Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

Dewayne Robertson
Games/ total tackles/ assists/ sacks
2003 New York Jets 16/ 43/ 34.0/ 1.5
2004 New York Jets 16/ 52/ 36.0/ 16/ 3
TOTAL 32/ 95/ 70.0/ 4.5

Jonathan Sullivan
Games/ total tackles/ assists/ sacks
2003 New Orleans Saints 14/ 33/ 25.0/ 1
2004 New Orleans Saints 7/ 15/ 11.0/ 0.5
TOTAL 21/ 48/ 36.0/ 12/ 1.5

Dewayne Robertson total tackles: 95
Jonathan Sullivan total tackles: 48

Dewayne Robertson total sacks: 4.5
Jonathan Sullivan total sacks: 1.5

Dewayne Robertson games played: 32
Jonathan Sullivan games played: 21


Note: Sullivan was right there stat wise with Roberstson his first year. And it appears that if Sully would have played in as many games that he would have come close to matching Roberston's prodution for the 1st two years.

Just thought it was interesting. Hopefully Sully will see the field this year.

Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

well he would have played in as many games if he wasn\'t a lazy fat a$$ that needs to get kicked to the curb!!!!

Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

Perhaps. But based on production in actual games, Sully doesn\'t seem too far off pace with Dewayne Robertson.


[Edited on 1/5/2005 by GumboBC]

Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

Independent of stats: Roberston - starter, Sullivan - bench.

Why was Sullivan benched, not because he was hurt but because he stunk.

This is not a case where we can say this: if Sullivan played more games, he would be doing about the same as Robertson. The reason Sullivan isn\'t playing is because he sucked. Thus, there is NO reason to believe that Sullivan could be doing as well as Robertson with as much playing time, since he could have had as much playing time if he hadn\'t sucked.

This argument is a real stretch. To draw an analogy, there must be some reason to believe the two are alike in relevant respects. These two lack the following relevant respect: desire to play football.

Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

Amen Kool. You hit that one out the park.

Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

Yeah Kool....
it think those Hot dogs had a big influence on Sully\'s attitude.....he heard they ran out of mustard and stoped playing......... :casstet:

Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

JKool --

You\'ve been making some pretty bold statements lately. That\'s not like you. But, I like it. Speak your mind.

But, I\'m going to have to disagree. Haslett didn\'t bench Sullivan because he sucked. He benched Sullivan because he came into camp overweight and didn\'t lose the weight during the season.

Sullivan was in Haslett\'s dog-house from day one and remained there the whole season.

Tebucky Jones \"sucked\" but Haslett didn\'t bench him. Victor Riley \"sucked\" but Haslett didn\'t bench him.

And obviously Haslett still doesn\'t beleive Sullivan sucks. He\'s still on the team. Where\'s Tebucky Jones?

Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

Actually, he did bench him cause he sucked. They were going to let the weight thing slide and let Sullivan \"play his way through it.\" But he never did, got worse and was thus benched. A guy who was i the dog house was Devery, who never saw the field. You don\'t start the first game if you are in the dog house. Sullivan sucked, and it got so bad he was benched, and not for health reasons.

Well, he led the team in tackles. And who else was gonna play FS, Gleason, Mitchell? Yeah right.

He had his moments, but who else was gonna play RT? Noone else was ready, and that was apparent in the Tampa game.

Costs A LOT more for them to cut Sully than it did for them to cut Jones. That\'s a no brainer. It\'s cheaper to keep him. But this also begs thequestion, if Tebucky and Riley were SO bad, why didn\'t they find players off the street to take over them like they did for Sully? That pretty much says it all. I would rather go with a guy who I have little idea about and who was sitting at home than have you on the field. That\'s a pretty definitive statement of Sullivan\'s suckitude.

Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

saintwhodi --

You see it your way and I see it mine.

You could be right. Sullivan could have sucked so bad that Haslett thought ANYbody would be better. That might be the same reason Haslett shipped Grady Jackson off to Green Bay.

I have NO proof why Haslett benched Sullivan. Only speculation. Which is all anyone has.

