...the AB challenge.

yasoon · 05-02-2005, 04:54 PM

Alright, so Gumbo catches alot of poop around here for supporting AB. I was never in the bashers club until this year, when I felt like he was regressing.

While i rarely agree with gumbo, I want him to understand that I have no vendetta against AB, I am just tired of him. I would love to see him do well and I would root him on mightily if he were to step up in '05.

So...here's what I wanna do. If AB lives up to a set of standards in'05 (to be determined here), I will purchase an AB bobblehead and mail it to Gumbo myself. I may even include and autographed picture of me holding it wearing my Deuce jersey :)

I am a man of my word and I will hook Billy up if AB meets the standards.

There are a couple of automatics. If AB starts the NFC championship game, Gumbo gets a bobblehead. If he starts and wins the superbowl.....I'll throw in a replica jersey.

So....all the bashers out there. What numbers would AB have to put up for you to say "whoa, I'll lay off"?

I'm not asking for ridiculous numbers, we know that they say there will be more running this year. That means ratio would be more relevant than saying 30 TDs and 10 INTs.

So, how bout a 2.5 passing TDs to Picks ratio?
He would have won the challenge 2 years ago with a 24 to 8 mark which brings me to fumbles.

How is a 2 to 1 TDs to turnovers ratio? rushing TDs would count against this mark.

If AB threw 25 TDs, 10 picks and fumbled say 7 times, would that silence the critics?
I would call that a pretty good year, especially if Deuce is healthy all year.

What would it take for misunderstood and unappreciated AB to shut up the critics and send me to the mailbox with an AB bobblehead addressed to Gumbo?

(For the record, I would love to have to pay up on this one.)

[Edited on 5/3/2005 by Halo]

saintswhodi · 05-02-2005, 05:00 PM

If AB threw 25 TDs, 10 picks and fumbled say 7 times, would that silence the critics?
I would call that a pretty good year, especially if Deuce is healthy all year.

25 TDs with 17 turnovers? Are our standards that low? Or is the 7 not the figure for lost fumbles? This is my standard, show up. Don\'t wait until the 2nd half, or until the 4th quarter, show up from the opening kick, and play like the game means something.

And no more ESPN blooper material. Cut the dumb mistakes.

And for crap\'s sake, complete better than 60% of your passes. Put the ball in a position where the receivers can make a play after they catch it.

I would be very happy with just these.

chRxis · 05-02-2005, 05:01 PM

10-11 wins.... i could give a **** about his individual accomplishments

yasoon · 05-02-2005, 05:12 PM

10-11 wins.... i could give a **** about his individual accomplishments

Good answer.

25 TDs with 17 turnovers? Are our standards that low? Or is the 7 not the figure for lost fumbles?

This is what I\'m talking about. I agree....he would need to have 7 fumbles and like 4 lost or something. I\'m trying to be nice

Let\'s see how peyton would have done (the ridiculous gold standard):

Wow....I didn\'t realize how bad this was:

49 TD, 10 INT, 0 rushing TDs, 5 fumbles, 0 lost.

That\'s just ridiculous.

Let\'s look at Donovan:

31 TD, 8 INT, 3 rushing TDS, 8 fumbles, 0 lost.

That\'s nfl.com. Could it be that neither of these guys lost a fumble? I\'m not sure I buy that.

So, whodi, are you saying 3 to 1 TDs to picks? And maybe 2.5 to 1 total TDs to total turnovers? Is that fair to AB and not setting the bar too low?

saintswhodi · 05-02-2005, 05:18 PM

So, whodi, are you saying 3 to 1 TDs to picks? And maybe 2.5 to 1 total TDs to total turnovers? Is that fair to AB and not setting the bar too low?

The turnovers are never my problem, it\'s when they happen and the net result. Leading the league in red zone turnovers? Oh my God no. Don\'t do that again. But yes, a 3 to one TD to INT and a 2.5 TD to TO ratio seems more than fair for a 5th year starter with a revamped line and a commitment fromt he team to run. I would be very amenable to that.

FireVenturi · 05-02-2005, 06:38 PM

10 wins....period

LKelley67 · 05-02-2005, 06:45 PM

ditto in that personal accomplishments are not the standard. that is the guy\'s m.o.- decent stats but stupid mistakes at critical junctures. i would demand that he learn to hold on to the ball somehow. his fumble rate has never been acceptable. he didn\'t get as much flak last year cuz most of them were recovered. that is just chance how that happens. quit giving up the ball 13 times a year. wouldn\'t 6 be a reasonable goal? that number he does generally have control over, not like drops or hurries from pressure. bottomline for me is wins. 11 or 12 and a clearcut division win would be a nice change. eeking in on the last weekend with 9-10 wins, whether wildcard or division win won\'t excite me greatly unless a couple of playoff wins can follow. it is hard for me to imagine that happening and AB not having a solid year. either that mcpherson comes in for an injury and has some kinda big ben fantasy.

