Interesting facts about last year's defense.

saintz08 · 07-07-2005, 01:00 AM

saintswhodi

I ran this earlier on the "Brooks" Thread , you might have some fun with it ....

Time of Possession is always an interesting stat , it creates a couple of variables . For instance , ask " Where did the Saints defense rank in 2004 ?? " and 9 out of 10 posters would say dead last . Total Yards per game allowed is a bad way to check a defense , because it does not factor the offense pulling up lame .

Consider yards per play as an average , it factors the yards allowed by the amount of time on the field .

The 5 worst N.F.L. defenses 2004
5. Minnesota
4. Indianapolis
3. Oakland
2. Kansas City
1. New Orleans

Yards Per Play Factor , and the order changes .

5. Green Bay with 5.7 yards per play - 967 plays
4. Minnesota with 5.8 yards per play - 1018 plays
3. New Orleans with 5.8 yards per play - 1067 plays
2. Tennessee with 5.9 yards per play - 977 plays
1. Kansas City with 6.3 yards per play - 960 plays

saintswhodi · 07-07-2005, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by saintz08

saintswhodi

I ran this earlier on the "Brooks" Thread , you might have some fun with it ....

Time of Possession is always an interesting stat , it creates a couple of variables . For instance , ask " Where did the Saints defense rank in 2004 ?? " and 9 out of 10 posters would say dead last . Total Yards per game allowed is a bad way to check a defense , because it does not factor the offense pulling up lame .

Consider yards per play as an average , it factors the yards allowed by the amount of time on the field .

The 5 worst N.F.L. defenses 2004
5. Minnesota
4. Indianapolis
3. Oakland
2. Kansas City
1. New Orleans

Yards Per Play Factor , and the order changes .

5. Green Bay with 5.7 yards per play - 967 plays
4. Minnesota with 5.8 yards per play - 1018 plays
3. New Orleans with 5.8 yards per play - 1067 plays
2. Tennessee with 5.9 yards per play - 977 plays
1. Kansas City with 6.3 yards per play - 960 plays

I saw it 08. And your TOP post. And your Brooks first half passer ratings posts. Kinda what motivated me to take a look.

WhoDat · 07-07-2005, 11:21 AM

all i no is we were last in defence and .500 8-8 THATS ALL THAT MATTERS IS THE WINS !!

Man! Really? Why didn't we sign more Wins this offseason? That sucks.

PS - what's defence? Is that like the thing you paint? De fence. B/c I thought we were last in defense.

saintfan · 07-07-2005, 11:21 AM

"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢ organization." - Eric Narcisse

Our defense sucked unless I missed something. More than anything else we just couldn't stop the run. We couldn't stop the run early in the game when we weren't tired, and we couldn't stop the run late in the game when we were.

saintswhodi · 07-07-2005, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢ organization." - Eric Narcisse

Our defense sucked unless I missed something. More than anything else we just couldn't stop the run. We couldn't stop the run early in the game when we weren't tired, and we couldn't stop the run late in the game when we were.

Yeah, that 29th ranked TOP by the offense wouldn't make a defense tired or anything. We couldn't score or get a first down early either. Even when the defense gave us THREE turnovers in the first haf(Seattle), we could only manage 7 points for the entire game and about 60 total rushing.

spkb25 · 07-07-2005, 07:15 PM

improving ball control will always help the d. there aren't as many chances for the other teams o. i don't think you can argue at all that our d was just terrible last year for the first 12 games. i don't think that it helped that we didnt score in the first quarter last year for the most part. basically i thought we played really well last year the final 4 games. mainly though more then anything and tell me if this sounds new or not, we need to stop the run better this year. you may have heard something like that the last few years. all i know is when a team runs, in the first quarter of a preseason game this year, for like 100 yards , i am not going to listen to has about the two runs that distorted the stats. if anyone at all remembers that from last year. according to has at some points last year we were only letting up 3.7 yards per caryy. well mind you that was because he took out the 48 yard run and the 38 yarder. somehow they didnt count.

along · 07-10-2005, 04:47 PM

We can come up with all the facts we want
about our Defense...but the bottom line is...our
Defense was last in everything last year and
if the Defense don't do a lot better then that
this year ya can look for the same thing.
A 8-8 SEASON AND NO PLAYOFF!

saintswhodi · 07-10-2005, 08:41 PM

Please once and for all, will the knuckleheads please stop making excuses for why the defense sucks!

