The Extremes

TheDeuce · 04-26-2005, 07:40 PM

I love the Saints. I have loved the Saints my entire life. Every season I want to see them make it to the Super Bowl. I still have an agreement with my dad that if the Saints ever go to the Super Bowl, he will spend whatever it takes to get tickets to the game. I have taken constant criticism from all of my friends who support winning franchises like the Cowboys, Steelers, and Patriots; yet I still love the Saints. There is no denying that I want this team to win, and win often.

For Saints' fans, that four-game winning streak was the worst thing that ever could have happened. Not only did the streak put a halt to the front office and coaching staff changes that were being planned, it also seems to have given team officials a sense of complacency that should not exist.

This brings me to my point. In my opinion the best thing for this team is to do one of the extremes this year: win 'em all or lose 'em all. I would prefer the former, but I think I might prefer the latter instead of another 8-8 season or near playoff miss. 32-32 record over the last 4 seasons is nauseating and frustrating :casstet: . It has created a sense of complacency throughout the entire franchise from the FO to the waterboy. It has made our team one of the biggest jokes of the NFL, even Chris Berman called us GOOFY. It's time for things to change drastically, because it's fairly obvious that our current regime believes that we are just a small step away from greatness which I believe is total BS. We need a change, a complete makeover for the team and the FO. Some new faces might do this team some good. Sure this is risky because you never know how a team will handle a complete renovation; they could lose all sixteen games for the next few years because of it. But I might be able to live with 0-16 a little easier than I can live with another 8-8 season.

It is a wretched taste to be gratified with mediocrity when the excellent lies before us

I don't want people to thing that I don't want the Saints to win any games, because that isn't my point at all! I want them to go undefeated and win the Super Bowl every year for the rest of my life. But settling for mediocrity like we have been doing for the last few seasons makes me sick.
So, let's go to one extreme or the other, just as long as its not mediocre.

[Edited on 26/4/2005 by TheDeuce]

GumboBC · 04-26-2005, 07:48 PM

Speaking as a long time Saints fan ... I\'ve had enough of the \"losing\" seasons. And I\'ve seen enough front-office and coaching changes that didn\'t improve ANYTHING.

If we go 3-13 it doesn\'t guarantee us ANYTHING. And even if another coaching staff is brought in ... it dosen\'t mean we are going to win.

If the Saints have an opportunity to win a game, then I hope they win it. I\'ve seen teams start the season off terrible and go deep in the playoffs and beyond. I hope their fans didn\'t give up on them.

I never give up. I never ever give up hope. Losing never helped anyone.

Every NFL season is special. Anything can happen. I let the chips fall where they may as far as the coaching decisions and front office personnel are concerned.

When I sit down to watch a Saints game ... I always hope they will win.

If it\'s the 4th quarter and we\'re 14 points behind ... I hope for a great comeback.

I just can\'t see pulling for my team to lose when ultimately I have no say-so over what coach will be here.

Coaches come and coaches go. But I still pull for my Saints.

[Edited on 26/4/2005 by GumboBC]

TheDeuce · 04-26-2005, 07:52 PM

I always pull for the Saints too. That isn\'t what I was saying. I was saying I\'m tired of mediocrity. If you like it, hey whatever, everybody\'s got their own preferences. But things need to be shaken up. I can\'t stand being mediocre.

GumboBC · 04-26-2005, 07:56 PM

I always pull for the Saints too. That isn\'t what I was saying. I was saying I\'m tired of mediocrity. If you like it, hey whatever, everybody\'s got their own preferences. But things need to be shaken up. I can\'t stand being mediocre.

I got what you were saying. But let me ask you this!

If we go 1-15 ... what will be our record the following year? The year after? The year after that?

Who will be our coach?

Will we finally sign a bunch of big-name free agents in the offseason?

TheDeuce · 04-26-2005, 08:02 PM

Who knows? But if we go 8-8, the FO will continue to think that we have a team that is on the verge of greatness, so they will get complacent and not go after any big free agents like we\'ve done the last few seasons. If we go 1-15, maybe it will make them realize that something needs to change. I think that\'s what the problem is right now: they don\'t think anything has to change. They\'ve grown complacent. But something does need to change because 32-32 shows that we have been doing the same damn thing for four seasons.
I hope the Saints go 16-0 this year, but if we go 8-8 what\'s going to change? NOTHING. But what have we accomplished? NOTHING. 8-8 is unacceptable. We need to strive for something better, and this regime is obviously not concerned with doing that because they have grown complacent and comfortable with mediocrity, with 8-8 seasons, with being a .500 franchise. Well that pisses me off, and I think something needs to change, because if nothing does change then we will always be a .500 club, and what good does that do? NONE.