I didn\'t start this thread to bring up the same ol\' arguements. Though I\'m fine discussing them.

I was just looking at other DT\'s that were drafted when Sullivan was drafted.

Given Sullivans first year production (which nearly equaled Dewayne Robertsons) I think I can draw the conclusion that Sully would have come close to his production had he been on the field. I don\'t think that\'s too big of a stretch. Even though JKool might disagree.

Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

I think the quote should have read.

Sullivan was in Haslett\'s hotdog-house from day one and remained there the whole season. :chef:

[Edited on 1/5/2005 by JOESAM2002]

Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

Billy, I\'m just feeling a little crotchety today. I gotta go though - more on this when I return.

Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

Also, not to make too fine a point of it, Robertson was not a full time starter when they drafted him. They had Jason Ferguson(full time starter now in Dallas), Josh Evans(starter when he wasn\'t injured), Chester McGlockton and James Reed. Robertson started the games, but he was spelled a lot and brought along slowly. He then showed improvement in year two. I am with Kool, I don\'t know how the conclusion could be drawn that Sullivan would have had the same production had he played.

If we are looking at other DTs, we should use more than one. Let\'s look at Kevin Williams the second year pro bowler drafted after Sullivan.

G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD PassDef
16 51 36.0 15 10.5 1 3 3.0 3 0 3
16 70 52.0 18 11.5 1 7 7.0 7 0 7

Seems like his stats blew Sullivan\'s away completely. Again, drafted after Sullivan. So two DTs. One that blew Sully away, and one that was brought on slowly in year one, and actually improved in year two. I haven\'t found any articles about him showing up to Jets\' camp overweight though. Maybe being at your playing weight and wanting to improve can help you as a player? Who knew?

But, honestly I can\'t see how the statement that Sully would have had stats similar to Robertson in year two had he played. That\'s totally unsubstantiated, but what can be proven is Sully obviously does not have the DESIRE to play and get better like Robertson, so a case coul dbe made for the exact opposite, which is what actually happened.

Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

Is 11.5 still on our roster?

Yea, I\'m sure 2005 will be his bust out year.
He\'ll have a huge season I\'m sure.
He\'ll make people eat their words.
Hot dog! I\'m excited about his chances.
There\'s no time to waste.
Hurry sign him to a big fat contract extension.


Sullivan is officially a bust until HE proves otherwise. And he may have to prove it for more than 1 year to shake that bust label.

Can we get some cap relief for only having a 52 man roster?

Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

gumbo ur right except that sully just didnt have any drive and that is why he didnt play in as many games as robertson. but im hoping that this guy gets his arse in gear this year.

Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

phew, good job guys. i knew what to expect from this thread before i even opened it. when your evalutation of a defensive lineman is from stats only you might attempt to paint some picture you want from convoluted numbers. anyone with any football IQ can look at the play and performance of those lineman and see the difference with your eyes however. you don\'t need any stats. robertson was a disappointment in year one but not considered a bust. he was widely recognized last year for radically turning his game around and stepping up in performance. williams? hahaha, probowl enough comparison?
maybe you can billy but you obviously saw a different sullivan with your eyes than the one we saw last year. he gave no sign of that in performance when on the field and when off only said and did things to make that perception stronger.
hmmm...
eddie brown had a bigger rookie year than jerry rice, more catches, 5 more td\'s, offensive rookie of the year. Given Brown\'s first year production (which surpassed Rice\'s) I think I can draw the conclusion that Brown would have surpassed Rice\'s production had he been on the field. I don\'t think that\'s too big of a stretch. Brown 102 games, Rice 303. Brown 363 catches, Rice 1549. Oops.
Hey, I hope Sully can do something. he\'s gonna get paid either way so anything would be better than what he has shown thusfar. I hope I win the lottery this month too.

Jonathan Sullivan vs. Dewayne Robertson - First 2 years
 

LKELLEY ur right. its not that sully was horrible his rookie season its that he wasnt in shape in year two. never mind the fact that he didnt seem to want to play. i hope the guy gets it in gear