JKool · 05-02-2005, 07:07 PM

If personal performances don\'t matter to you guys, how can you differentiate between players who are good or bad?

Charles Grant didn\'t get us 10 wins. Are you going to be down on him if we don\'t get 10 wins next year? If the answer is no, then you DO care about individual performance.

Guess who else didn\'t get us 10 wins? Joe Horn, Darrin Howard, LeCharles Bentley, Duece McAllister, Mike McKenzie, and the list goes on!

If you are down on AB for not getting us wins and you are not down on these other guys to exactly the same extent, then you are either inconsistent or you do care about individual performance (and, by simple entailment, its statistical description).

Saint_LB · 05-02-2005, 07:16 PM

If personal performances don\'t matter to you guys, how can you differentiate between players who are good or bad?

Charles Grant didn\'t get us 10 wins. Are you going to be down on him if we don\'t get 10 wins next year? If the answer is no, then you DO care about individual performance.

Guess who else didn\'t get us 10 wins? Joe Horn, Darrin Howard, LeCharles Bentley, Duece McAllister, Mike McKenzie, and the list goes on!

If you are down on AB for not getting us wins and you are not down on these other guys to exactly the same extent, then you are either inconsistent or you do care about individual performance (and, by simple entailment, its statistical description).

Kool, I see the point you are trying to make, but, like it or not, the QB is the focal point of the football team. Quoting a QB\'s W/L record is very common. He could be compared to the pitcher in baseball, who certainly does accumulate a W/L record, even though there are 8 other guys on the field that have something to say about the outcome of the game.

LKelley67 · 05-02-2005, 07:23 PM

not individual performance kool, but i dont care about individual accomplishments, particularly stats. what makes brady recognized? not his stats particularly. marino the all time stats guy played in an era alongside montana. who do ya chose when the crunch is on? yes, statistics will bear out over a long haul but it amounts to little with no ring. marino was hall of fame. he would have traded the individual accolades for a couple more shots in the superbowl i bet though. a de can have 3 sacks and have a great season- garnering double teams all season and allowing the other rushers to add more total sacks. a de that only cares about sacks will be a liability against the run. the essence of football as perhaps the most emphatic \"team\" game is it\'s beauty. yeah, judge individual performance but on performance as a team member not individual accomplishments.

05-02-2005, 04:54 PM	#1
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	...the AB challenge. Alright, so Gumbo catches alot of poop around here for supporting AB. I was never in the bashers club until this year, when I felt like he was regressing. While i rarely agree with gumbo, I want him to understand that I have no vendetta against AB, I am just tired of him. I would love to see him do well and I would root him on mightily if he were to step up in '05. So...here's what I wanna do. If AB lives up to a set of standards in'05 (to be determined here), I will purchase an AB bobblehead and mail it to Gumbo myself. I may even include and autographed picture of me holding it wearing my Deuce jersey :) I am a man of my word and I will hook Billy up if AB meets the standards. There are a couple of automatics. If AB starts the NFC championship game, Gumbo gets a bobblehead. If he starts and wins the superbowl.....I'll throw in a replica jersey. So....all the bashers out there. What numbers would AB have to put up for you to say "whoa, I'll lay off"? I'm not asking for ridiculous numbers, we know that they say there will be more running this year. That means ratio would be more relevant than saying 30 TDs and 10 INTs. So, how bout a 2.5 passing TDs to Picks ratio? He would have won the challenge 2 years ago with a 24 to 8 mark which brings me to fumbles. How is a 2 to 1 TDs to turnovers ratio? rushing TDs would count against this mark. If AB threw 25 TDs, 10 picks and fumbled say 7 times, would that silence the critics? I would call that a pretty good year, especially if Deuce is healthy all year. What would it take for misunderstood and unappreciated AB to shut up the critics and send me to the mailbox with an AB bobblehead addressed to Gumbo? (For the record, I would love to have to pay up on this one.) [Edited on 5/3/2005 by Halo]
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

05-02-2005, 05:00 PM	#2
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	...the AB challenge. If AB threw 25 TDs, 10 picks and fumbled say 7 times, would that silence the critics? I would call that a pretty good year, especially if Deuce is healthy all year. 25 TDs with 17 turnovers? Are our standards that low? Or is the 7 not the figure for lost fumbles? This is my standard, show up. Don\'t wait until the 2nd half, or until the 4th quarter, show up from the opening kick, and play like the game means something. And no more ESPN blooper material. Cut the dumb mistakes. And for crap\'s sake, complete better than 60% of your passes. Put the ball in a position where the receivers can make a play after they catch it. I would be very happy with just these.

