Head Trauma

lee909 · 07-14-2019, 09:31 AM

Wasn't sure the best place to put this.

Just wondering if anyone has had second thoughts of letting their children/grandchildren play football.

I was listening to a multipart podcast on the Aaron Hernandez case. And while they did not make excuses for him being a murderer or try to blame it just on the injuries they did cover that his brain was scanned after he died and they found that he was level 3 of 4 on the scale they use. And this was a kid that had officially on had 2 concussions and was out of the game at 23.

Im not saying the game should be banned or anything as its personal choice at the end of the day. Just wondering how things are in the states with people pushing their kids into other sports?, stopping them playing tackle football etc.

Obviously there are lots of good things from playing sports and football.

jeanpierre · 07-14-2019, 10:27 AM

There is more variety in organized sports so that's another reason you're seeing more sports at the HS level despite always threatened budget cuts...

Talking with my parents' friends, they kept their kids, my friends, out of football because of their diminutive size - so differing reasons from head trauma, but still had cautious parents over thirty years ago...

Also one of the biggest changes I've seen in the last five to ten years is that local coaching (e.g. youth, bantam, high school) has greatly improved...

When I was coming along we didn't get coached on "stunts" until high school; now I see bantam leagues mimicking pro formations and rushes...

In addition, it's still needs great improvement, but I am starting to see a return to true-form tackling which is key to minimizing the head traumas you reference...

SmashMouth · 07-14-2019, 10:35 AM

I grew up with rugby, among other "European" sports, in France. I still remember some tough tackling. But the lack of body protection forces them to teach you how to properly tackle. I think the body armor of today gives players a false sense of invincibility.

Beastmode · 07-14-2019, 11:04 AM

The NFL does a lot of R&D on equipment. That's a big part of it but they never address excessive BMI. There are some linemen that could pass a military BMI test but many could not. Addressing that would bring the injuries down more IMO.

Rugby Saint II · 07-14-2019, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

I grew up with rugby, among other "European" sports, in France. I still remember some tough tackling. But the lack of body protection forces them to teach you how to properly tackle. I think the body armor of today gives players a false sense of invincibility.

You nailed it Smash! Rugby is a contact sport just like football. We teach proper tackling techniques and don't use our body as a weapon. Those football pads make you feel invincible but you're not.

Personally, I think todays tackling techniques in football is pure crap. You should tackle a man with your shoulders not your head. Seriously, who came up with the terrible idea of leading with your helmet to make a tackle? Sure. You pull your head down to you shoulder pads but you are still leading with your head, which by the way, holds your brain!

I had multiple concussions when I first started playing rugby. But when I learned how to tackle I haven't had one since.

CHA_CHING · 07-14-2019, 01:22 PM

I suffered 2 concussions between 2013-2015. Both were complete accidents, but the second one left me with a bit of brain damage that I still deal with frequently to this day. My wife could explain it better since she has had to bear witness to me over the years and deal with me.

From my personal experience, I cannot imagine what former and current players go through from CTE.

We've all seen games with obvious concussed players and how they just look completely out of it. Brett Favre had a playoff game some time in the mid 2000's where I believe he was concussed very early and had a horrible game. It was the wildcard game vs Minnesota from 2004 or 2005. He took some big hits early and was just not the same after that, leading to throwing 4 or 5 interceptions.

One former player's problems with head trauma that really disturbed me on a personal level was Junior Seau. Anyone who watched him through his career knows he was one of the best inside LBs of his era and of all time. His suicide is still haunting to this day.

CHA_CHING · 07-14-2019, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

I grew up with rugby, among other "European" sports, in France. I still remember some tough tackling. But the lack of body protection forces them to teach you how to properly tackle. I think the body armor of today gives players a false sense of invincibility.

100% agree with this.

In the old eras there were players like Czonka and Earl Campbell that would just plow through players like they were a battering ram.

jeanpierre · 07-14-2019, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

I grew up with rugby, among other "European" sports, in France. I still remember some tough tackling. But the lack of body protection forces them to teach you how to properly tackle. I think the body armor of today gives players a false sense of invincibility.

And there it is...

We'd played tackle football in open lots in the neighborhood (acreage that hadn't had homes built, yet, for those not familiar with American Suburbia)...

