"Roy Williams Rule"

Tobias-Reiper · 05-23-2005, 03:57 PM

... why is it that people want to watch violence, but don't want anyone to get hurt???

saintswhodi · 05-23-2005, 04:32 PM

I think people want to watch a game although it may have potential for injury, and not watch a game knowing beforehand a certain style of play is gonna injure someone. I certainly don't watch on Sundays hoping for anyone to get hurt, but that's just me. If there are tactics injuring players, for me, someone who wants to watch a game and see the stars, and not having stars sidelined with injuries from avoidable plays, banning those tactics is important. For those that are looking for injuries, not important. It's only a difference in what kinda game you are looking to watch. And since mainly only Roy Williams is perfomring this style of tackle, if it is banned who is it really gonna effect? Roy Williams. Who cares about him?

saintswhodi · 05-23-2005, 04:36 PM

I also wanna ask, has anyone seen how Roy performs this tackle? He doesn't simply grab around the collar and drag a guy down, which would be bad enough. Once he grabs them around the collar, he lifts his legs off the ground. Meaning a close to or above 200 something pound player running full speed in one direction now has a two hundred something pound player draped around his neck and collar pulling him to the ground. It's dangerous and should be illegal.

TayTay · 05-23-2005, 08:51 PM

I agree this should be banned. Of course it may still happen, but hopefully making it a penalty will force coaches urge their players in training camp to avoid this at all cost. Putting an emphasis on this will help to minimize the number of occurences in the league. Many of the times this tackle is made is simply b/c the defender takes a bad angle on the ball carrier and tries to amend their problem. Coaches pushing players for better angles will greatly decrease the number of injuries on this type of tackle. While I love seeing contact, the last thing any fan wants is to see a player's career ended because a defender took a bad angle.

lynwood · 05-23-2005, 09:21 PM

I hate seeing someone's career get ended but more careers have been ended due to Turf injuries i'd bet. So the defender takes a bad angle, is he not supposed to tackle the guy at that point? So i won't blame someone for taking a bad angle since the play can turn the opposite way in a heartbeat. And exactly how many injuries have been season ending or career ending from this type of takle? I'm not for cheap shots at all so let me make that clear. I'm not for twisting someones head off or twisting their ankles once the've been tackled. I'm not for hits 25 yards away from the play or blocks from behind. The ref's should use their good judgement(haha) on excessive roughing or unsportsmanlike conduct. I honestly would like to see some good tackles with both arms wrapped around the runner, but that is not always going to happen. This is a physical sport. I don't watch it for the violence. If i wanted to watch a violent sport i'd watch the NBA.

TayTay · 05-23-2005, 09:26 PM

The ref's should use their good judgement

If i wanted to watch a violent sport i'd watch the NBA.

That is hilarious

saintswhodi · 05-23-2005, 10:24 PM

That was funny.

Just to answer your question though lynwood,

Williams unhappy

Cowboys safety Roy Williams dislikes the pending league legislation to ban the horse-collar tackle.

The technique, made infamous last season by Williams, involves pulling down a runner by grabbing the shoulder pads behind the neck.

The competition committee has proposed making the horse-collar tackle a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. It is scheduled to be voted on May 24-25 at spring meetings in Washington, D.C.

"It's an offensive game," Williams said. "They are trying to make it an offensive game. We should just let them score touchdowns. It's a crazy rule."

Williams said he doesn't try to hurt anybody, despite seriously injuring three players with the technique in 2004: Tennessee Titans receiver Tyrone Calico, Baltimore Ravens running back Musa Smith and Philadelphia Eagles receiver Terrell Owens. He said is he is just trying to get players down the best way he can when they get by him.

Williams said he has used the technique since high school, so the proposed change would require an adjustment. He said he hopes it doesn't make him tentative.

"It's something I will have to think about," Williams said. "The league is touchy-touchy. They are taking instincts out of the game."

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/football/11333402.htm

These three players are outside the 2 games Jamal Lewis missed because of the tackle by Roy, and outside of whoever it was that did it to Vick in 2003. I wish I could find the video someone showed of the tackle so you could see how he drags his feet out from under himself. It is dangerous.

lynwood · 05-23-2005, 10:41 PM

Thanks for the info Whodi. Three players in a year by one player is something. I'd like to see some video but i'm sure once they rule they'll release some. I do believe his statement about them wanting to make it an offensive game. Wish our defense could drag someone down by anymeans.

saintswhodi · 05-23-2005, 11:41 PM

I got a couple Lynnwood. On the Musa Smith one, the video doesn't follow all the way through/

http://esc25.midphase.com/~smithj/musa.gif

But on the TO one, you can see where he grabs the collar, and lifts his legs off the ground making TO carry him briefly. That is what is dangerous IMO.

http://esc25.midphase.com/~smithj/TO.gif

ScottyRo · 05-23-2005, 11:50 PM

I still say that before they rule this type of tackle out, they should ban the chop block. The only reason they're on this is because the players injured by it are more high-profile than the in-the-trenches d-lineman that end up losing their knees over it. It's shameful, really, that they'll work so hard to ban this and ignore an equally treacherous technique.

