Wonderlic - How do you compare to Lamar Jackson or...

K Major · 04-02-2018, 10:23 AM

Ahh ... the laws of probability.

There are quite a few independent studies out there that indicate scores from 1-25 do parallel to high probabilities on becoming a solid NFL QB once you reach the 25 mark. The Jim Kelly, Warren Sapps & Marino's of the world (lower wonderlic scores) are rare breeds. The NFL have these wonderlic test set up for a reason.

I will say a score of 13 is concerning for me. Especially considering that these prospective players have had months to prepare.

hitta · 04-02-2018, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Ahh ... the laws of probability.

There are quite a few independent studies out there that indicate scores from 1-25 do parallel to high probabilities on becoming a solid NFL QB once you reach the 25 mark. The Jim Kelly, Warren Sapps & Marino's of the world (lower wonderlic scores) are rare breeds. The NFL have these wonderlic test set up for a reason.

I will say a score of 13 is concerning for me. Especially considering that these prospective players have had months to prepare.

They are set up for a reason, I agree. The difference between online versions of the test and the actual test though is that the difficulty at the beginning of the wonderlic is incredibly easy, and the problems become more and more complex as you progress through the test. The versions you find online have the problems more randomly assigned. This is actually an attempt by the test designers to remove the potential of becoming stuck on a problem. It still happens though, which is why unless the draftee has practiced the test and gained a good feel for when they should skip problems, a draftee, imo, should skip the test.

The Wonderlic is a tool to predict processing speed. It has a fairly strong reliability on the Cronbach scale. These test aren't infallible though. Also just because these scores are repeatable does not mean that they are actual predictors of processing speed or processing intelligence. There are still quite a few reasons other than what is being tested for scores to dip or inflate. Also, at a certain point a high wonderlic score is actually linked to poorer performance in the NFL.

K Major · 04-02-2018, 11:41 AM

But I will say this on Lamar Jackson the player ...

The things I'd really be interested in as a GM are :

(1) Can he command a huddle.
(2) Does he have the ability to learn concepts.
(3) How does he do on the chalk board breaking down plays?
(4) His demeanor & approach to the huddle.
(5) When breaking down plays, can you tell me "who is the primary? Who is the secondary?" Check downs at the line of scrimmage.
(6) Can he speak the game?

At this level, you can't win simply on athletic ability alone. It's what is between the ears.

If he can do those things effectively and consistently ... and he's your best option (BPA) @ 27 ... take him and feel good about the pick.

At some point, the Saints will need a QB. #9 has spoiled us but he's approaching 40.

CheramieIII · 04-02-2018, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by hitta

The wonderlic test isn't really a good indicator of intelligence. It is more an indicator of processing speed. The questions are all easy, and given enough time I think a person of reasonable intelligence would get them all right. A person could definitely have a high iq and a low wonderlic score though. The reason they use the wonderlic is they want to know how quick a person can process information. They don't give a **** about whether a person can solve a highly complex problem.

It's also easy to **** up the wonderlic test. You spend a little too much time on a single problem and it screws up the entire test for you. This is one of the reasons I think potential draftees should avoid the wonderlic test unless they practice it.

I agree. You shouldn't get punished for the questions you don't complete.

SmashMouth · 04-02-2018, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

But I will say this on Lamar Jackson the player ...

The things I'd really be interested in as a GM are :

(1) Can he command a huddle.
(2) Does he have the ability to learn concepts.
(3) How does he do on the chalk board breaking down plays?
(4) His demeanor & approach to the huddle.
(5) When breaking down plays, can you tell me "who is the primary? Who is the secondary?" Check downs at the line of scrimmage.
(6) Can he speak the game?

At this level, you can't win simply on athletic ability alone. It's what is between the ears.

If he can do those things effectively and consistently ... and he's your best option (BPA) @ 27 ... take him and feel good about the pick.

At some point, the Saints will need a QB. #9 has spoiled us but he's approaching 40.

Just maybe Taysom Hill is that guy...

dizzle88 · 04-02-2018, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Just maybe Taysom Hill is that guy...

Personally for me, it's difficult to get excited about Taysom Hill. His College tape is just littered with overthrown slant passes which is slightly ignored because the guy has wheels.

SmashMouth · 04-02-2018, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

Personally for me, it's difficult to get excited about Taysom Hill. His College tape is just littered with overthrown slant passes which is slightly ignored because the guy has wheels.

He broke Steve Young's records... that has to count for something.

YouTube (Short URL)

spkb25 · 04-02-2018, 07:01 PM

22, 88%

vpheughan · 04-03-2018, 11:50 AM

Exploratory factor analysis is one method of checking dimensionality. Technically speaking, Cronbach's alpha is not a statistical test – it is a coefficient of reliability (or consistency). Cronbach's alpha can be written as a function of the number of test items and the average inter-correlation among the items.

PRECISELY!!!

CheramieIII · 04-03-2018, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Just maybe Taysom Hill is that guy...

YES!

04-02-2018, 10:23 AM	#11
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Wonderlic - How do you compare to Lamar Jackson or... Ahh ... the laws of probability. There are quite a few independent studies out there that indicate scores from 1-25 do parallel to high probabilities on becoming a solid NFL QB once you reach the 25 mark. The Jim Kelly, Warren Sapps & Marino's of the world (lower wonderlic scores) are rare breeds. The NFL have these wonderlic test set up for a reason. I will say a score of 13 is concerning for me. Especially considering that these prospective players have had months to prepare. SmashMouth and jeanpierre like this.