No helmet, no pads, and some of us really hit, but no one ever speared (led with the hed)...

Sure, some guys got the wind knocked out of them, but everyone knew how to tackle because of the very thing Smash refers...

lee909 · 07-14-2019, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

And there it is...

We'd played tackle football in open lots in the neighborhood (acreage that hadn't had homes built, yet, for those not familiar with American Suburbia)...

No helmet, no pads, and some of us really hit, but no one ever speared (led with the hed)...

Sure, some guys got the wind knocked out of them, but everyone knew how to tackle because of the very thing Smash refers...

Good points on correct tackling but from what the science reports its not really the tackling that causing CTE issues. Obviously you get some when a receiver is hit and flipped but most CTE seems to happen on the line. The reports I saw are saying that the order of most damage is

Linemen, both sides of the ball
Linebackers/fullbacks
Running backs
Receivers

Are we at a point when the linemen are just to big and to fast to play in the way they did 20/30 years ago.

Long term I think it really needs looking at.
College level especially where players are not paid and then thrown aside after they no longer play. That's why I brought the Hernandez case up, because he was obviously brain damage before he went pro.

Im a fan of football and combat sports but increasingly finding that effects of the sports for my pleasure are not sitting correctly with me. Once someone is a adult it's there choice and all good, I just wonder more and more how much damage is being done to children

jeanpierre · 07-14-2019, 04:40 PM

You're referring to head slaps, where linemen are slapping each other because they're wearing helmets? Yeah, yet another reason where protective gear is not so protective...

But the worse collisions I've seen are when the back seven/eight are dialing up a receiver rather than making a sound tackle...

07-14-2019, 09:31 AM	#1
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,803 Blog Entries: 1	Head Trauma Wasn't sure the best place to put this. Just wondering if anyone has had second thoughts of letting their children/grandchildren play football. I was listening to a multipart podcast on the Aaron Hernandez case. And while they did not make excuses for him being a murderer or try to blame it just on the injuries they did cover that his brain was scanned after he died and they found that he was level 3 of 4 on the scale they use. And this was a kid that had officially on had 2 concussions and was out of the game at 23. Im not saying the game should be banned or anything as its personal choice at the end of the day. Just wondering how things are in the states with people pushing their kids into other sports?, stopping them playing tackle football etc. Obviously there are lots of good things from playing sports and football.
	"Two receivers to the left, Garcon to the right. Manning in the shotgun, puts Collie in motion. Looks in his direction...it's picked off! It's picked off! It's Tracy Porter again! He's runnin' free! He's gonna go all the way!

07-14-2019, 10:27 AM	#2
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Head Trauma There is more variety in organized sports so that's another reason you're seeing more sports at the HS level despite always threatened budget cuts... Talking with my parents' friends, they kept their kids, my friends, out of football because of their diminutive size - so differing reasons from head trauma, but still had cautious parents over thirty years ago... Also one of the biggest changes I've seen in the last five to ten years is that local coaching (e.g. youth, bantam, high school) has greatly improved... When I was coming along we didn't get coached on "stunts" until high school; now I see bantam leagues mimicking pro formations and rushes... In addition, it's still needs great improvement, but I am starting to see a return to true-form tackling which is key to minimizing the head traumas you reference... SmashMouth and lee909 like this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

07-14-2019, 10:35 AM	#3
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,125 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Head Trauma I grew up with rugby, among other "European" sports, in France. I still remember some tough tackling. But the lack of body protection forces them to teach you how to properly tackle. I think the body armor of today gives players a false sense of invincibility. Crusader, woody, jeanpierre and 4 others like this.

07-14-2019, 11:04 AM	#4
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126	Re: Head Trauma The NFL does a lot of R&D on equipment. That's a big part of it but they never address excessive BMI. There are some linemen that could pass a military BMI test but many could not. Addressing that would bring the injuries down more IMO. lee909 and CHA_CHING like this.
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126

