Barry Hirstius: Should Saints Break the Bank to Pay Teddy B?

The Dude · 10-31-2019, 09:45 PM

No. I think Payton kept him on a tight leash and played him safe and he did a great job with that. I’m just not convinced he can deliver if he had an open play book and the game was squarely on his shoulders. No matter how good a team as a whole is eventually a game will come down to the QB getting them out of a tough spot. I just haven’t seen that intensity from him yet.

jeanpierre · 10-31-2019, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I really don't think signing our players will be quite as difficult as some feel. The available cap is about to go through the roof with the gambling industry becoming involved and the global growth of the game. These new sources of revenue are yet to be fully recognized in the finances of the league. In addition, the new CBA will most likely include an increase in the players portion of the shared revenues. The players are currently mandated to receive 48.5% of those dollars. That could go up to as high as 50% as a counter to a 17th regular season game which is wanted by the owners. Coincidentally, the extra game will also increase revenues, thus increasing the available cap even more.

The 2019 cap is $188.2 million. It should easily top $200 million in 2020 and should be close to $250 million by 2023 ... if not higher!

That all said, I really do not see re-signing Teddy, as I expect Brees to be the Saints starter for at least three more years.

Saints currently have nearly $20mil in dead cap from Brees, Bridgewater & Klein, and they're not signed for 2020...

Unless we're counting on Easton at LG, who's been inactive for several games this season, we have no LG under contract either...

Vonn Bell, Eli Apple, David Onyemata are not under contract for 2020 - tough to consider with only just under $26mil of cap space to get all that done...

AsylumGuido · 11-01-2019, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Saints currently have nearly $20mil in dead cap from Brees, Bridgewater & Klein, and they're not signed for 2020...

Unless we're counting on Easton at LG, who's been inactive for several games this season, we have no LG under contract either...

Vonn Bell, Eli Apple, David Onyemata are not under contract for 2020 - tough to consider with only just under $26mil of cap space to get all that done...

Teddy's is the only dead cap we HAVE to take on and it's only $4M. Brees and Klein ($1M dead cap and if we decide to keep him) can both be restructured as part of an extension. All of the others can be signed to deals with low base first year or two with signing bonuses and roster bonuses (something Loomis loves using) in place which pushes the burden out to when the cap limit skyrockets post 2020 CBA renewal.

As for replacing Peat, who's to say we don't find another McCoy type success to plug in at LG?

It is nowhere near as bleak as a quick glance at raw numbers may appear. Loomis has been one of the few visionaries that has always factored in future cap growth into his deals.

jeanpierre · 11-01-2019, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Teddy's is the only dead cap we HAVE to take on and it's only $4M. Brees and Klein ($1M dead cap and if we decide to keep him) can both be restructured as part of an extension. All of the others can be signed to deals with low base first year or two with signing bonuses and roster bonuses (something Loomis loves using) in place which pushes the burden out to when the cap limit skyrockets post 2020 CBA renewal.

As for replacing Peat, who's to say we don't find another McCoy type success to plug in at LG?

It is nowhere near as bleak as a quick glance at raw numbers may appear. Loomis has been one of the few visionaries that has always factored in future cap growth into his deals.

Source: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-orleans-saints/ (Click the 2020 tab)

Sure it can all be restructured and the debt moved forward on future teams, but the numbers cited are legit...

And to be fair, never said it was bleak, just presented the check book and balance sheet as it currently stands...

From those numbers, folks are informed of the team's room to work within in deciding who stays and who goes...

Or rather who is most affordable, effective for the buck - but we will see good players leave and possibly compensatory picks...

AsylumGuido · 11-01-2019, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Source: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-orleans-saints/ (Click the 2020 tab)

Sure it can all be restructured and the debt moved forward on future teams, but the numbers cited are legit...

And to be fair, never said it was bleak, just presented the check book and balance sheet as it currently stands...

From those numbers, folks are informed of the team's room to work within in deciding who stays and who goes...

Or rather who is most affordable, effective for the buck - but we will see good players leave and possibly compensatory picks...

But, as I stated, those numbers are nothing more than a snapshot, a single frame in a moving picture show. Any goodbye's, beyond Bridgewater, will have more to do with fit on the roster rather than the ability, or inability, to fit that player within the cap limitations. I know you understand the flexibility of the cap numbers, but many people look at that and think those numbers are set in stone. They do not understand that quite a bit of manipulation will occur between now and end of next preseason.

Oh, and when was the last time we got a compensatory pick?

Oh, and I am a fan of spotrac.com for my cap tracking needs.

