Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs

spkb25 · 11-22-2019, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

A recent quote from sports analyst John Sigler :

"He’ll have down games where he’s simply outplayed by more experienced opponents. But the mere fact that leading the team (and maybe the rest of the NFL) in quarterback pressures is possible is noteworthy. Once he starts finishing his rushes better and gets opportunities to make a play rather than facilitate for someone else, the sacks will come."

Got to give him time boss. Just like Rankins ... & he's a beast now.

Like I said, he started off the year looking like a real solid player. He was standing out. Easy to see. But he was drafted to get after the QB and basically be cam 2.0. I've seen the potential but he has also dropped off. I don't buy it for a second the massive drop this week was simply the packages. I think it was to get his gears going like the start of the season.

Let's see what he does this week. I think you're going to see more. If you go back and look you can see the praise I was leaping on him. It wasn't just his pressure on the QB it was also his ability against the run and pursuit.

There's been a drop off and I'm not going to ignore that just like I dont ignore when he is playing really good

But our dline is a strength and our defense is coached well with good talent.

Rankins looked good during his first season. There was a huge drop off where he started looking like Ellis. Last year he turned it back up. Shame he got I hired again. Not being funny but I forgot he was on the team still because I've literally not heard his name once.

Nothing wrong with giving time, but also nothing wrong about an honest assessment when a player looks phenomenal and nothing wrong with stating when they're not. I am honest about the good and bad.

It is sort of like when we signed Ginn and people said he had a problem with catching at times. People were criticized for that, but people in the know were well aware. Now that same person who criticized others is also offering the same sentiment ��

spkb25 · 11-22-2019, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Rsanders24

Especially with the way Allen is playing recently. They want to run the ball and then sprinkle in the play action for pass. They do not want Allen just having to drop back and pass the ball.

I think we will continue to see heavy rotation between Davenport and Trey and if it continues to work for the team then what is their to complain about...

I agree boss, too many complaints. Our WR are sad. Drew and the offense aren't good. I feel you. I'm sure they're not observations and opinion, but complaints. True story

http://blackandgold.com/saints/96020...tml#post866960

http://blackandgold.com/saints/96045...tml#post867175

http://blackandgold.com/saints/96007...tml#post866951

http://blackandgold.com/saints/94994...tml#post855884

AsylumGuido · 11-22-2019, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

A recent quote from sports analyst John Sigler :

"He’ll have down games where he’s simply outplayed by more experienced opponents. But the mere fact that leading the team (and maybe the rest of the NFL) in quarterback pressures is possible is noteworthy. Once he starts finishing his rushes better and gets opportunities to make a play rather than facilitate for someone else, the sacks will come."

Got to give him time boss. Just like Rankins ... & he's a beast now.

This is a part of the game that many simply do not understand. Each player has a specific job in every defensive alignment. I heard the same complaints last year about Rankins not getting the sacks, while those "in the know" were praising his play and how he was drawing attention giving Jordan and others more opportunities. Same goes for Klein in the LB squad. They just do their jobs as defined.

dizzle88 · 11-22-2019, 11:30 AM

I'm curious to know what is logged as a pressure.

If Marcus crashes the pocket, loses contain but reaches for the QB and misses (like on Winston's 23 yard run) is that considered a pressure?

spkb25 · 11-22-2019, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I'm curious to know what is logged as a pressure.

If Marcus crashes the pocket, loses contain but reaches for the QB and misses (like on Winston's 23 yard run) is that considered a pressure?

That's a good question. I too wonder how that's calculated. Anyone in the know respond please

AsylumGuido · 11-22-2019, 01:19 PM

According to SportingCharts.com:

A quarterback hurry (or pressure) is counted when a defender either forces a quarterback out of the pocket or pressures the throw. It doesn't necessarily mean that the defender actually forced the quarterback to make a bad throw. Hurries are often a good indicator of a team's pass rush. Just because a player is not getting sacks, it does not mean he is not a good pass rusher, because hurrying the quarterback into a poor decision can be just as effective.

AsylumGuido · 11-22-2019, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I'm curious to know what is logged as a pressure.

If Marcus crashes the pocket, loses contain but reaches for the QB and misses (like on Winston's 23 yard run) is that considered a pressure?

Originally Posted by spkb25

That's a good question. I too wonder how that's calculated. Anyone in the know respond please

Having re-watched the play several times I would say that according to the definition of a pressure Davenport would have been awarded a pressure given that he successfully forced Winston out of the pocket.

On the play Davenport shifted inside of Rankins, while Rankins shifted to an outside route to the QB on his right hand side. Davenport bull rushed his man all the way up the middle of the pocket into Winston's face. Winston stepped out to his left where Rankins was supposed to be in contain, but Rankins was being handled by the LT. Kiko Alonzo, also part of the rush, was back in the middle but was held by C Ryan Jenson on the play. Everyone else was back in coverage giving Winston a wide open gap for the run.