07-14-2019, 11:42 AM	#5
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,052	Re: Head Trauma Originally Posted by SmashMouth I grew up with rugby, among other "European" sports, in France. I still remember some tough tackling. But the lack of body protection forces them to teach you how to properly tackle. I think the body armor of today gives players a false sense of invincibility. You nailed it Smash! Rugby is a contact sport just like football. We teach proper tackling techniques and don't use our body as a weapon. Those football pads make you feel invincible but you're not. Personally, I think todays tackling techniques in football is pure crap. You should tackle a man with your shoulders not your head. Seriously, who came up with the terrible idea of leading with your helmet to make a tackle? Sure. You pull your head down to you shoulder pads but you are still leading with your head, which by the way, holds your brain! I had multiple concussions when I first started playing rugby. But when I learned how to tackle I haven't had one since. SmashMouth, woody and lee909 like this.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

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07-14-2019, 01:22 PM	#6
CHA_CHING 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 1,159	Re: Head Trauma I suffered 2 concussions between 2013-2015. Both were complete accidents, but the second one left me with a bit of brain damage that I still deal with frequently to this day. My wife could explain it better since she has had to bear witness to me over the years and deal with me. From my personal experience, I cannot imagine what former and current players go through from CTE. We've all seen games with obvious concussed players and how they just look completely out of it. Brett Favre had a playoff game some time in the mid 2000's where I believe he was concussed very early and had a horrible game. It was the wildcard game vs Minnesota from 2004 or 2005. He took some big hits early and was just not the same after that, leading to throwing 4 or 5 interceptions. One former player's problems with head trauma that really disturbed me on a personal level was Junior Seau. Anyone who watched him through his career knows he was one of the best inside LBs of his era and of all time. His suicide is still haunting to this day. Rugby Saint II likes this.

07-14-2019, 01:24 PM	#7
CHA_CHING 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 1,159	Re: Head Trauma Originally Posted by SmashMouth I grew up with rugby, among other "European" sports, in France. I still remember some tough tackling. But the lack of body protection forces them to teach you how to properly tackle. I think the body armor of today gives players a false sense of invincibility. 100% agree with this. In the old eras there were players like Czonka and Earl Campbell that would just plow through players like they were a battering ram. SmashMouth likes this.

07-14-2019, 02:32 PM	#8
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Head Trauma Originally Posted by SmashMouth I grew up with rugby, among other "European" sports, in France. I still remember some tough tackling. But the lack of body protection forces them to teach you how to properly tackle. I think the body armor of today gives players a false sense of invincibility. And there it is... We'd played tackle football in open lots in the neighborhood (acreage that hadn't had homes built, yet, for those not familiar with American Suburbia)... No helmet, no pads, and some of us really hit, but no one ever speared (led with the hed)... Sure, some guys got the wind knocked out of them, but everyone knew how to tackle because of the very thing Smash refers... SmashMouth likes this.

07-14-2019, 04:20 PM	#9
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,803 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Head Trauma Originally Posted by jeanpierre And there it is... We'd played tackle football in open lots in the neighborhood (acreage that hadn't had homes built, yet, for those not familiar with American Suburbia)... No helmet, no pads, and some of us really hit, but no one ever speared (led with the hed)... Sure, some guys got the wind knocked out of them, but everyone knew how to tackle because of the very thing Smash refers... Good points on correct tackling but from what the science reports its not really the tackling that causing CTE issues. Obviously you get some when a receiver is hit and flipped but most CTE seems to happen on the line. The reports I saw are saying that the order of most damage is Linemen, both sides of the ball Linebackers/fullbacks Running backs Receivers Are we at a point when the linemen are just to big and to fast to play in the way they did 20/30 years ago. Long term I think it really needs looking at. College level especially where players are not paid and then thrown aside after they no longer play. That's why I brought the Hernandez case up, because he was obviously brain damage before he went pro. Im a fan of football and combat sports but increasingly finding that effects of the sports for my pleasure are not sitting correctly with me. Once someone is a adult it's there choice and all good, I just wonder more and more how much damage is being done to children
	"Two receivers to the left, Garcon to the right. Manning in the shotgun, puts Collie in motion. Looks in his direction...it's picked off! It's picked off! It's Tracy Porter again! He's runnin' free! He's gonna go all the way!

07-14-2019, 04:40 PM	#10
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Head Trauma You're referring to head slaps, where linemen are slapping each other because they're wearing helmets? Yeah, yet another reason where protective gear is not so protective... But the worse collisions I've seen are when the back seven/eight are dialing up a receiver rather than making a sound tackle...

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