TheOak · 11-01-2019, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

Before the Saints can make any type of decision regarding Teddy, they must understand the intentions of Drew. If Drew says 2020 is his targeted last year, then you try and sign Teddy to a 5 year deal and have him backup Drew one more season. If Drew says he is playing indefinitely, then you thank Teddy for his service and wish him the best with his new team.

I get your intent but it doesn’t work that way in reality and you should never let an employee who’s job isn’t to make organizational decisions decide the path for your organization.

That’s a bad practice for a few reasons:
- It’s bad form to hang one mans future off another mans “intention”. Teddy doesn’t deserve to have Drew decide his future and Drew doesn’t deserve to have that weight put on him.

- If anyone could reliably understand another persons intentions, there would be no divorces, no parolees going back to prison. Think the Colt’s knew they understood Luck’s intentions?

Teddy is not the Saints future QB, the Dolphins offered him at most 12.5MM and I suspect if any team would think Teddy their future they would have stolen him at 15/Year. If anyone im the Saints organization thought Teddy was the future they would have tied him up for 5 years at a cheap price and left him backup until he started.

QB will be a yearly contract until Drew retires, the organization trades him, or someone offers him a deal he can’t refuse.

Oh and to the original question... No

SmashMouth · 11-01-2019, 02:13 PM

I think everyone is overlooking that this is also Taysom's last year on his current contract. He'll want to get paid too.

AsylumGuido · 11-01-2019, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

I think everyone is overlooking that this is also Taysom's last year on his current contract. He'll want to get paid too.

He has done nothing to warrant any more than backup QB money and he loses his true value if is in fact a backup QB.

The Dude · 11-01-2019, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

I think everyone is overlooking that this is also Taysom's last year on his current contract. He'll want to get paid too.

He doesn’t have another year?

AsylumGuido · 11-01-2019, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

He doesn’t have another year?

He'll be an RFA so we can put that tag on him.

10-31-2019, 09:45 PM	#11
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,006	Re: Barry Hirstius: Should Saints Break the Bank to Pay Teddy B? No. I think Payton kept him on a tight leash and played him safe and he did a great job with that. I’m just not convinced he can deliver if he had an open play book and the game was squarely on his shoulders. No matter how good a team as a whole is eventually a game will come down to the QB getting them out of a tough spot. I just haven’t seen that intensity from him yet.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,006

10-31-2019, 10:19 PM	#12
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Barry Hirstius: Should Saints Break the Bank to Pay Teddy B? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I really don't think signing our players will be quite as difficult as some feel. The available cap is about to go through the roof with the gambling industry becoming involved and the global growth of the game. These new sources of revenue are yet to be fully recognized in the finances of the league. In addition, the new CBA will most likely include an increase in the players portion of the shared revenues. The players are currently mandated to receive 48.5% of those dollars. That could go up to as high as 50% as a counter to a 17th regular season game which is wanted by the owners. Coincidentally, the extra game will also increase revenues, thus increasing the available cap even more. The 2019 cap is $188.2 million. It should easily top $200 million in 2020 and should be close to $250 million by 2023 ... if not higher! That all said, I really do not see re-signing Teddy, as I expect Brees to be the Saints starter for at least three more years. Saints currently have nearly $20mil in dead cap from Brees, Bridgewater & Klein, and they're not signed for 2020... Unless we're counting on Easton at LG, who's been inactive for several games this season, we have no LG under contract either... Vonn Bell, Eli Apple, David Onyemata are not under contract for 2020 - tough to consider with only just under $26mil of cap space to get all that done...

11-01-2019, 06:40 AM	#13
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,391	Re: Barry Hirstius: Should Saints Break the Bank to Pay Teddy B? Originally Posted by jeanpierre Saints currently have nearly $20mil in dead cap from Brees, Bridgewater & Klein, and they're not signed for 2020... Unless we're counting on Easton at LG, who's been inactive for several games this season, we have no LG under contract either... Vonn Bell, Eli Apple, David Onyemata are not under contract for 2020 - tough to consider with only just under $26mil of cap space to get all that done... Teddy's is the only dead cap we HAVE to take on and it's only $4M. Brees and Klein ($1M dead cap and if we decide to keep him) can both be restructured as part of an extension. All of the others can be signed to deals with low base first year or two with signing bonuses and roster bonuses (something Loomis loves using) in place which pushes the burden out to when the cap limit skyrockets post 2020 CBA renewal. As for replacing Peat, who's to say we don't find another McCoy type success to plug in at LG? It is nowhere near as bleak as a quick glance at raw numbers may appear. Loomis has been one of the few visionaries that has always factored in future cap growth into his deals.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

