The Big Three will emerge!!

Danno · 05-31-2005, 10:32 AM

I have a hard time with people who come to the site every offseason and tell me how the teams has vastly improved and how this year every thing is going to be differnt. This year 11-5 is realistic. A year later after another 8-8 season they're telling me about how this is the year. Yeah, heard that one before.

And every year those same posters you have a hard time with have realistic analysis as to why this team should be good. If those reasons were invalid, we wouldn't be labeled an underachieving team would we? This team IS improved (maybe not drastically, but I don't recall many who said that), and this team should be around 10-6 or 11-5. Why not discuss it? Oh, and didn't you predict 10-6 this year? Again?

Let the team prove it on the field, b/c ultimately, what you think doesn't matter.

The exact same thing could be said about those who predict 6-10 or 8-8 as well as 10-6. So I guess we shouldn't even speculate about the upcoming season at all? No predictions, no speculations, no anticipation until they prove something on the field? Uh, I think thats one of the main reasons forums exist. Should we stop discussing this team completely until the Sunday after the first game? Thats not much fun is it?

Personally I don't have a problem with anyone who thinks we're gonna be good, if they back it up with good reasoning.
I also don't have a problem with the opposite, IF they back it up with valid reasoning. OK maybe just a little problem, but mostly with the "we suck, because we suck" reasoning, or more specifically a lack valid reasoning.

I think we all agree the coaching is the primary weakness with this team. I personally think its possible for the players to overcome it also.
Especially if the coaches just let these guys play, like they did toward the end of last season. Anyone else notice when we simplified things, we played better? Well my opinion of simplifying things meant less coaching interference and just let the dogs loose. I hope it continues into 2005.

WhoDat · 05-31-2005, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

And every year those same posters you have a hard time with have realistic analysis as to why this team should be good. If those reasons were invalid, we wouldn't be labeled an underachieving team would we? This team IS improved (maybe not drastically, but I don't recall many who said that), and this team should be around 10-6 or 11-5. Why not discuss it? Oh, and didn't you predict 10-6 this year? Again?

No. I said that they are 8-8 until they prove otherwise. I did say 10-6 last year. 8-8 the year before. 9-7 the year before that.

The issue has never been, IMO, whether this team has had the talent to achieve. In fact, I've been blasted on this site by a former poster for suggesting that the Saints are the most talented team in the NFC South, and one of the most talented in the NFC. I went on record as saying that the team needed (and still needs) to upgrade at 3 to 4 key positions, and then they would have the talent to be a Super Bowl contender.

But being talented and being successful are entirely different things. This team has been very talented and unsuccessful for the last 4 years. So, as I said, the argument that this team is talented therefore they will be successful this year doesn't do it for me. They need to show consistency and desire. Things that you can talk about, but can only really be seen on the field.

As for the past 4 years, if you want to say that they team was talented enough to be a playoff team, but bad luck has kept them from taking that last step, go right ahead. I think that completely ignores relevant problems with the team. Thus, we're back to my point. There are problems with this team that don't have to do with talent. The team already had enough talent to make the playoffs. Adding even more is not likely to mean much if other problems aren't addressed. Would you agree that it doesn't make sense to add horsepower to a Ferrari with two flat tires and a blind driver? Maybe I used the wrong terminology. My point is not that the Saints have made bad decisions. I do not dispute that the team seems even more talented... but my point remains that they've seemed even more talented every offseason. I need to see consistency, leadership, desire, and coaching. Those are the key elements that have been missing.

Originally Posted by Danno

Personally I don't have a problem with anyone who thinks we're gonna be good, if they back it up with good reasoning.
I also don't have a problem with the opposite, IF they back it up with valid reasoning. OK maybe just a little problem, but mostly with the "we suck, because we suck" reasoning, or more specifically a lack valid reasoning.

I think we all agree the coaching is the primary weakness with this team. I personally think its possible for the players to overcome it also.
Especially if the coaches just let these guys play, like they did toward the end of last season. Anyone else notice when we simplified things, we played better? Well my opinion of simplifying things meant less coaching interference and just let the dogs loose. I hope it continues into 2005.

I hope so too, but I draw a very clear distinction between what I hope will happen and what I rationally conclude is most likely to happen. Maybe Haslett finally has it right... or maybe this is just another new scheme and another new strategy and more new coaches that will fair just like all the others he has added or changed every other offseason. I don't know. I HOPE you're right Danno. But if I were putting money on the line, I'd bet you're wrong. That's just the way it is. If that makes me pessimistic in your eyes, fine.

Danno · 05-31-2005, 01:10 PM

As for the past 4 years, if you want to say that they team was talented enough to be a playoff team, but bad luck has kept them from taking that last step, go right ahead. I think that completely ignores relevant problems with the team.

LOL, Where did I even suggest this? Old tricks my friend...