Wow, namecalling kinda early in your tenure here huh? Can you explain to me that an offense that is 29th in time of possession, committs frequent red zone turnovers, puts the defense in untenable positions due to regular turnovers, and could not score the VAST majority of the year in the first quarter, and barely in the first half, HELPED the defense?

And then explain to me how in the first game of the year, the defense gives the offense THREE turnovers in the FIRST HALF, yet for the game the offense manages only SEVEN points. Explain to me how the defense held Seattle(A PLAYOFF TEAM AND DIVISION WINNER OF THE NFC WEST) to 14 points deep into the secodn half, only to see the OFFENSE throw an INT that gave Seattle the ball in their own red zone, and sealed the game. Explain how that HELPED the defense to this knucklehead.

Ravens, Carolina, Buc's, NewEngland(Brady's first year), Giants, Falcons (NFC Championship last year) they can't even pass the ball.

Ravens were one of the top rushing teams in the league, so was the Falcons last year. For the Bucs, Brad Johnson threw for over 3000 yards, 22Tds and 6 INTs in only 13 games. Brady his first year as the starter, their first Superbowl, threw for 2800 yards and 18 TDs. I think they got past the 50 once or twice. Kerry Collins and the Giants had a pretty damn good offense the year they went to the Superbowl. HE had 3600 yards passing and 22 Tds that year. Seems like a decent offense. And that's not even mentioning the rushing. These offenses were at least efficient, ours wasn't.

saintswhodi · 07-11-2005, 10:14 AM

Hmm, I see how my statement:

These offenses were at least efficient, ours wasn't.

could be taken as me saying they were balanced. I don't know how, but somehow that's what you got. I'll explain though. When you lead the league in rushing, even if that's all your offense does well, you eat clock, keep the opposing team's offense off the field, keep your defense rested and gives them time to make adjustments. That should be obvious. We were 27th in rushing. That was an OFFENSIVE problem, not a Brooks problem or any other single player. I mainly blame McCarthy for changing the offense, but that's here not there. Now please, find the word balance in anything I said here or in my previous post. I never said it. I said EFFICIENT.

And I don't pay as much attention to stats, because they are so misleading. They'll have your brain missing things you shouldn't. Which is your problem.

Then how do you defend Aaron Brooks? If there wasn't the stats for his supporters to stand on(yards and Tds), he would have nothing at all. Man, you are doing yourself in here.

Now how good was Brad Johnson since this was going on?

Ask the people who voted him in the pro bowl that year. Oh my, those would be the fans. I guess the millions of people who voted him into the pro bowl lose their cedibility too huh? I think we only have to worry about that with one person here.

Kerry Collins? are you seriously trying to say he was good that year are any year?

I don't know. Do you consider 22 Tds, 13 INts, an 83.1 rating an 3600 yards good? With Amani Toomer as your number one option?

And to drive the point home, look at the success our Franchise had when we had the great defenses, and compare to now. We didn't have any balanced team, Hebert would throw a INT at any unforeseen chance, we couldn't run the ball Mora's entire tenure...And had horrible special-teams except when we had Mel Gray. Your sense of balance is very lop-sided.

Success as in NEVER winning a playoff game? I remember years when we would battle the Eagles for the number one D in the league all year, what did it get us? any playoff wins? Out of the first round? If the defense is the almighty hammer you want it to be, then shouldn't we have been in the NFC champ game every year with the Eagles with the defenses we had. We weren't. Not until we got a semblance of an offense to go with a good defense did we win a playoff game.

saintswhodi · 07-11-2005, 10:46 AM

Derrick Brooks was the Buc's leading scorer up until week 8 of their superbowl season, I didn't get that by stat...I watched the games!

You may watch the games, but you don't remember them well. Derrick Brooks had FOUR TOTAL TDS that season for the Bucs. 3 off INTs and 1 off a fumble return. He had all of those by week 7. Mike Alstott had 4 TDs by week 6. That means he could have only LED the team until week 5, because Alstott had 4 to Brooks' 3 by week 6. Brooks got another oen the following week, but Alstott still had 4 by that time. Also, Brad Johnson had 6 TD passes by week 4. That beats both of them. So how did Brooks lead the team in scoring until week 8?

