Re: I’m not sexist
 

If I don’t like trees in my yard does that make me treeist? I don’t have a dislike for trees I just don’t like them in my yard.

Sexism and racism have to do with your feelings and preconceived notions of the group as a whole. Not the individual or individual circumstance.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

This shows nothing. The job you choose, the years in that field, the hours worked all matter. Taking a broad study that does not take these into account proves nothing more than what we already know, women choose lower paying fields and generally spend less years in the workforce. What's your point they're being compensated appropriately for their choices. If so, yes you're right

Re: I’m not sexist
 

DUUDDDE.... Are you saying that Kaitlyn Jenner isn't a man? :bart:

https://media.giphy.com/media/13rROlwqAKiypq/giphy.gif

Who knew that Bart Simpson was gay?





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Re: I’m not sexist
 

It seems that way, yeah.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

I guess this is important to post in this thread.
Don't confuse Liberals with Leftists. :D

Re: I’m not sexist
 

There's nothing more scientific than showing how much money people make, without giving so much as an ounce of context. This point has been made numerous times now.

It is well known by anyone who has bothered to do an in depth study of this so-called "wage gap", that a majority of women set their work schedule to accommodate family life. In general, the man is either the sole provider, or the main provider. So women aren't working as many hours and, as a result, they aren't advancing to a level that would pay them equal to men. There is no evidence of any systematic prejudice toward women who are working the same positions and same amount of hours as men, in any given field.

I could show you a chart showing how much more money people age 30 to 65 are making, as opposed to those ages, say, 16 to 29 are making. And it would show a FAR greater disparity than what we see with women vs. men. But there is a clear reason for that. Experience. With women, it's the same thing. They live a different lifestyle, on average, that affords them less time to work and, therefore, less experience. But they work more often than teenagers do, and so they still make more money than that crowd.

It's really not that difficult to understand, if one is willing to take their "injustice" glasses off and actually work TOWARD a conclusion, instead of starting with one.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

I find it very interesting that for centuries, biologist have been classifying organisms based upon physical characteristics. Recently, with advances in genetics, the classification process is now based upon genetic "finger prints". When trace quantities of DNA can be found, this technique is even being used to identify/classify fossils. One field of science is used to advance another field of science. That's the way it's supposed to work.

Unfortunately, when it comes to humans, science only applies when it is convenient. A person's sex (aka gender) is based upon a wish, regardless of what the DNA says. Today I'm a man, tomorrow I'm a woman. Next week I'm going to learn to swim. So, I'm a fish?

Barbarino was right..

Re: I’m not sexist
 

The number one cost of all businesses is their employees. Any business that could slash cost by 20% overnight by simply hiring all women would. They wouldn't think twice.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

Ignore the facts. Fine. There is clearly pay gap. Employers for the most part are driven by the bottom line. Given all other factors the average employer would hire the employee willing to work for less. This is a major factor of the very real pay gap. The demographics willing to working for less are unfortunately both women and minorities. And why are they willing to work for less? Because that is the best avenue for getting and sustaining employment. It is a Catch 22 that has taken half a century to improve and most likely another half century to be eliminated. Other factors, although, do include varying degrees of discrimination.

This pay disparagement exists at every level from hocking burgers to the corporate ladder rungs.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

Exactly! You just supported my post. This is a major factor in the VERY REAL pay gap between men and women. I thought you said it was a lie.

:confused:

Re: I’m not sexist
 

IBM Watson gonna do football games. Might as well to go with the commercials. :)

Re: I’m not sexist
 

Which would result in an Affirmative Action lawsuit because that was actually a law put in place to benefit any social group being mistreated. Women have benefitted the most from Affirmative Action. White women in particular.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

This is similar to the global warming (please don’t start on this, it’s just a reference).

The lie being pushed is that somehow the stats are because of employer bias and that something can be done to change it.

Poll a thousand males and a thousand females and ask them.. Given a conflict between family/Home responsibility’s and career which one do you gravitate to? You’ll find that females have a much higher propensity to focus on the home and family while males gravitate towards work.

So two lawyers are married and have a child, the majority of the time the female will be the one who’s career gets put on hold.

If you need a study to believe that you are pretty clueless in regards to human nature.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

No one is ignoring facts. You have only shown a chart showing wages of women vs. men in various places. From there you just say things. You make statements without hard facts.

