Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 866195)

Yes. That's what I thought. But this isn't last year. No "blueprint" has come to fruition in terms of stopping CSP's offense. The team is 7-1 after facing a current top 10 schedule in the league, and including facing that similar Dallas team.

To me it's been all about "What if?" What if CGM is double covered? Or CGM is unavailable for some reason? What then?

We have evidence in the last 8 games. 5+ games without Brees? The team goes 5-1. Games without Kamara? No problem. And none of this was last season. This is the Saints now.

I really think that it's just too much influence of fantasy football. FF players want to have all stars in every starting position, and in every backup position too. But that cannot be done with real teams. When CGM gets a $100 million extension, it does mean that some other part of the organization has to go without.

And going without the 3rd/4th receiver is something we can live with. The Saints have other playmakers. There's Ginn who has been productive when asked. Karama/Murray who execute outlets and screens to perfection. Cook was warming up before being injured, while TQS was injured on a play that gained 28 yards.

Also the most missing element of the lethargic finish last year was the health of the offensive line. Pretty much from tackle to tackle, from Peat, to Unger, to Warford, the line was dinged up late last season. Note that so far this season that hasn't been the case and the production and the record reflects that.

All of this to say that there's no way that the Saints' season going to hang on a 3rd/4th WR's production. That's a position that has to be multiple and productive without a bunch of targets and catches because after the balls to CGM, the backs, Ginn, Cook/Hill/Arnold, and Taysom, there's slim pickings left after that. My assertion is as long as the O-line holds up and Brees is healthy/fresh there's no defense that can defend the waves of options that CSP will throw at defenses down the stretch.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by K Major (Post 866188)

...
At the end of the day Tre, Cook, Kirkwood, Jordan Humphrey and Carr have yet to produce. For me, it' not all about acquiring Dez but more about getting production on Sunday's from others not named Thomas. Does anyone realize that Taysom Hill (3 td's) has more receiving yards than all of those "other guys" not named MT & Ginn?

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 866207)

That lack of production is because of a lack of targets. Now we can look at the lack of targets in two ways:

1. The receivers listed simply are not making themselves available to be targeted because they are not talented enough to be a threat on the field.

2. The targets from Brees/Teddy went elsewhere simply because their earlier reads in the progression were available.

Looks at CGM's stat line: 89 targets, 73 catches, 82% catch rate, 12.5 yards/rec. CGM is the #1 read on virtually every pass play. And with that success rate, why would a QB target anyone else if CGM is open?

The backs, tight ends and Ginn have over 150 more targets after that. With Teddy being a 2 read QB, it makes sense that the vast marjority of the targets will be to CGM as the first read and Ginn/TE the 2nd, and backs as the outlet.

There really just isn't much left after that especially with Teddy, but even with Brees. I know I shouldn't refer back to last year but just an example of what I'm talking about. It was reported on Brees' record breaking TD pass to TQS against Washington last year that TQS's route is one that's virtually never targeted. The play simply isn't schemed for the ball to go to that receiver for that play.

I'm arguing that much of the Saints offense is designed like that, which creates the perceived lack of production. Carr for example has participated in 188 snaps, which is 34 percent of the offensive snaps. He's had 4 targets in those snaps. I ask if being targeted and making catches is Carr's most critical function, then why would CSP continue to roll Carr out on the field with that level of production?

I guess someone will try to double CGM every play and get the right personnel on Kamara/Murray forcing Brees to other targets. Then and only then can we see if the lack of production is due to lack of targets or lack of talent.

But until then, it ain't broke. So I'm just wondering why everyone is trying to find ways to fix a non-problem IMHO.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 866207)

But until then, it ain't broke. So I'm just wondering why everyone is trying to find ways to fix a non-problem IMHO.

SFIAH

Originally Posted by K Major (Post 866188)

Posters who say "we are fine when Tre, Cook etc returns" kind of missed my point.

The goal here is to add another THREAT at WR that will enable a very good Saints team to become every better down the stretch & into the playoffs. To date Can't Guard Mike has 73 receptions /875 yards ... that's incredible. Lose Thomas for a series, half or game ... good grief. Yet we had a few people who argued that he shouldn't get paid this past off season.

Why does anyone think the Saints reached out to Denver (ESanders) & Cincy (AJ Green) on a possible trade?

At the end of the day Tre, Cook, Kirkwood, Jordan Humphrey and Carr have yet to produce. For me, it' not all about acquiring Dez but more about getting production on Sunday's from others not named Thomas. Does anyone realize that Taysom Hill (3 td's) has more receiving yards than all of those "other guys" not named MT & Ginn?

Originally Posted by cmike (Post 866221)

Brees said the same thing in a interview. He said until teams figure a way to stop Mike, why try anything different.
The Rams did not stop Mike in the NFCCG, Brees did a poor job delivering him the ball.

Originally Posted by CHA_CHING (Post 866231)

Brees was bad in the playoffs period, but especially in the NFCCG.

On the infamous non-call play, had the corner been watching the ball it would've been an INT and possibly a pick six with all that room to run. Even Troy Aikman said it.

Before that, the long bomb to Ginn was nearly intercepted.

The INT in overtime was coming. We weren't playing our best that day and letting the Rams hang around long enough to steal it.

This year feels different. I don't think we'll get stuck in the same situation as last year where we struggled offensively every game after Thanksgiving.

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker (Post 866258)

This is crazy. Brees hits Arnold in the hands in the 1st that he dropped. There wasn't anyone near the missed PI that could have intercepted that ball. The OT pick, Brees was hit in the arm and head. We struggled last year because all receivers except Thomas was injured.