07-07-2005, 01:00 AM	#11
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	saintswhodi I ran this earlier on the "Brooks" Thread , you might have some fun with it .... Time of Possession is always an interesting stat , it creates a couple of variables . For instance , ask " Where did the Saints defense rank in 2004 ?? " and 9 out of 10 posters would say dead last . Total Yards per game allowed is a bad way to check a defense , because it does not factor the offense pulling up lame . Consider yards per play as an average , it factors the yards allowed by the amount of time on the field . The 5 worst N.F.L. defenses 2004 5. Minnesota 4. Indianapolis 3. Oakland 2. Kansas City 1. New Orleans Yards Per Play Factor , and the order changes . 5. Green Bay with 5.7 yards per play - 967 plays 4. Minnesota with 5.8 yards per play - 1018 plays 3. New Orleans with 5.8 yards per play - 1067 plays 2. Tennessee with 5.9 yards per play - 977 plays 1. Kansas City with 6.3 yards per play - 960 plays
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

07-07-2005, 09:39 AM	#12
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by saintz08 saintswhodi I ran this earlier on the "Brooks" Thread , you might have some fun with it .... Time of Possession is always an interesting stat , it creates a couple of variables . For instance , ask " Where did the Saints defense rank in 2004 ?? " and 9 out of 10 posters would say dead last . Total Yards per game allowed is a bad way to check a defense , because it does not factor the offense pulling up lame . Consider yards per play as an average , it factors the yards allowed by the amount of time on the field . The 5 worst N.F.L. defenses 2004 5. Minnesota 4. Indianapolis 3. Oakland 2. Kansas City 1. New Orleans Yards Per Play Factor , and the order changes . 5. Green Bay with 5.7 yards per play - 967 plays 4. Minnesota with 5.8 yards per play - 1018 plays 3. New Orleans with 5.8 yards per play - 1067 plays 2. Tennessee with 5.9 yards per play - 977 plays 1. Kansas City with 6.3 yards per play - 960 plays I saw it 08. And your TOP post. And your Brooks first half passer ratings posts. Kinda what motivated me to take a look.

07-07-2005, 11:21 AM	#13
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	all i no is we were last in defence and .500 8-8 THATS ALL THAT MATTERS IS THE WINS !! Man! Really? Why didn't we sign more Wins this offseason? That sucks. PS - what's defence? Is that like the thing you paint? De fence. B/c I thought we were last in defense.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

07-07-2005, 12:25 PM	#15
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by saintfan "Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢ organization." - Eric Narcisse Our defense sucked unless I missed something. More than anything else we just couldn't stop the run. We couldn't stop the run early in the game when we weren't tired, and we couldn't stop the run late in the game when we were. Yeah, that 29th ranked TOP by the offense wouldn't make a defense tired or anything. We couldn't score or get a first down early either. Even when the defense gave us THREE turnovers in the first haf(Seattle), we could only manage 7 points for the entire game and about 60 total rushing.

07-10-2005, 04:47 PM	#17
along 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 190	We can come up with all the facts we want about our Defense...but the bottom line is...our Defense was last in everything last year and if the Defense don't do a lot better then that this year ya can look for the same thing. A 8-8 SEASON AND NO PLAYOFF!
along 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 190

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07-07-2005, 11:21 AM	#14
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢ organization." - Eric Narcisse Our defense sucked unless I missed something. More than anything else we just couldn't stop the run. We couldn't stop the run early in the game when we weren't tired, and we couldn't stop the run late in the game when we were.

07-07-2005, 07:15 PM	#16
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	improving ball control will always help the d. there aren't as many chances for the other teams o. i don't think you can argue at all that our d was just terrible last year for the first 12 games. i don't think that it helped that we didnt score in the first quarter last year for the most part. basically i thought we played really well last year the final 4 games. mainly though more then anything and tell me if this sounds new or not, we need to stop the run better this year. you may have heard something like that the last few years. all i know is when a team runs, in the first quarter of a preseason game this year, for like 100 yards , i am not going to listen to has about the two runs that distorted the stats. if anyone at all remembers that from last year. according to has at some points last year we were only letting up 3.7 yards per caryy. well mind you that was because he took out the 48 yard run and the 38 yarder. somehow they didnt count.