You claim discrimination, and you pretend to know the mind of every employer, yet you have nothing but hearsay to demonstrate these things.

ANYONE who is willing to take less, is going to make less. If you aren't going to fight for yourself, you get what you get. You know what companies REALLY like? Productivity. If you are good at what you do, they won't be looking to short change you.

The people who tend to make the least, are illegal immigrants, because, well, they aren't actually entitled to make ANY money in this country. Do companies look to benefit from that? You bet. But do you know what causes some businesses to look for cheap labor? Suffocating regulations. Cheap labor is the norm in places like Mexico, and that is why so many businesses have, are were ready to leave this country.

Trump has lifted these regulations, companies are coming back, they are raising their wages, black unemployment is at it's lowest rate ever, and women have their highest employment numbers in a long time.

It's funny what happens when the government gets out of the way of businesses. Those businesses tend to have a lot more freedom to pay all of their employees. In the kind of suffocating economy that we've endured for decades, you either hire only the utmost qualified applicants and go with a short staff, or you just hire the most desperate people who you can pay the least. Again, women simply do not accumulate the same level of experience as men do, on average, and this naturally means that their pay scale is going to be lower.

Yet, when a women, or black person, shows a unique set of skills, they unsurprisingly find themselves doing just fine. That woudn't be so, if employers made decisions based on prejudice.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

Yes, exactly.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

I guess you missed the part about the numbers being based upon US Census Bureau data on males and females working similar full-time, year-round jobs.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

FFS Guido I didn’t mis any parts. I’ll spell it out for you.

Dick and Jane work for Boeing both on the assembly line and started the same date 20 years ago. Bob has 20 years in that job, Judy has has two children in the last 20 years and too two years of for each. Judy missed 4 years with of pay raises.

Same full-time job, same company, same start date.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

You're going to have to define "similar". Are you aware that there are actually no laws constituting what a "full time" job is? Employers decide what is full time, in order to determine certain benefits they might provide to those who qualify under THEIR terms.

People generally tend to think of 40 hours a week as being full time. But then you will have other full-timers who might be working 60, or 70, or even 80 hours. And those who provide the most value based upon their output, will receive those hours and pay raises.

And, yet again, women tend to be more inclined to ask for less so that they can be home with their children, while their husbands provide the bulk of the income. That is just life. Progressivism has tried desperately to eliminate traditional family values, and tells us that women shouldn't HAVE to be stay at home moms. But, someone has to be home with the kids, and most women accept that that is their role. It is not demeaning or devaluing women. It is their natural role, just as men are providers and protectors. You think it's convenient for men to take that on? No. It's just the way it is.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

If she took two years off for each wouldn't that mean she only has 16 years in the company? Because if the company miraculously kept her own and let her have two years of maternity leave for each child instead of her leaving the company all together and then coming back she still would have gotten the raises just like everybody else right? I know maternity leave doesn't stop anybody from getting raises here in the hospital.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

That is understood and a factor, of course. Yet, it is not enough to account for the 30% discrepancy in Louisiana (unsurprisingly the greatest of all fifty states) and the 20% nationally.

John and Susan, both unmarried and freshly out of college holding degrees in accounting, apply for employment at the same corporation. With all qualifications being equal Susan is offered a position starting at $35K per year. John is offered an equal position starting at $40K per year. The employer, from past experience, was correct in assuming that this would be acceptable salaries to the new applicants.

Tim and June, both with two school age children and a working spouse apply for jobs with the same corporation. Same qualifications. June has two less years of total work experience, but still has ample experience and is otherwise completely qualified for the required position. John is given a level three position while June is offered a position classified at level two. The difference between the two pay levels is $12K per year. Tim and Jane do the exact same work on a day to day basis.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

Yes sir... I’m on my phone so that “too Two” should have said lost two for each putting her total time with the company 4 years behind Bob.

Females do a lot of amazing things that we don’t. They focus on the family in most cases better than we ever will, they also tend to take a career break to tend to sick and or dying family members before we do. My wife has done both..

Re: I’m not sexist
 

This is understood. Yet, the numbers representing the gap are still significant when factoring things like this. It's real. It happens all the time and it is something that will take generation to solve. Ignoring the fact that is truly does exist is part of the problem.

