstock, mccoy. fincher actually looks okay. but you read about him and see things like limited upside, lacks physical tools, role player, etc. isn\'t that what we already have? at the very least, half a dozen LB\'s that were consensus picks higher than him were available at 13, 40, & 82. no prob, let them either outsmart the rest of the league or get a new regime next year. Show me something that says Fincher has limited upside? Show me something that says Fincher is a \"role\" player. All I\'ve read is where Fincher had the most upside of any LB in the draft.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-24-2005, 01:15 PM	#8
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	If you knew? Strengths: Has a lot of experience...Has good size...Is very tough...A team leader and great competitor...Physical and a thumper in the middle...Gets the most out of his ability...Versatile and could play inside or outside. Weaknesses: Doesn\'t have ideal physical tools...Doesn\'t look natural or fluid in coverage...Didn\'t emerge as a pro prospect until his senior year... May have a limited upside at the pro level. Notes: Is best friends with QB Dan Orlovsky...Had a big senior season and really saw his stock rise... Won\'t impress you with his physical tools but is a good football player who just gets the job done...May be one of the more underrated players in the Draft. http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/pla...edfincher.html -------the highest i can find him rated is #5 among just ILBs [Edited on 24/4/2005 by LKelley67]

04-24-2005, 12:25 PM	#1
turbo_dog 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,592	If you knew? Some have made the argument that this was a thin draft for linebackers, and that's why we have passed on the ones that were there. I don't buy this, but let's say that is the reason. If you knew it was a particularly bad year to draft linebackers, and you needed an upgrade at that position, wouldn't you do more in free agency to acquire a better linebacker?

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04-24-2005, 12:47 PM	#3
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	If you knew? Were there any LB\'s in the 2nd who were better than Fincher? Burnett.

04-24-2005, 12:53 PM	#5
turbo_dog 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,592	If you knew? I\'m not knocking Fincher. His analysis and highlight package show him looking like a solid prospect. We will have to wait and see. But it seems to me that Haslett and company need to make the linebacker position a higher priority. Jim Haslett has said publicly that he doesn\'t think the linebacker position is as important as others. This was right before last year\'s draft and was thought to be a smokescreen. I now think he really believes this. Haslett doesn\'t have a smokescreen, just a clear plastic shower curtain. I don\'t see how, when it\'s obvious to fans, analysts, and reporters that the team needs improvement in this area, that they can not address it with more urgency. Until we got Mckenzie last year it took about three years to address the cb need that everyone knew we needed to address. I\'m beginning to wonder where Ricky got his weed. Seems like Haslett is the one in a cloud.

04-24-2005, 01:17 PM	#9
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	If you knew? Yes, cause the 32nd ranked D needs to keep taking players with \"upside.\" That\'ll help. :casstet: Strengths: Is a big, strong, physical and tough MLB prospect. Is at his best plugging the run downhill between the tackles. Fills hard and plays the game with a mean streak. Has a good combination of upper and lower body strength. Plays with leverage and shows the ability to consistently hold up at the POA in a phone booth. Is a powerful striker as a tackler. Has adequate straight-line speed and shows some closing burst when pursuing. Has good natural instincts versus the run and does a good job of reading his keys and reacting. Weaknesses: Lacks ideal athleticism. Has adequate straight-line speed but marginal lateral mobility. Does not possess good range versus the run. Has trouble recovering after taking a false step. Has stiff hips and struggles to change directions. Loses too much in transition when he stops and starts. Lacks the athleticism, fluidity and speed to cover most NFL RB\'s one-on-one. Also has marginal range for zone coverage in the NFL. Overall: Fincher played in 11 games as a reserve linebacker during his true freshman season in 2001. He took over as a fulltime starter at MLB as a sophomore in 2002 and finished third on the team with 92 total tackles. He was a fulltime starter from 2002-\'04. As a junior in 2003, Fincher finished second in tackles with 115. As a senior in 2004, he led his team with 140 total tackles, 12 tackles for loss, two sacks and two INT\'s. Fincher is an experienced ILB prospect with good size, toughness and strength. He gets the most out of his physical tools but clearly is an overachiever with marginal athleticism. Fincher\'s upside is limited but he is worth drafting in the mid-to-late rounds as a potential reserve ILB that can hold his own between the tackles as a run-plugger if necessary and also has the size, straight-line speed, toughness and tackling skills to chase down kicks on special teams. I especially like this part: Fincher\'s upside is limited but he is worth drafting in the mid-to-late rounds as a potential reserve ILB that can hold his own between the tackles as a run-plugger if necessary and also has the size This is from ESPN Insider. [Edited on 24/4/2005 by saintswhodi]

04-24-2005, 01:18 PM	#10
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	If you knew? LKelley67 -- Fair enough. I\'m not saying Fincher is the next Ray Lewis or anything. But I can find the \"negative\" on every player in the draft. I read more \"negatives\" on DJ than what you just posted on Fincher. That\'s not to say Fincher is better than DJ. But I feel much more comfortable with Jamal Brown in the 1st and Fincher in the 3rd than what I would have if we had selected DJ in the 1st. As far as the LBs we passed up in the 2nd. Fincher seems to be just as likely to be the man in the middle as any of those guys. That\'s my opinion anyway. [Edited on 24/4/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616