All in all, Davenport did his job, but Rankins got manhandled and Alonzo was held.

Rsanders24 · 11-22-2019, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by spkb25

I agree boss, too many complaints. Our WR are sad. Drew and the offense aren't good. I feel you. I'm sure they're not observations and opinion, but complaints. True story

http://blackandgold.com/saints/96020...tml#post866960

http://blackandgold.com/saints/96045...tml#post867175

http://blackandgold.com/saints/96007...tml#post866951

http://blackandgold.com/saints/94994...tml#post855884

Yeah boss...good points and all...fact of the matter is that only Jordan plays more than 70% of the snaps on the entire D line. So is Sheldon falling off too? Davenport had to play a high count at the beginning because Trey wasn’t available.

Offense is completely different because there are always several WRs on the field with Thomas and they still barely contribute to the passing game. Maybe the WRs are great at clearing things out for MT...and if that’s what Payton then we are complaining because we want to see something different.

spkb25 · 11-22-2019, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Rsanders24

Yeah boss...good points and all...fact of the matter is that only Jordan plays more than 70% of the snaps on the entire D line. So is Sheldon falling off too? Davenport had to play a high count at the beginning because Trey wasn’t available.

Offense is completely different because there are always several WRs on the field with Thomas and they still barely contribute to the passing game. Maybe the WRs are great at clearing things out for MT...and if that’s what Payton then we are complaining because we want to see something different.

Oh I see all good points, not complaints. Yesss, when you see something not going well it is a good point. For other people it is complaining. Thank you for explaining. I had a feeling it was something like that.

Um didnt trey play the first 3 or 4 games this season? Because that was when he had 70%. It was actually after that it went to 60 then 50 and this week 34. I feel like trey was out the last few weeks. Maybe I'm wrong. But it seems it is possible your analyses might be completely off.

Sheldon I couldn't tell you what he is up to because I haven't heard his name at all. I literally forgot he was on the team. Does he even have a sack ? How many tackles does he have?

Rugby Saint II · 11-23-2019, 03:20 PM

This has been a very informative debate. I am wondering if his toe is still bothering him since he isn't fast off the line at the snap? Personally, I like him. He is quite an athlete and I enjoy watching him play. He never quits no matter how far away the football is and is always hustling no matter what the score.

11-22-2019, 08:54 AM	#21
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs Originally Posted by K Major A recent quote from sports analyst John Sigler : "He’ll have down games where he’s simply outplayed by more experienced opponents. But the mere fact that leading the team (and maybe the rest of the NFL) in quarterback pressures is possible is noteworthy. Once he starts finishing his rushes better and gets opportunities to make a play rather than facilitate for someone else, the sacks will come." Got to give him time boss. Just like Rankins ... & he's a beast now. Like I said, he started off the year looking like a real solid player. He was standing out. Easy to see. But he was drafted to get after the QB and basically be cam 2.0. I've seen the potential but he has also dropped off. I don't buy it for a second the massive drop this week was simply the packages. I think it was to get his gears going like the start of the season. Let's see what he does this week. I think you're going to see more. If you go back and look you can see the praise I was leaping on him. It wasn't just his pressure on the QB it was also his ability against the run and pursuit. There's been a drop off and I'm not going to ignore that just like I dont ignore when he is playing really good But our dline is a strength and our defense is coached well with good talent. Rankins looked good during his first season. There was a huge drop off where he started looking like Ellis. Last year he turned it back up. Shame he got I hired again. Not being funny but I forgot he was on the team still because I've literally not heard his name once. Nothing wrong with giving time, but also nothing wrong about an honest assessment when a player looks phenomenal and nothing wrong with stating when they're not. I am honest about the good and bad. It is sort of like when we signed Ginn and people said he had a problem with catching at times. People were criticized for that, but people in the know were well aware. Now that same person who criticized others is also offering the same sentiment �� dizzle88 likes this.
	Your team stinks Last edited by spkb25; 11-22-2019 at 09:11 AM..

11-22-2019, 08:57 AM	#22
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs Originally Posted by Rsanders24 Especially with the way Allen is playing recently. They want to run the ball and then sprinkle in the play action for pass. They do not want Allen just having to drop back and pass the ball. I think we will continue to see heavy rotation between Davenport and Trey and if it continues to work for the team then what is their to complain about... I agree boss, too many complaints. Our WR are sad. Drew and the offense aren't good. I feel you. I'm sure they're not observations and opinion, but complaints. True story http://blackandgold.com/saints/96020...tml#post866960 http://blackandgold.com/saints/96045...tml#post867175 http://blackandgold.com/saints/96007...tml#post866951 http://blackandgold.com/saints/94994...tml#post855884

11-22-2019, 09:02 AM	#23
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,216	Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs Originally Posted by K Major A recent quote from sports analyst John Sigler : "He’ll have down games where he’s simply outplayed by more experienced opponents. But the mere fact that leading the team (and maybe the rest of the NFL) in quarterback pressures is possible is noteworthy. Once he starts finishing his rushes better and gets opportunities to make a play rather than facilitate for someone else, the sacks will come." Got to give him time boss. Just like Rankins ... & he's a beast now. This is a part of the game that many simply do not understand. Each player has a specific job in every defensive alignment. I heard the same complaints last year about Rankins not getting the sacks, while those "in the know" were praising his play and how he was drawing attention giving Jordan and others more opportunities. Same goes for Klein in the LB squad. They just do their jobs as defined. Crusader and K Major like this.