07-10-2005, 08:41 PM	#18
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Please once and for all, will the knuckleheads please stop making excuses for why the defense sucks! Wow, namecalling kinda early in your tenure here huh? Can you explain to me that an offense that is 29th in time of possession, committs frequent red zone turnovers, puts the defense in untenable positions due to regular turnovers, and could not score the VAST majority of the year in the first quarter, and barely in the first half, HELPED the defense? And then explain to me how in the first game of the year, the defense gives the offense THREE turnovers in the FIRST HALF, yet for the game the offense manages only SEVEN points. Explain to me how the defense held Seattle(A PLAYOFF TEAM AND DIVISION WINNER OF THE NFC WEST) to 14 points deep into the secodn half, only to see the OFFENSE throw an INT that gave Seattle the ball in their own red zone, and sealed the game. Explain how that HELPED the defense to this knucklehead. Ravens, Carolina, Buc's, NewEngland(Brady's first year), Giants, Falcons (NFC Championship last year) they can't even pass the ball. Ravens were one of the top rushing teams in the league, so was the Falcons last year. For the Bucs, Brad Johnson threw for over 3000 yards, 22Tds and 6 INTs in only 13 games. Brady his first year as the starter, their first Superbowl, threw for 2800 yards and 18 TDs. I think they got past the 50 once or twice. Kerry Collins and the Giants had a pretty damn good offense the year they went to the Superbowl. HE had 3600 yards passing and 22 Tds that year. Seems like a decent offense. And that's not even mentioning the rushing. These offenses were at least efficient, ours wasn't.

07-11-2005, 10:14 AM	#19
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Hmm, I see how my statement: These offenses were at least efficient, ours wasn't. could be taken as me saying they were balanced. I don't know how, but somehow that's what you got. I'll explain though. When you lead the league in rushing, even if that's all your offense does well, you eat clock, keep the opposing team's offense off the field, keep your defense rested and gives them time to make adjustments. That should be obvious. We were 27th in rushing. That was an OFFENSIVE problem, not a Brooks problem or any other single player. I mainly blame McCarthy for changing the offense, but that's here not there. Now please, find the word balance in anything I said here or in my previous post. I never said it. I said EFFICIENT. And I don't pay as much attention to stats, because they are so misleading. They'll have your brain missing things you shouldn't. Which is your problem. Then how do you defend Aaron Brooks? If there wasn't the stats for his supporters to stand on(yards and Tds), he would have nothing at all. Man, you are doing yourself in here. Now how good was Brad Johnson since this was going on? Ask the people who voted him in the pro bowl that year. Oh my, those would be the fans. I guess the millions of people who voted him into the pro bowl lose their cedibility too huh? I think we only have to worry about that with one person here. Kerry Collins? are you seriously trying to say he was good that year are any year? I don't know. Do you consider 22 Tds, 13 INts, an 83.1 rating an 3600 yards good? With Amani Toomer as your number one option? And to drive the point home, look at the success our Franchise had when we had the great defenses, and compare to now. We didn't have any balanced team, Hebert would throw a INT at any unforeseen chance, we couldn't run the ball Mora's entire tenure...And had horrible special-teams except when we had Mel Gray. Your sense of balance is very lop-sided. Success as in NEVER winning a playoff game? I remember years when we would battle the Eagles for the number one D in the league all year, what did it get us? any playoff wins? Out of the first round? If the defense is the almighty hammer you want it to be, then shouldn't we have been in the NFC champ game every year with the Eagles with the defenses we had. We weren't. Not until we got a semblance of an offense to go with a good defense did we win a playoff game.

07-11-2005, 10:46 AM	#20
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Derrick Brooks was the Buc's leading scorer up until week 8 of their superbowl season, I didn't get that by stat...I watched the games! You may watch the games, but you don't remember them well. Derrick Brooks had FOUR TOTAL TDS that season for the Bucs. 3 off INTs and 1 off a fumble return. He had all of those by week 7. Mike Alstott had 4 TDs by week 6. That means he could have only LED the team until week 5, because Alstott had 4 to Brooks' 3 by week 6. Brooks got another oen the following week, but Alstott still had 4 by that time. Also, Brad Johnson had 6 TD passes by week 4. That beats both of them. So how did Brooks lead the team in scoring until week 8?