You may want to say that Deuce McAllister is the worst RB in the league, But I think thats short-sighted and ignores the problem.

You may want to say Joe Horn has just been fortunate to have a QB lock on him all year, but I think Joe's a quality WR.

You may want to have AB's lovechild, but I think that ignores the real problems with this team.

This is fun, and each sentence is technically correct.

WhoDat · 05-31-2005, 02:45 PM

Wow Danno, you've been taking things awful personally lately. I was using "you" generally, not specifically you, as in Danno, I'm talking to you. Sorry for the confusion. Please continue with your standard over-reaction post. (That you was directed at you

).

Danno · 05-31-2005, 02:47 PM

Well you quoted me, then responded. I thought it was directed at me, since my post was in your quote.

But if anyone's gonna over-react, its gonna be me dammit.

WhoDat · 05-31-2005, 02:58 PM

No argument there.

jnormand · 05-31-2005, 11:52 PM

Yeah, I used the wrong team to compare. I just used the Pats because they were the first team I thought about. You explained my point better than I did Whodi. Thanks bro.

saintswhodi · 06-01-2005, 09:37 AM

Well, I knew what you were saying J, so it's all good. You are still right that all teams have questions. Never disagreed with that. And I wouldn't necessarily say you used the "wrong" team, I just thought your argument would work better if you used a team on a similar level with us. When we win the superbowl next year, you can use the Pats all you want with no disagreement!!!

Whoa, holy crap, when did I learn to channel Danno? j/k :P

AllSaints · 06-01-2005, 08:16 PM

Well know that we dont have a cancer on our offensive line and i think you all no who im talking about. VICTOR RILEY DING DING DING
This guy would give use offsides penaltys probly averaged about 3 a game. sometimes one after another. Well we can all sigh we dont have to this anymore OFFSIDES 67 OFFENCE 5 YARD PENALTY REPLAY 1ST DOWN! and with the fantastic 3 DEUCE BROOKS HORN it think we need to add some more ppl to it. if they can come threw. I am still waiting for Stallworth to come out of his shell. BOO WILLAIMS what happened?Devery im expecting bigs things from you. Karney this guy should be great. our offence probly will be in the top 10 our defence if they play good like we all saw at the end of the season then i think we can pull a top 15 that would probly mean playoffs and playoffs wont be easy this year with panthers falcons and bucs in our division but i think if we start off good this season like 6-0 or something like that lol then we can finish strong and maybe bring this franchise to a SB. But it is a long ways away we still have preseason...

05-31-2005, 10:32 AM	#31
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	I have a hard time with people who come to the site every offseason and tell me how the teams has vastly improved and how this year every thing is going to be differnt. This year 11-5 is realistic. A year later after another 8-8 season they're telling me about how this is the year. Yeah, heard that one before. And every year those same posters you have a hard time with have realistic analysis as to why this team should be good. If those reasons were invalid, we wouldn't be labeled an underachieving team would we? This team IS improved (maybe not drastically, but I don't recall many who said that), and this team should be around 10-6 or 11-5. Why not discuss it? Oh, and didn't you predict 10-6 this year? Again? Let the team prove it on the field, b/c ultimately, what you think doesn't matter. The exact same thing could be said about those who predict 6-10 or 8-8 as well as 10-6. So I guess we shouldn't even speculate about the upcoming season at all? No predictions, no speculations, no anticipation until they prove something on the field? Uh, I think thats one of the main reasons forums exist. Should we stop discussing this team completely until the Sunday after the first game? Thats not much fun is it? Personally I don't have a problem with anyone who thinks we're gonna be good, if they back it up with good reasoning. I also don't have a problem with the opposite, IF they back it up with valid reasoning. OK maybe just a little problem, but mostly with the "we suck, because we suck" reasoning, or more specifically a lack valid reasoning. I think we all agree the coaching is the primary weakness with this team. I personally think its possible for the players to overcome it also. Especially if the coaches just let these guys play, like they did toward the end of last season. Anyone else notice when we simplified things, we played better? Well my opinion of simplifying things meant less coaching interference and just let the dogs loose. I hope it continues into 2005.