GumboBC · 04-26-2005, 08:11 PM

Who knows? But if we go 8-8, the FO will continue to think that we have a team that is on the verge of greatness, so they will get complacent and not go after any big free agents like we\'ve done the last few seasons. If we go 1-15, maybe it will make them realize that something needs to change. I think that\'s what the problem is right now: they don\'t think anything has to change. They\'ve grown complacent. But something does need to change because 32-32 shows that we have been doing the same damn thing for four seasons.
I hope the Saints go 16-0 this year, but if we go 8-8 what\'s going to change? NOTHING. But what have we accomplished? NOTHING. 8-8 is unacceptable. We need to strive for something better, and this regime is obviously not concerned with doing that because they have grown complacent and comfortable with mediocrity, with 8-8 seasons, with being a .500 franchise. Well that pisses me off, and I think something needs to change, because if nothing does change then we will always be a .500 club, and what good does that do? NONE.

If you really feel as if Haslett, Loomis and co. are content with mediocrity ... then the best thing, IMHO, is for you to hope we lose our first 13-games. That\'s your best bet for changes to be made. If you think changes need to be made, then you should hope for us to lose a bunch of games this year.

The thing is ... you are hoping for \"changes\" to be made in the HOPE of us getting better. And if changes are made then I will support the next coach. Sometimes changes are good. But, ultimately I don\'t control who the next coach is going to be. We might end up with someone like Jerry Glanville or Carl Smith as our head coach.

Or we could end up with Bill Belichick. Who knows?

But what I do know is that no matter who the coach is ... I hope we win every game. I\'d rather go 8-8 than 3-13. No matter what MIGHT happen. There\'s just not enough guarantees for me to hope we lose ONE game.

I think if you ask any coach they\'ll say losing never helped anything.

[Edited on 27/4/2005 by GumboBC]

TheDeuce · 04-26-2005, 08:25 PM

I don\'t want to sound like a broken record, but what\'s the difference between being 8-8 and not going to the playoffs and being 3-13? Nothing, except you get a better draft pick if you\'re 3-13. Being 8-8 and never winning a playoff game is just as bad as being 0-16. This league is all about the playoffs, and I want the Saints to do whatever it takes to make it there. But if things don\'t change around here, we\'re never going to get there. We\'re going to be 8-8 forever under this regime. Things need to change. Win \'em all, or lose enough to start some change.

[Edited on 27/4/2005 by TheDeuce]

FireVenturi · 04-26-2005, 08:28 PM

I always pull for the Saints too. That isn\'t what I was saying. I was saying I\'m tired of mediocrity. If you like it, hey whatever, everybody\'s got their own preferences. But things need to be shaken up. I can\'t stand being mediocre.

Mediocrity=Chad Brown available and not going after him, while the Patriots do go after him!!!

GumboBC · 04-26-2005, 09:07 PM

I don\'t want to sound like a broken record, but what\'s the difference between being 8-8 and not going to the playoffs and being 3-13? Nothing, except you get a better draft pick if you\'re 3-13. Being 8-8 and never winning a playoff game is just as bad as being 0-16. This league is all about the playoffs, and I want the Saints to do whatever it takes to make it there. But if things don\'t change around here, we\'re never going to get there. We\'re going to be 8-8 forever under this regime. Things need to change. Win \'em all, or lose enough to start some change.

[Edited on 27/4/2005 by TheDeuce]

We\'ve had high draft picks since Haslett has been here. We picked 6th a few years back. We picked 13th this year.

We\'ve had high picks before Haslett was here and never won a playoff game.

The Patriots haven\'t won 3-superbowls because they\'ve had high draft picks. They\'ve gone because they have a solid organization from top to bottom.

Maybe if we lose enough games Haslett will get fired and we\'ll be a super bowl champ with the next coach.

Or maybe we get a coach and we\'ll be one of the worst teams in the league for the next 5 years.

I see what you\'re saying. You think a change is better than just going 8-8 every year. Well ... maybe.

When Haslett was brought in to replace Mike Ditka we won our 1st playoff game. So, in that case .. change was good. At least for that one year.

Here\'s the thing. Mr. Tom Benson controls who is the GM and the coach. Given Benson\'spast history of picking GMs and coaches, I\'m feeling pretty good about Haslett and 8-8.

I just can\'t worry about who Tom Benson is going to replace Loomis and Haslett with. I\'m a fan and I just pull for whoever is here.

We\'ve been close and we are a talented team. Maybe that will finally pay off and maybe it won\'t. What can I do? Nothing!! I just keep being a fan and hope my team wins.

TheDeuce · 04-26-2005, 09:15 PM

I see your point that you can\'t do anything about it, but I still can\'t stand being 8-8. And I hope that it isn\'t even losing that gets some changes done. I hope Haslett gets busted for selling drugs to the FO. Then we can get somebody from the outside who realizes that what the Saints need is a change, to be more aggressive in Free Agency, and understands the weaknesses of our team as they truly are.

