Carson Palmer wasn't a bust to me.

I'd also exclude Troy Smith from the equation. He went 5th round in his draft class.

Agree on Palmer. I had a front row seat (Not really. No way I buy a ticket to this POS team unless the Saints are in town) to see what happens when a Heisman winning #1 draft pick ends up under center of a stinking pile of sh*t team. The fact that Palmer was able to compile a 46-51 record while here probably warrants consideration for the NFL Hall of Fame.

Speaking of the Bengals, remember those Akili Smith years?

And this beauty.
"Prior to the draft, there was an effort by New Orleans Saints' head coach Mike Ditka and management to get the Cincinnati Bengals' high draft position so the Saints could get Ricky Williams. The final offer, which was refused by Bengals management, was for nine draft picks, several extra in that year as well as many the next year. Instead of taking the trade, the Bengals stayed with their initial decision to draft Smith, who, while athletic, (he had also played two years of minor-league baseball and ran a 4.66 40-yard dash was still largely unproven, having only succeeded at the college level for one season."

So, Mike Brown had first right of refusal on Ditka's infamous deal and turned down 9 draft picks....for Akili Smith. And we wonder why the Bungles are the Bungles. At least Smith was able to stay out of jail. When I first moved to Cinci the joke going around town was that the team photos were always taken at the Hamilton County jail.

Palmer is the one guy in the list I would probably take as a QB. He was decent but was on bad teams, like how we saw Archie Manning back in the day.

On stat sites, guys debate how good Archie truly was, cause he really did not elevate the Saints in those early years.

The Saints actually lost more games after he was drafted, which is the opposite of the old claim that a good QB will get you a few wins the team would've lost without them.

The flip side to this is that Manning was pretty much ruined before he could've even got started and that's a fair argument to push. He was sacked over 50+ times in those first two seasons and when he finally started to hit his peak as a player, the damage was done.

I think Archie is the greatest "what if" argument in NFL stat realms cause BOTH arguments have their points and it's really impossible to take sides. He's one of the very, very few players in history and through stats where there is a common ground in the middle where both sides are right.

I've long believed this is why Archie didn't want Eli going to San Diego. He probably told him "don't go to a team with horrible management, you'll end up like me." and that prompted his decision to refuse to go there. I don't entirely fault Eli for this or blame Archie for wanting something better for his son. John Elway did it too and he knew what the hell he was doing by avoiding the mess with the Colts organization in those years.