05-31-2005, 12:55 PM	#32
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Originally Posted by Danno And every year those same posters you have a hard time with have realistic analysis as to why this team should be good. If those reasons were invalid, we wouldn't be labeled an underachieving team would we? This team IS improved (maybe not drastically, but I don't recall many who said that), and this team should be around 10-6 or 11-5. Why not discuss it? Oh, and didn't you predict 10-6 this year? Again? No. I said that they are 8-8 until they prove otherwise. I did say 10-6 last year. 8-8 the year before. 9-7 the year before that. The issue has never been, IMO, whether this team has had the talent to achieve. In fact, I've been blasted on this site by a former poster for suggesting that the Saints are the most talented team in the NFC South, and one of the most talented in the NFC. I went on record as saying that the team needed (and still needs) to upgrade at 3 to 4 key positions, and then they would have the talent to be a Super Bowl contender. But being talented and being successful are entirely different things. This team has been very talented and unsuccessful for the last 4 years. So, as I said, the argument that this team is talented therefore they will be successful this year doesn't do it for me. They need to show consistency and desire. Things that you can talk about, but can only really be seen on the field. As for the past 4 years, if you want to say that they team was talented enough to be a playoff team, but bad luck has kept them from taking that last step, go right ahead. I think that completely ignores relevant problems with the team. Thus, we're back to my point. There are problems with this team that don't have to do with talent. The team already had enough talent to make the playoffs. Adding even more is not likely to mean much if other problems aren't addressed. Would you agree that it doesn't make sense to add horsepower to a Ferrari with two flat tires and a blind driver? Maybe I used the wrong terminology. My point is not that the Saints have made bad decisions. I do not dispute that the team seems even more talented... but my point remains that they've seemed even more talented every offseason. I need to see consistency, leadership, desire, and coaching. Those are the key elements that have been missing. Originally Posted by Danno Personally I don't have a problem with anyone who thinks we're gonna be good, if they back it up with good reasoning. I also don't have a problem with the opposite, IF they back it up with valid reasoning. OK maybe just a little problem, but mostly with the "we suck, because we suck" reasoning, or more specifically a lack valid reasoning. I think we all agree the coaching is the primary weakness with this team. I personally think its possible for the players to overcome it also. Especially if the coaches just let these guys play, like they did toward the end of last season. Anyone else notice when we simplified things, we played better? Well my opinion of simplifying things meant less coaching interference and just let the dogs loose. I hope it continues into 2005. I hope so too, but I draw a very clear distinction between what I hope will happen and what I rationally conclude is most likely to happen. Maybe Haslett finally has it right... or maybe this is just another new scheme and another new strategy and more new coaches that will fair just like all the others he has added or changed every other offseason. I don't know. I HOPE you're right Danno. But if I were putting money on the line, I'd bet you're wrong. That's just the way it is. If that makes me pessimistic in your eyes, fine.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

05-31-2005, 02:45 PM	#34
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Wow Danno, you've been taking things awful personally lately. I was using "you" generally, not specifically you, as in Danno, I'm talking to you. Sorry for the confusion. Please continue with your standard over-reaction post. (That you was directed at you ).
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

05-31-2005, 02:58 PM	#36
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	No argument there.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

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05-31-2005, 01:10 PM	#33
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	As for the past 4 years, if you want to say that they team was talented enough to be a playoff team, but bad luck has kept them from taking that last step, go right ahead. I think that completely ignores relevant problems with the team. LOL, Where did I even suggest this? Old tricks my friend... You may want to say that Deuce McAllister is the worst RB in the league, But I think thats short-sighted and ignores the problem. You may want to say Joe Horn has just been fortunate to have a QB lock on him all year, but I think Joe's a quality WR. You may want to have AB's lovechild, but I think that ignores the real problems with this team. This is fun, and each sentence is technically correct.

05-31-2005, 02:47 PM	#35
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Well you quoted me, then responded. I thought it was directed at me, since my post was in your quote. But if anyone's gonna over-react, its gonna be me dammit.

05-31-2005, 11:52 PM	#37
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,662	Yeah, I used the wrong team to compare. I just used the Pats because they were the first team I thought about. You explained my point better than I did Whodi. Thanks bro.

06-01-2005, 09:37 AM	#38
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Well, I knew what you were saying J, so it's all good. You are still right that all teams have questions. Never disagreed with that. And I wouldn't necessarily say you used the "wrong" team, I just thought your argument would work better if you used a team on a similar level with us. When we win the superbowl next year, you can use the Pats all you want with no disagreement!!! Whoa, holy crap, when did I learn to channel Danno? j/k :P

06-01-2005, 08:16 PM	#39
AllSaints Breakin Records Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Deville, Louisiana Posts: 2,167	Well know that we dont have a cancer on our offensive line and i think you all no who im talking about. VICTOR RILEY DING DING DING This guy would give use offsides penaltys probly averaged about 3 a game. sometimes one after another. Well we can all sigh we dont have to this anymore OFFSIDES 67 OFFENCE 5 YARD PENALTY REPLAY 1ST DOWN! and with the fantastic 3 DEUCE BROOKS HORN it think we need to add some more ppl to it. if they can come threw. I am still waiting for Stallworth to come out of his shell. BOO WILLAIMS what happened?Devery im expecting bigs things from you. Karney this guy should be great. our offence probly will be in the top 10 our defence if they play good like we all saw at the end of the season then i think we can pull a top 15 that would probly mean playoffs and playoffs wont be easy this year with panthers falcons and bucs in our division but i think if we start off good this season like 6-0 or something like that lol then we can finish strong and maybe bring this franchise to a SB. But it is a long ways away we still have preseason...