My wife was several years into her career in nursing when we first met. We married and had two fine boys with her taking off six weeks each time. She lost no seniority due to the time off. Now 30 years further into her career, now as a malpractice claims adjuster with an RNC and reaching top production goals in her company she is likely still getting less than a male hired at the same time with even lessor qualifications.

Even if the company gives all employees the identical percentage raise it increases the pay differential of the two individuals. That's basic mathematics. This is another problem that needs to be addressed.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

I got you, but that's not the similar circumstances Guido is talking about. He's saying when both people really have 20 years in the company, same start date, didn't take extended time for maternity leave, and etc., there's still a gap. From what I've read, the gap shrinks when accounting for all these factors, but there's still a gap nonetheless. I feel like men should be given paid-maternity leave as well, but that's a different discussion for a different day.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

I agree, and yes another discussion. Many reasons why I would support this.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

I cannot stop laughing at this post.

There's a Darwin award winner there.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

This thread has gone sideways. Ya'll making my head hurt lol.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

Good for you pal. I'm glad you found something to laugh about. Folks like you spend so much time being offended it's a wonder you manage to function apart from outrage. I've seen your posts and opinions on a variety of things and have gotten many good laughs as a result. I assure you, I'll be losing no sleep over what you think. ;)

Re: I’m not sexist
 

I’m not in either camp I think the truth always rests between right and wrong, left and right. I see people argue left and right all day with neither being100% correct. I also know that there is no such thing as a statement that covers all situations but rather a potentially unique situation for every unique person on the planet. Yes women have been intentionally underpaid or not paid at all for centuries and yes there are still things that need to be done.

My point being that there is a lot of nuance that statistics don’t cover. I’ve been a hiring and talent manager.. This statement covers over 70% of the situations. When it comes to hiring compensation and performance based pay raises males are more aggressive generally than females.

For what it’s worth I agent worked at a company where pay raises were blanket except for the US ARMY, every where else I have been it’s been performance based.

For the record, any jackazz bigot Manager that will compensate more purely on gender need never manage people.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

Go on ahead and preach that :censored: !!

Re: I’m not sexist
 

Could it have something to do with the fact that June has two years less experience than Tim?

Susan, June, Jane, Tim, and John are all morons for not negotiating their initial pay rate.

Guy or girl the more money you make me the more money I give you.

If I hire you at $15 an hour and you take it that’s your bad because I probably would have given you $20.
I negotiated a salary last month and got 15k a year more for the job than I was offered. The WOMAN I was in negotiations with didn’t bat an eye.
Didn’t take the job but everything is negotiable if you have the qualifications.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

I'll just note the lack of supporting research for the conclusions drawn here.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

Have you done any 'research' to contradict?

Never mind. Rhetorical question...

Re: I’m not sexist
 

Questions? What the ‘f’ happened to Jane? And who is Judy? Is she the trolip that Dick is doing while Jane works all those years?

Re: I’m not sexist
 

What is strange to me is the fact that married men would actually benefit from collaborating with women to close the pay gap. And, yet, here in this forum, far from that kind of mutually beneficial collaboration, most of the men here deny the existence of a pay gap.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

This is so true. Being married with a working wife why would you not want work to help close the gap instead of denying it exists. The caveat being that those arguing that there is no gap may either be unmarried or married to women that either do not work or do not work full-time. In these cases a pay gap doesn't seem to exist in their eyes.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

Re: I’m not sexist
 

LOL. Worked for a hospital owned HMO for 17.5 years and can agree with much of what you say. And I also agree that legislative solutions to the gap (that for some reason some deny) can become a slippery slope. And that is why it is estimated that it may take another 40-50 years for the scale to balance.

And I was waiting for your input as I knew you are an employer. You have confirmed that willingness to work for a given pay is a major factor in hiring (I am assuming all other factors being equal besides gender, right). It is going to take education on both sides of the fence and, yes, maybe degree of nudging legislation that isn't too over the top.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

Nice try bro, but there is no stopping this thread now. But I appreciate your attempt at the humor, I bet none of the people here arguing about this, even saw it.

Re: I’m not sexist
 

I don't know where to move this thread. Poli sci? Everything Else?
Should we create a poll on where it should land??

Re: I’m not sexist
 

Hmmmm, I have an idea lol


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