04-26-2005, 07:40 PM	#1
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	The Extremes I love the Saints. I have loved the Saints my entire life. Every season I want to see them make it to the Super Bowl. I still have an agreement with my dad that if the Saints ever go to the Super Bowl, he will spend whatever it takes to get tickets to the game. I have taken constant criticism from all of my friends who support winning franchises like the Cowboys, Steelers, and Patriots; yet I still love the Saints. There is no denying that I want this team to win, and win often. For Saints' fans, that four-game winning streak was the worst thing that ever could have happened. Not only did the streak put a halt to the front office and coaching staff changes that were being planned, it also seems to have given team officials a sense of complacency that should not exist. This brings me to my point. In my opinion the best thing for this team is to do one of the extremes this year: win 'em all or lose 'em all. I would prefer the former, but I think I might prefer the latter instead of another 8-8 season or near playoff miss. 32-32 record over the last 4 seasons is nauseating and frustrating :casstet: . It has created a sense of complacency throughout the entire franchise from the FO to the waterboy. It has made our team one of the biggest jokes of the NFL, even Chris Berman called us GOOFY. It's time for things to change drastically, because it's fairly obvious that our current regime believes that we are just a small step away from greatness which I believe is total BS. We need a change, a complete makeover for the team and the FO. Some new faces might do this team some good. Sure this is risky because you never know how a team will handle a complete renovation; they could lose all sixteen games for the next few years because of it. But I might be able to live with 0-16 a little easier than I can live with another 8-8 season. It is a wretched taste to be gratified with mediocrity when the excellent lies before us I don't want people to thing that I don't want the Saints to win any games, because that isn't my point at all! I want them to go undefeated and win the Super Bowl every year for the rest of my life. But settling for mediocrity like we have been doing for the last few seasons makes me sick. So, let's go to one extreme or the other, just as long as its not mediocre. [Edited on 26/4/2005 by TheDeuce]
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

04-26-2005, 07:48 PM	#2
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	The Extremes Speaking as a long time Saints fan ... I\'ve had enough of the \"losing\" seasons. And I\'ve seen enough front-office and coaching changes that didn\'t improve ANYTHING. If we go 3-13 it doesn\'t guarantee us ANYTHING. And even if another coaching staff is brought in ... it dosen\'t mean we are going to win. If the Saints have an opportunity to win a game, then I hope they win it. I\'ve seen teams start the season off terrible and go deep in the playoffs and beyond. I hope their fans didn\'t give up on them. I never give up. I never ever give up hope. Losing never helped anyone. Every NFL season is special. Anything can happen. I let the chips fall where they may as far as the coaching decisions and front office personnel are concerned. When I sit down to watch a Saints game ... I always hope they will win. If it\'s the 4th quarter and we\'re 14 points behind ... I hope for a great comeback. I just can\'t see pulling for my team to lose when ultimately I have no say-so over what coach will be here. Coaches come and coaches go. But I still pull for my Saints. [Edited on 26/4/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-26-2005, 07:52 PM	#3
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	The Extremes I always pull for the Saints too. That isn\'t what I was saying. I was saying I\'m tired of mediocrity. If you like it, hey whatever, everybody\'s got their own preferences. But things need to be shaken up. I can\'t stand being mediocre.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

04-26-2005, 07:56 PM	#4
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	The Extremes I always pull for the Saints too. That isn\'t what I was saying. I was saying I\'m tired of mediocrity. If you like it, hey whatever, everybody\'s got their own preferences. But things need to be shaken up. I can\'t stand being mediocre. I got what you were saying. But let me ask you this! If we go 1-15 ... what will be our record the following year? The year after? The year after that? Who will be our coach? Will we finally sign a bunch of big-name free agents in the offseason?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-26-2005, 08:02 PM	#5
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	The Extremes Who knows? But if we go 8-8, the FO will continue to think that we have a team that is on the verge of greatness, so they will get complacent and not go after any big free agents like we\'ve done the last few seasons. If we go 1-15, maybe it will make them realize that something needs to change. I think that\'s what the problem is right now: they don\'t think anything has to change. They\'ve grown complacent. But something does need to change because 32-32 shows that we have been doing the same damn thing for four seasons. I hope the Saints go 16-0 this year, but if we go 8-8 what\'s going to change? NOTHING. But what have we accomplished? NOTHING. 8-8 is unacceptable. We need to strive for something better, and this regime is obviously not concerned with doing that because they have grown complacent and comfortable with mediocrity, with 8-8 seasons, with being a .500 franchise. Well that pisses me off, and I think something needs to change, because if nothing does change then we will always be a .500 club, and what good does that do? NONE.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