05-02-2005, 05:01 PM	#3
chRxis 500th Post Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 690	...the AB challenge. 10-11 wins.... i could give a **** about his individual accomplishments

05-02-2005, 05:12 PM	#4
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	...the AB challenge. 10-11 wins.... i could give a **** about his individual accomplishments Good answer. 25 TDs with 17 turnovers? Are our standards that low? Or is the 7 not the figure for lost fumbles? This is what I\'m talking about. I agree....he would need to have 7 fumbles and like 4 lost or something. I\'m trying to be nice Let\'s see how peyton would have done (the ridiculous gold standard): Wow....I didn\'t realize how bad this was: 49 TD, 10 INT, 0 rushing TDs, 5 fumbles, 0 lost. That\'s just ridiculous. Let\'s look at Donovan: 31 TD, 8 INT, 3 rushing TDS, 8 fumbles, 0 lost. That\'s nfl.com. Could it be that neither of these guys lost a fumble? I\'m not sure I buy that. So, whodi, are you saying 3 to 1 TDs to picks? And maybe 2.5 to 1 total TDs to total turnovers? Is that fair to AB and not setting the bar too low?
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

05-02-2005, 05:18 PM	#5
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	...the AB challenge. So, whodi, are you saying 3 to 1 TDs to picks? And maybe 2.5 to 1 total TDs to total turnovers? Is that fair to AB and not setting the bar too low? The turnovers are never my problem, it\'s when they happen and the net result. Leading the league in red zone turnovers? Oh my God no. Don\'t do that again. But yes, a 3 to one TD to INT and a 2.5 TD to TO ratio seems more than fair for a 5th year starter with a revamped line and a commitment fromt he team to run. I would be very amenable to that.

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05-02-2005, 06:38 PM	#6
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	...the AB challenge. 10 wins....period

05-02-2005, 06:45 PM	#7
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	...the AB challenge. ditto in that personal accomplishments are not the standard. that is the guy\'s m.o.- decent stats but stupid mistakes at critical junctures. i would demand that he learn to hold on to the ball somehow. his fumble rate has never been acceptable. he didn\'t get as much flak last year cuz most of them were recovered. that is just chance how that happens. quit giving up the ball 13 times a year. wouldn\'t 6 be a reasonable goal? that number he does generally have control over, not like drops or hurries from pressure. bottomline for me is wins. 11 or 12 and a clearcut division win would be a nice change. eeking in on the last weekend with 9-10 wins, whether wildcard or division win won\'t excite me greatly unless a couple of playoff wins can follow. it is hard for me to imagine that happening and AB not having a solid year. either that mcpherson comes in for an injury and has some kinda big ben fantasy.

05-02-2005, 07:07 PM	#8
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	...the AB challenge. If personal performances don\'t matter to you guys, how can you differentiate between players who are good or bad? Charles Grant didn\'t get us 10 wins. Are you going to be down on him if we don\'t get 10 wins next year? If the answer is no, then you DO care about individual performance. Guess who else didn\'t get us 10 wins? Joe Horn, Darrin Howard, LeCharles Bentley, Duece McAllister, Mike McKenzie, and the list goes on! If you are down on AB for not getting us wins and you are not down on these other guys to exactly the same extent, then you are either inconsistent or you do care about individual performance (and, by simple entailment, its statistical description).
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

05-02-2005, 07:16 PM	#9
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	...the AB challenge. If personal performances don\'t matter to you guys, how can you differentiate between players who are good or bad? Charles Grant didn\'t get us 10 wins. Are you going to be down on him if we don\'t get 10 wins next year? If the answer is no, then you DO care about individual performance. Guess who else didn\'t get us 10 wins? Joe Horn, Darrin Howard, LeCharles Bentley, Duece McAllister, Mike McKenzie, and the list goes on! If you are down on AB for not getting us wins and you are not down on these other guys to exactly the same extent, then you are either inconsistent or you do care about individual performance (and, by simple entailment, its statistical description). Kool, I see the point you are trying to make, but, like it or not, the QB is the focal point of the football team. Quoting a QB\'s W/L record is very common. He could be compared to the pitcher in baseball, who certainly does accumulate a W/L record, even though there are 8 other guys on the field that have something to say about the outcome of the game.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894

05-02-2005, 07:23 PM	#10
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	...the AB challenge. not individual performance kool, but i dont care about individual accomplishments, particularly stats. what makes brady recognized? not his stats particularly. marino the all time stats guy played in an era alongside montana. who do ya chose when the crunch is on? yes, statistics will bear out over a long haul but it amounts to little with no ring. marino was hall of fame. he would have traded the individual accolades for a couple more shots in the superbowl i bet though. a de can have 3 sacks and have a great season- garnering double teams all season and allowing the other rushers to add more total sacks. a de that only cares about sacks will be a liability against the run. the essence of football as perhaps the most emphatic \"team\" game is it\'s beauty. yeah, judge individual performance but on performance as a team member not individual accomplishments.