11-01-2019, 08:17 AM	#14
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Barry Hirstius: Should Saints Break the Bank to Pay Teddy B? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Teddy's is the only dead cap we HAVE to take on and it's only $4M. Brees and Klein ($1M dead cap and if we decide to keep him) can both be restructured as part of an extension. All of the others can be signed to deals with low base first year or two with signing bonuses and roster bonuses (something Loomis loves using) in place which pushes the burden out to when the cap limit skyrockets post 2020 CBA renewal. As for replacing Peat, who's to say we don't find another McCoy type success to plug in at LG? It is nowhere near as bleak as a quick glance at raw numbers may appear. Loomis has been one of the few visionaries that has always factored in future cap growth into his deals. Source: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-orleans-saints/ (Click the 2020 tab) Sure it can all be restructured and the debt moved forward on future teams, but the numbers cited are legit... And to be fair, never said it was bleak, just presented the check book and balance sheet as it currently stands... From those numbers, folks are informed of the team's room to work within in deciding who stays and who goes... Or rather who is most affordable, effective for the buck - but we will see good players leave and possibly compensatory picks...

11-01-2019, 12:24 PM	#15
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,391	Re: Barry Hirstius: Should Saints Break the Bank to Pay Teddy B? Originally Posted by jeanpierre Source: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-orleans-saints/ (Click the 2020 tab) Sure it can all be restructured and the debt moved forward on future teams, but the numbers cited are legit... And to be fair, never said it was bleak, just presented the check book and balance sheet as it currently stands... From those numbers, folks are informed of the team's room to work within in deciding who stays and who goes... Or rather who is most affordable, effective for the buck - but we will see good players leave and possibly compensatory picks... But, as I stated, those numbers are nothing more than a snapshot, a single frame in a moving picture show. Any goodbye's, beyond Bridgewater, will have more to do with fit on the roster rather than the ability, or inability, to fit that player within the cap limitations. I know you understand the flexibility of the cap numbers, but many people look at that and think those numbers are set in stone. They do not understand that quite a bit of manipulation will occur between now and end of next preseason. Oh, and when was the last time we got a compensatory pick? Oh, and I am a fan of spotrac.com for my cap tracking needs.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

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11-01-2019, 02:11 PM	#16
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Barry Hirstius: Should Saints Break the Bank to Pay Teddy B? Originally Posted by MatthewT Before the Saints can make any type of decision regarding Teddy, they must understand the intentions of Drew. If Drew says 2020 is his targeted last year, then you try and sign Teddy to a 5 year deal and have him backup Drew one more season. If Drew says he is playing indefinitely, then you thank Teddy for his service and wish him the best with his new team. I get your intent but it doesn’t work that way in reality and you should never let an employee who’s job isn’t to make organizational decisions decide the path for your organization. That’s a bad practice for a few reasons: - It’s bad form to hang one mans future off another mans “intention”. Teddy doesn’t deserve to have Drew decide his future and Drew doesn’t deserve to have that weight put on him. - If anyone could reliably understand another persons intentions, there would be no divorces, no parolees going back to prison. Think the Colt’s knew they understood Luck’s intentions? Teddy is not the Saints future QB, the Dolphins offered him at most 12.5MM and I suspect if any team would think Teddy their future they would have stolen him at 15/Year. If anyone im the Saints organization thought Teddy was the future they would have tied him up for 5 years at a cheap price and left him backup until he started. QB will be a yearly contract until Drew retires, the organization trades him, or someone offers him a deal he can’t refuse. Oh and to the original question... No
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

11-01-2019, 02:13 PM	#17
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 36,958 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Barry Hirstius: Should Saints Break the Bank to Pay Teddy B? I think everyone is overlooking that this is also Taysom's last year on his current contract. He'll want to get paid too.

11-01-2019, 02:36 PM	#18
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,391	Re: Barry Hirstius: Should Saints Break the Bank to Pay Teddy B? Originally Posted by SmashMouth I think everyone is overlooking that this is also Taysom's last year on his current contract. He'll want to get paid too. He has done nothing to warrant any more than backup QB money and he loses his true value if is in fact a backup QB. Rsanders24 likes this.

11-01-2019, 02:50 PM	#19
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,006	Re: Barry Hirstius: Should Saints Break the Bank to Pay Teddy B? Originally Posted by SmashMouth I think everyone is overlooking that this is also Taysom's last year on his current contract. He'll want to get paid too. He doesn’t have another year?
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,006

11-01-2019, 03:23 PM	#20
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,391	Re: Barry Hirstius: Should Saints Break the Bank to Pay Teddy B? Originally Posted by The Dude He doesn’t have another year? He'll be an RFA so we can put that tag on him. Rsanders24 likes this.

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