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04-26-2005, 08:11 PM	#6
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	The Extremes Who knows? But if we go 8-8, the FO will continue to think that we have a team that is on the verge of greatness, so they will get complacent and not go after any big free agents like we\'ve done the last few seasons. If we go 1-15, maybe it will make them realize that something needs to change. I think that\'s what the problem is right now: they don\'t think anything has to change. They\'ve grown complacent. But something does need to change because 32-32 shows that we have been doing the same damn thing for four seasons. I hope the Saints go 16-0 this year, but if we go 8-8 what\'s going to change? NOTHING. But what have we accomplished? NOTHING. 8-8 is unacceptable. We need to strive for something better, and this regime is obviously not concerned with doing that because they have grown complacent and comfortable with mediocrity, with 8-8 seasons, with being a .500 franchise. Well that pisses me off, and I think something needs to change, because if nothing does change then we will always be a .500 club, and what good does that do? NONE. If you really feel as if Haslett, Loomis and co. are content with mediocrity ... then the best thing, IMHO, is for you to hope we lose our first 13-games. That\'s your best bet for changes to be made. If you think changes need to be made, then you should hope for us to lose a bunch of games this year. The thing is ... you are hoping for \"changes\" to be made in the HOPE of us getting better. And if changes are made then I will support the next coach. Sometimes changes are good. But, ultimately I don\'t control who the next coach is going to be. We might end up with someone like Jerry Glanville or Carl Smith as our head coach. Or we could end up with Bill Belichick. Who knows? But what I do know is that no matter who the coach is ... I hope we win every game. I\'d rather go 8-8 than 3-13. No matter what MIGHT happen. There\'s just not enough guarantees for me to hope we lose ONE game. I think if you ask any coach they\'ll say losing never helped anything. [Edited on 27/4/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-26-2005, 08:25 PM	#7
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	The Extremes I don\'t want to sound like a broken record, but what\'s the difference between being 8-8 and not going to the playoffs and being 3-13? Nothing, except you get a better draft pick if you\'re 3-13. Being 8-8 and never winning a playoff game is just as bad as being 0-16. This league is all about the playoffs, and I want the Saints to do whatever it takes to make it there. But if things don\'t change around here, we\'re never going to get there. We\'re going to be 8-8 forever under this regime. Things need to change. Win \'em all, or lose enough to start some change. [Edited on 27/4/2005 by TheDeuce]
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

04-26-2005, 08:28 PM	#8
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	The Extremes I always pull for the Saints too. That isn\'t what I was saying. I was saying I\'m tired of mediocrity. If you like it, hey whatever, everybody\'s got their own preferences. But things need to be shaken up. I can\'t stand being mediocre. Mediocrity=Chad Brown available and not going after him, while the Patriots do go after him!!!

04-26-2005, 09:07 PM	#9
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	The Extremes I don\'t want to sound like a broken record, but what\'s the difference between being 8-8 and not going to the playoffs and being 3-13? Nothing, except you get a better draft pick if you\'re 3-13. Being 8-8 and never winning a playoff game is just as bad as being 0-16. This league is all about the playoffs, and I want the Saints to do whatever it takes to make it there. But if things don\'t change around here, we\'re never going to get there. We\'re going to be 8-8 forever under this regime. Things need to change. Win \'em all, or lose enough to start some change. [Edited on 27/4/2005 by TheDeuce] We\'ve had high draft picks since Haslett has been here. We picked 6th a few years back. We picked 13th this year. We\'ve had high picks before Haslett was here and never won a playoff game. The Patriots haven\'t won 3-superbowls because they\'ve had high draft picks. They\'ve gone because they have a solid organization from top to bottom. Maybe if we lose enough games Haslett will get fired and we\'ll be a super bowl champ with the next coach. Or maybe we get a coach and we\'ll be one of the worst teams in the league for the next 5 years. I see what you\'re saying. You think a change is better than just going 8-8 every year. Well ... maybe. When Haslett was brought in to replace Mike Ditka we won our 1st playoff game. So, in that case .. change was good. At least for that one year. Here\'s the thing. Mr. Tom Benson controls who is the GM and the coach. Given Benson\'spast history of picking GMs and coaches, I\'m feeling pretty good about Haslett and 8-8. I just can\'t worry about who Tom Benson is going to replace Loomis and Haslett with. I\'m a fan and I just pull for whoever is here. We\'ve been close and we are a talented team. Maybe that will finally pay off and maybe it won\'t. What can I do? Nothing!! I just keep being a fan and hope my team wins.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-26-2005, 09:15 PM	#10
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	The Extremes I see your point that you can\'t do anything about it, but I still can\'t stand being 8-8. And I hope that it isn\'t even losing that gets some changes done. I hope Haslett gets busted for selling drugs to the FO. Then we can get somebody from the outside who realizes that what the Saints need is a change, to be more aggressive in Free Agency, and understands the weaknesses of our team as they truly are.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928