05-23-2005, 08:51 PM	#14
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118	I agree this should be banned. Of course it may still happen, but hopefully making it a penalty will force coaches urge their players in training camp to avoid this at all cost. Putting an emphasis on this will help to minimize the number of occurences in the league. Many of the times this tackle is made is simply b/c the defender takes a bad angle on the ball carrier and tries to amend their problem. Coaches pushing players for better angles will greatly decrease the number of injuries on this type of tackle. While I love seeing contact, the last thing any fan wants is to see a player's career ended because a defender took a bad angle.
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118	http://img188.echo.cx/img188/2215/untitled29jc.jpg

05-23-2005, 09:26 PM	#16
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118	The ref's should use their good judgement If i wanted to watch a violent sport i'd watch the NBA. That is hilarious
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118

05-23-2005, 10:24 PM	#17
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	That was funny. Just to answer your question though lynwood, Williams unhappy Cowboys safety Roy Williams dislikes the pending league legislation to ban the horse-collar tackle. The technique, made infamous last season by Williams, involves pulling down a runner by grabbing the shoulder pads behind the neck. The competition committee has proposed making the horse-collar tackle a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. It is scheduled to be voted on May 24-25 at spring meetings in Washington, D.C. "It's an offensive game," Williams said. "They are trying to make it an offensive game. We should just let them score touchdowns. It's a crazy rule." Williams said he doesn't try to hurt anybody, despite seriously injuring three players with the technique in 2004: Tennessee Titans receiver Tyrone Calico, Baltimore Ravens running back Musa Smith and Philadelphia Eagles receiver Terrell Owens. He said is he is just trying to get players down the best way he can when they get by him. Williams said he has used the technique since high school, so the proposed change would require an adjustment. He said he hopes it doesn't make him tentative. "It's something I will have to think about," Williams said. "The league is touchy-touchy. They are taking instincts out of the game." http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/football/11333402.htm These three players are outside the 2 games Jamal Lewis missed because of the tackle by Roy, and outside of whoever it was that did it to Vick in 2003. I wish I could find the video someone showed of the tackle so you could see how he drags his feet out from under himself. It is dangerous.

05-23-2005, 03:57 PM	#11
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	... why is it that people want to watch violence, but don't want anyone to get hurt???

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05-23-2005, 04:32 PM	#12
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	I think people want to watch a game although it may have potential for injury, and not watch a game knowing beforehand a certain style of play is gonna injure someone. I certainly don't watch on Sundays hoping for anyone to get hurt, but that's just me. If there are tactics injuring players, for me, someone who wants to watch a game and see the stars, and not having stars sidelined with injuries from avoidable plays, banning those tactics is important. For those that are looking for injuries, not important. It's only a difference in what kinda game you are looking to watch. And since mainly only Roy Williams is perfomring this style of tackle, if it is banned who is it really gonna effect? Roy Williams. Who cares about him?

05-23-2005, 04:36 PM	#13
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	I also wanna ask, has anyone seen how Roy performs this tackle? He doesn't simply grab around the collar and drag a guy down, which would be bad enough. Once he grabs them around the collar, he lifts his legs off the ground. Meaning a close to or above 200 something pound player running full speed in one direction now has a two hundred something pound player draped around his neck and collar pulling him to the ground. It's dangerous and should be illegal.

05-23-2005, 09:21 PM	#15
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	I hate seeing someone's career get ended but more careers have been ended due to Turf injuries i'd bet. So the defender takes a bad angle, is he not supposed to tackle the guy at that point? So i won't blame someone for taking a bad angle since the play can turn the opposite way in a heartbeat. And exactly how many injuries have been season ending or career ending from this type of takle? I'm not for cheap shots at all so let me make that clear. I'm not for twisting someones head off or twisting their ankles once the've been tackled. I'm not for hits 25 yards away from the play or blocks from behind. The ref's should use their good judgement(haha) on excessive roughing or unsportsmanlike conduct. I honestly would like to see some good tackles with both arms wrapped around the runner, but that is not always going to happen. This is a physical sport. I don't watch it for the violence. If i wanted to watch a violent sport i'd watch the NBA.

05-23-2005, 10:41 PM	#18
lynwood 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hockley, Tx Posts: 1,515	Thanks for the info Whodi. Three players in a year by one player is something. I'd like to see some video but i'm sure once they rule they'll release some. I do believe his statement about them wanting to make it an offensive game. Wish our defense could drag someone down by anymeans.

05-23-2005, 11:41 PM	#19
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	I got a couple Lynnwood. On the Musa Smith one, the video doesn't follow all the way through/ http://esc25.midphase.com/~smithj/musa.gif But on the TO one, you can see where he grabs the collar, and lifts his legs off the ground making TO carry him briefly. That is what is dangerous IMO. http://esc25.midphase.com/~smithj/TO.gif

05-23-2005, 11:50 PM	#20
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	I still say that before they rule this type of tackle out, they should ban the chop block. The only reason they're on this is because the players injured by it are more high-profile than the in-the-trenches d-lineman that end up losing their knees over it. It's shameful, really, that they'll work so hard to ban this and ignore an equally treacherous technique.