Brooks

along · 07-08-2005, 04:37 PM

I would love to see AB play the way he is
and have our Defense play like a top 5 Defense
and then see what y'all have to say about AB!

8)

BlackandBlue · 07-08-2005, 04:46 PM

have our Defense play like a top 5 Defense

12 years since that has happened, I don't expect to see it anytime in the near future.

trimolo · 07-08-2005, 05:16 PM

Why can't the coaches find a way to get the most out of our talent on O and D....The patriots have an average QB(honestly), an above average RB, a mediocre receiving core, and a defense full of guys who couldn't start on other teams...Coaching and Front office counts....We should win the Bowl every 3 years..

Saintsfan4ever · 07-09-2005, 12:21 AM

You know, there`s an old wise saying that reads " If you keep doing what you`ve been doing, then your going to keep getting what you`ve been getting." (think about it)
AB has stats and lots of ability, no arguement there, but what he does NOT have is that "eye-of-the-tiger", "I-refuse-to-lose" and "get-r-done" personality to take this team where we wanta go.
We`re NOT going to see anything from AB that we haven`t already seen. If like what you`ve seen from AB thus far......great. If you don`t, then your probably like me an not very optimistic about post season chances in 2005.

Have a nice day.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 07-09-2005, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by along

I would love to see AB play the way he is
and have our Defense play like a top 5 Defense
and then see what y'all have to say about AB!

8)

It doesn't need to be that one sided.

The goal for the defense this year is to get into the top half of the league in scoring defense.

The goal for the offense should be simple: average a TD per quarter. That's 448 points for a season.

Brooks needs to have personal bests in every category. He also needs to keep his trap shut. It's OK to think that you're God's gift to Qbing. Just don't tell anyone about it.

SFIAH

SaintFanInATLHELL · 07-09-2005, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Saintsfan4ever

You know, there`s an old wise saying that reads " If you keep doing what you`ve been doing, then your going to keep getting what you`ve been getting." (think about it)
AB has stats and lots of ability, no arguement there, but what he does NOT have is that "eye-of-the-tiger", "I-refuse-to-lose" and "get-r-done" personality to take this team where we wanta go.
We`re NOT going to see anything from AB that we haven`t already seen. If like what you`ve seen from AB thus far......great. If you don`t, then your probably like me an not very optimistic about post season chances in 2005.

Have a nice day.

I really think that it's cliche' to think that it's the "Rocky" attitude that wins championships. It's clear that players who have had that fire have not been successful, while players/teams/coaches who are cerebral have found success.

This is one place where I agree with Whodi about Brooks. It doesn't really matter if he has the fire in the belly. It matters that he completes 63% of his passes (which he has never done in his career) and that he doesn't turn the ball over.

It's his play that needs to improve.

SFIAH

along · 07-09-2005, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Saintsfan4ever

You know, there`s an old wise saying that reads " If you keep doing what you`ve been doing, then your going to keep getting what you`ve been getting." (think about it)

Have a nice day.

SO TRUE!!!

Our Defense has been at the bottom for
the last 4 years and we keep getting what
you`ve been getting.

Aaron Brooks and our Offense has putting up
the numbers but our Defense just been killing
us!!!

8)

JKool · 07-09-2005, 12:41 PM

RDOX, I think that is an interesting point. If W/L belong to a team, and some player doesn't consider himself part of the team (or makes himself not a part of the team), then perhaps there is room for additional or different criticism of that player. I will think on that - a good point, I believe.

Who, again, terrific points. I'll think more on it, but here is my knee-jerk reaction:

1. I don't know how to assess the 'playing good enough to win' example. I think that it is interesting, but there is something funny going on there that I just can't put my finger on. I'll try to get back to you on that in the next day or so.

2. In your 'QB screws the pooch example', I'm inclined to say that in a vaccuum it is easy to assign blame. I guess blame assignments/distributions need to be orgainic - given what the game is like it could be adjusted. Did one of those picks bounce off a WR's hands? Etc. Perhaps, you are right in saying that no bounds can be set on a per game basis (i.e. my caping blame at the blame per unit is overly a priori and should be dropped because it can be violated). I like this point. I'll think about it too. What do you say about my 'over time' point?