11-22-2019, 11:30 AM	#24
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,208	Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs I'm curious to know what is logged as a pressure. If Marcus crashes the pocket, loses contain but reaches for the QB and misses (like on Winston's 23 yard run) is that considered a pressure?

11-22-2019, 12:09 PM	#25
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs Originally Posted by dizzle88 I'm curious to know what is logged as a pressure. If Marcus crashes the pocket, loses contain but reaches for the QB and misses (like on Winston's 23 yard run) is that considered a pressure? That's a good question. I too wonder how that's calculated. Anyone in the know respond please

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11-22-2019, 01:19 PM	#26
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,216	Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs According to SportingCharts.com: A quarterback hurry (or pressure) is counted when a defender either forces a quarterback out of the pocket or pressures the throw. It doesn't necessarily mean that the defender actually forced the quarterback to make a bad throw. Hurries are often a good indicator of a team's pass rush. Just because a player is not getting sacks, it does not mean he is not a good pass rusher, because hurrying the quarterback into a poor decision can be just as effective. K Major likes this.

11-22-2019, 01:49 PM	#27
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,216	Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs Originally Posted by dizzle88 I'm curious to know what is logged as a pressure. If Marcus crashes the pocket, loses contain but reaches for the QB and misses (like on Winston's 23 yard run) is that considered a pressure? Originally Posted by spkb25 That's a good question. I too wonder how that's calculated. Anyone in the know respond please Having re-watched the play several times I would say that according to the definition of a pressure Davenport would have been awarded a pressure given that he successfully forced Winston out of the pocket. On the play Davenport shifted inside of Rankins, while Rankins shifted to an outside route to the QB on his right hand side. Davenport bull rushed his man all the way up the middle of the pocket into Winston's face. Winston stepped out to his left where Rankins was supposed to be in contain, but Rankins was being handled by the LT. Kiko Alonzo, also part of the rush, was back in the middle but was held by C Ryan Jenson on the play. Everyone else was back in coverage giving Winston a wide open gap for the run. All in all, Davenport did his job, but Rankins got manhandled and Alonzo was held.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

11-22-2019, 03:51 PM	#28
Rsanders24 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Baton Rouge, LA. Posts: 1,482	Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs Originally Posted by spkb25 I agree boss, too many complaints. Our WR are sad. Drew and the offense aren't good. I feel you. I'm sure they're not observations and opinion, but complaints. True story http://blackandgold.com/saints/96020...tml#post866960 http://blackandgold.com/saints/96045...tml#post867175 http://blackandgold.com/saints/96007...tml#post866951 http://blackandgold.com/saints/94994...tml#post855884 Yeah boss...good points and all...fact of the matter is that only Jordan plays more than 70% of the snaps on the entire D line. So is Sheldon falling off too? Davenport had to play a high count at the beginning because Trey wasn’t available. Offense is completely different because there are always several WRs on the field with Thomas and they still barely contribute to the passing game. Maybe the WRs are great at clearing things out for MT...and if that’s what Payton then we are complaining because we want to see something different.

11-22-2019, 09:54 PM	#29
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs Originally Posted by Rsanders24 Yeah boss...good points and all...fact of the matter is that only Jordan plays more than 70% of the snaps on the entire D line. So is Sheldon falling off too? Davenport had to play a high count at the beginning because Trey wasn’t available. Offense is completely different because there are always several WRs on the field with Thomas and they still barely contribute to the passing game. Maybe the WRs are great at clearing things out for MT...and if that’s what Payton then we are complaining because we want to see something different. Oh I see all good points, not complaints. Yesss, when you see something not going well it is a good point. For other people it is complaining. Thank you for explaining. I had a feeling it was something like that. Um didnt trey play the first 3 or 4 games this season? Because that was when he had 70%. It was actually after that it went to 60 then 50 and this week 34. I feel like trey was out the last few weeks. Maybe I'm wrong. But it seems it is possible your analyses might be completely off. Sheldon I couldn't tell you what he is up to because I haven't heard his name at all. I literally forgot he was on the team. Does he even have a sack ? How many tackles does he have?
	Your team stinks

11-23-2019, 03:20 PM	#30
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,052	Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs This has been a very informative debate. I am wondering if his toe is still bothering him since he isn't fast off the line at the snap? Personally, I like him. He is quite an athlete and I enjoy watching him play. He never quits no matter how far away the football is and is always hustling no matter what the score.