04-02-2018, 11:28 AM	#12
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,320	Re: Wonderlic - How do you compare to Lamar Jackson or... Originally Posted by K Major Ahh ... the laws of probability. There are quite a few independent studies out there that indicate scores from 1-25 do parallel to high probabilities on becoming a solid NFL QB once you reach the 25 mark. The Jim Kelly, Warren Sapps & Marino's of the world (lower wonderlic scores) are rare breeds. The NFL have these wonderlic test set up for a reason. I will say a score of 13 is concerning for me. Especially considering that these prospective players have had months to prepare. They are set up for a reason, I agree. The difference between online versions of the test and the actual test though is that the difficulty at the beginning of the wonderlic is incredibly easy, and the problems become more and more complex as you progress through the test. The versions you find online have the problems more randomly assigned. This is actually an attempt by the test designers to remove the potential of becoming stuck on a problem. It still happens though, which is why unless the draftee has practiced the test and gained a good feel for when they should skip problems, a draftee, imo, should skip the test. The Wonderlic is a tool to predict processing speed. It has a fairly strong reliability on the Cronbach scale. These test aren't infallible though. Also just because these scores are repeatable does not mean that they are actual predictors of processing speed or processing intelligence. There are still quite a few reasons other than what is being tested for scores to dip or inflate. Also, at a certain point a high wonderlic score is actually linked to poorer performance in the NFL.
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,320

04-02-2018, 11:41 AM	#13
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Wonderlic - How do you compare to Lamar Jackson or... But I will say this on Lamar Jackson the player ... The things I'd really be interested in as a GM are : (1) Can he command a huddle. (2) Does he have the ability to learn concepts. (3) How does he do on the chalk board breaking down plays? (4) His demeanor & approach to the huddle. (5) When breaking down plays, can you tell me "who is the primary? Who is the secondary?" Check downs at the line of scrimmage. (6) Can he speak the game? At this level, you can't win simply on athletic ability alone. It's what is between the ears. If he can do those things effectively and consistently ... and he's your best option (BPA) @ 27 ... take him and feel good about the pick. At some point, the Saints will need a QB. #9 has spoiled us but he's approaching 40. jeanpierre and darksoul35 like this.
	"We're a violent team & a tough team. We find ways to put ourselves in position to win. We just have to WIN". Alvin Kamara

04-02-2018, 12:24 PM	#14
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Wonderlic - How do you compare to Lamar Jackson or... Originally Posted by hitta The wonderlic test isn't really a good indicator of intelligence. It is more an indicator of processing speed. The questions are all easy, and given enough time I think a person of reasonable intelligence would get them all right. A person could definitely have a high iq and a low wonderlic score though. The reason they use the wonderlic is they want to know how quick a person can process information. They don't give a ** about whether a person can solve a highly complex problem. It's also easy to ** up the wonderlic test. You spend a little too much time on a single problem and it screws up the entire test for you. This is one of the reasons I think potential draftees should avoid the wonderlic test unless they practice it. I agree. You shouldn't get punished for the questions you don't complete.

04-02-2018, 01:16 PM	#15
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,127 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Wonderlic - How do you compare to Lamar Jackson or... Originally Posted by K Major But I will say this on Lamar Jackson the player ... The things I'd really be interested in as a GM are : (1) Can he command a huddle. (2) Does he have the ability to learn concepts. (3) How does he do on the chalk board breaking down plays? (4) His demeanor & approach to the huddle. (5) When breaking down plays, can you tell me "who is the primary? Who is the secondary?" Check downs at the line of scrimmage. (6) Can he speak the game? At this level, you can't win simply on athletic ability alone. It's what is between the ears. If he can do those things effectively and consistently ... and he's your best option (BPA) @ 27 ... take him and feel good about the pick. At some point, the Saints will need a QB. #9 has spoiled us but he's approaching 40. Just maybe Taysom Hill is that guy... CheramieIII likes this.

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04-02-2018, 02:13 PM	#16
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,208	Re: Wonderlic - How do you compare to Lamar Jackson or... Originally Posted by SmashMouth Just maybe Taysom Hill is that guy... Personally for me, it's difficult to get excited about Taysom Hill. His College tape is just littered with overthrown slant passes which is slightly ignored because the guy has wheels. K Major likes this.

04-02-2018, 07:01 PM	#18
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	Re: Wonderlic - How do you compare to Lamar Jackson or... 22, 88%

04-03-2018, 11:50 AM	#19
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,522	Re: Wonderlic - How do you compare to Lamar Jackson or... Exploratory factor analysis is one method of checking dimensionality. Technically speaking, Cronbach's alpha is not a statistical test – it is a coefficient of reliability (or consistency). Cronbach's alpha can be written as a function of the number of test items and the average inter-correlation among the items. PRECISELY!!!
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,522

04-03-2018, 12:56 PM	#20
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Wonderlic - How do you compare to Lamar Jackson or... Originally Posted by SmashMouth Just maybe Taysom Hill is that guy... YES!

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