3. I guess, the main idea here behind the blame distribution is that it is difficult to assign high blame to an individual player in a team sport - especially one where there are so many other factors - e.g. the other players on the team, the coaching, the other team, etc. Roughly, each player should take a level of blame that corresponds to his performance and the demands on his position RELATIVE to the fact that he depends on hundreds of other things each play.

4. I agree that mistakes occur all the time in a game. I thought I addressed that earlier. It seems to me that mistakes come in degree. A four step drop instead of 5 isn't a big problem, unless an interior lineman misses a block. Missing a backside block isn't so bad, unless the RB needs to cut back. And so on. I guess, I'm just not seeing why it matters - we agree that it is big mistakes (and sometimes the timing of them) that will increase blame.

along, welcome to the board!

along · 07-09-2005, 01:13 PM

[quote="JKool"]

along, welcome to the board![/

quote]

Think you JKool!!!

WhoDat · 07-09-2005, 05:15 PM

Kool,

I guess I just see it as an easier task then you. It seems to me in breaking down a game tape you can point to tens if not hundreds of really minor mistakes (we agree on this, I know), but there are always a few key plays (again, we seem to agree). The screw ups on those plays tend to be, IMO, where the majority of the blame/credit will lie.

As for assessing an individual player - isn't that what coaches and scouts do every day? Watch film and make decisions about a certain players' ability and production - then decide who to start, who to cut, what side of the line to run behind if you need 1 yard on a key 4th down, etc.

I mean, can you not say that the interior d-line was a big reason for the Saints poor run defense last year? By default, does that not mean that the DTs deserve much of the blame for the bad run defense? Didn't the secondary improve when McKenzie join the team and get comfortable? Doesn't he then deserve a lot of credit? It seems to me like a fairly simple matter is being tremendously overcomplicated. It seems to me that you know it when you see it the vast majority of the time.

07-08-2005, 04:37 PM	#51
along 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 190	I would love to see AB play the way he is and have our Defense play like a top 5 Defense and then see what y'all have to say about AB! 8)
along 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 190

07-09-2005, 08:13 AM	#55
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Originally Posted by along I would love to see AB play the way he is and have our Defense play like a top 5 Defense and then see what y'all have to say about AB! 8) It doesn't need to be that one sided. The goal for the defense this year is to get into the top half of the league in scoring defense. The goal for the offense should be simple: average a TD per quarter. That's 448 points for a season. Brooks needs to have personal bests in every category. He also needs to keep his trap shut. It's OK to think that you're God's gift to Qbing. Just don't tell anyone about it. SFIAH

07-09-2005, 08:27 AM	#56
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Originally Posted by Saintsfan4ever You know, there`s an old wise saying that reads " If you keep doing what you`ve been doing, then your going to keep getting what you`ve been getting." (think about it) AB has stats and lots of ability, no arguement there, but what he does NOT have is that "eye-of-the-tiger", "I-refuse-to-lose" and "get-r-done" personality to take this team where we wanta go. We`re NOT going to see anything from AB that we haven`t already seen. If like what you`ve seen from AB thus far......great. If you don`t, then your probably like me an not very optimistic about post season chances in 2005. Have a nice day. I really think that it's cliche' to think that it's the "Rocky" attitude that wins championships. It's clear that players who have had that fire have not been successful, while players/teams/coaches who are cerebral have found success. This is one place where I agree with Whodi about Brooks. It doesn't really matter if he has the fire in the belly. It matters that he completes 63% of his passes (which he has never done in his career) and that he doesn't turn the ball over. It's his play that needs to improve. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

07-09-2005, 08:48 AM	#57
along 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 190	Originally Posted by Saintsfan4ever You know, there`s an old wise saying that reads " If you keep doing what you`ve been doing, then your going to keep getting what you`ve been getting." (think about it) Have a nice day. SO TRUE!!! Our Defense has been at the bottom for the last 4 years and we keep getting what you`ve been getting. Aaron Brooks and our Offense has putting up the numbers but our Defense just been killing us!!! 8)
along 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 190

07-09-2005, 12:41 PM	#58
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	RDOX, I think that is an interesting point. If W/L belong to a team, and some player doesn't consider himself part of the team (or makes himself not a part of the team), then perhaps there is room for additional or different criticism of that player. I will think on that - a good point, I believe. Who, again, terrific points. I'll think more on it, but here is my knee-jerk reaction: 1. I don't know how to assess the 'playing good enough to win' example. I think that it is interesting, but there is something funny going on there that I just can't put my finger on. I'll try to get back to you on that in the next day or so. 2. In your 'QB screws the pooch example', I'm inclined to say that in a vaccuum it is easy to assign blame. I guess blame assignments/distributions need to be orgainic - given what the game is like it could be adjusted. Did one of those picks bounce off a WR's hands? Etc. Perhaps, you are right in saying that no bounds can be set on a per game basis (i.e. my caping blame at the blame per unit is overly a priori and should be dropped because it can be violated). I like this point. I'll think about it too. What do you say about my 'over time' point? 3. I guess, the main idea here behind the blame distribution is that it is difficult to assign high blame to an individual player in a team sport - especially one where there are so many other factors - e.g. the other players on the team, the coaching, the other team, etc. Roughly, each player should take a level of blame that corresponds to his performance and the demands on his position RELATIVE to the fact that he depends on hundreds of other things each play. 4. I agree that mistakes occur all the time in a game. I thought I addressed that earlier. It seems to me that mistakes come in degree. A four step drop instead of 5 isn't a big problem, unless an interior lineman misses a block. Missing a backside block isn't so bad, unless the RB needs to cut back. And so on. I guess, I'm just not seeing why it matters - we agree that it is big mistakes (and sometimes the timing of them) that will increase blame. along, welcome to the board!
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

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07-08-2005, 04:46 PM	#52
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	have our Defense play like a top 5 Defense 12 years since that has happened, I don't expect to see it anytime in the near future.

07-08-2005, 05:16 PM	#53
trimolo Rookie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 16	Why can't the coaches find a way to get the most out of our talent on O and D....The patriots have an average QB(honestly), an above average RB, a mediocre receiving core, and a defense full of guys who couldn't start on other teams...Coaching and Front office counts....We should win the Bowl every 3 years..

07-09-2005, 12:21 AM	#54
Saintsfan4ever 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Moss Point, MS Posts: 612 Blog Entries: 1	You know, there`s an old wise saying that reads " If you keep doing what you`ve been doing, then your going to keep getting what you`ve been getting." (think about it) AB has stats and lots of ability, no arguement there, but what he does NOT have is that "eye-of-the-tiger", "I-refuse-to-lose" and "get-r-done" personality to take this team where we wanta go. We`re NOT going to see anything from AB that we haven`t already seen. If like what you`ve seen from AB thus far......great. If you don`t, then your probably like me an not very optimistic about post season chances in 2005. Have a nice day.

07-09-2005, 01:13 PM	#59
along 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 190	[quote="JKool"] along, welcome to the board![/ quote] Think you JKool!!!
along 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 190

07-09-2005, 05:15 PM	#60
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Kool, I guess I just see it as an easier task then you. It seems to me in breaking down a game tape you can point to tens if not hundreds of really minor mistakes (we agree on this, I know), but there are always a few key plays (again, we seem to agree). The screw ups on those plays tend to be, IMO, where the majority of the blame/credit will lie. As for assessing an individual player - isn't that what coaches and scouts do every day? Watch film and make decisions about a certain players' ability and production - then decide who to start, who to cut, what side of the line to run behind if you need 1 yard on a key 4th down, etc. I mean, can you not say that the interior d-line was a big reason for the Saints poor run defense last year? By default, does that not mean that the DTs deserve much of the blame for the bad run defense? Didn't the secondary improve when McKenzie join the team and get comfortable? Doesn't he then deserve a lot of credit? It seems to me like a fairly simple matter is being tremendously overcomplicated. It seems to me that you know it when you see it the vast majority of the time.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"