Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

The New Orleans Saints handled their Week 11 game with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers with ease, but did so largely without second-year pass rusher Marcus Davenport. The starting defensive end played just 23 snaps against Tampa Bay, with backup Trey Hendrickson appearing on 34 plays. That’s obviously not the kind of disparity Saints fans would hope to see out of that duo.

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https://saintswire.usatoday.com/2019...venport-stats/

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

In short talent utilization.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

What are you saying Sean, Trey Hendrickson is a better player?

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

No, a different player. Sounds like Dennis Allen wants Davenport in the same package as Rankin in running situations. This makes perfect sense with Allen's complex defense. Especially with the younger players. They can all master their role with veterans like Cam in there in all the situations.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Agree with AG's post ... and just to piggy back here.

For a 2nd year player, I don't find it troubling that TRex could be seen as a more "polished" pass rusher than MD. This year, Trey looks like a more formidable player against a heavy pass "attack", while Davenport is more versatile against a more balanced attack/run heavy.

Both are likely to improve. IMO we are in great shape with DL depth with allows a solid, stout rotation throughout the game & allows Coach Dennis to scheme to each players strengths.

When the playoffs start, this is an excellent situation to be in. See Philly D line rotation that won it all a couple of seasons ago.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Davenport showed real promise early this season. It appeared he was trending into the next Cam. There is a reason he saw reduced snaps and don't believe it was simply the packages we were running.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

I believe you are wrong. Let's see this week what his snap count is and if he is indeed in on the same packages as Rankins. Carolina should be more committed to the run than was Tampa (8 rushing attempts).

His snap counts on special teams have also been up the past two games.

What do you believe is the reason his count went down that one game?

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Poor play. Not enough juice getting to the qb. Plus he has actually seen a steady decline in snaps vs the start of the season, albeit this has been his lowest count to date.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Glass half empty.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

When I look at facts I dont view them from either a half empty or half full viewpoint. I view the facts as is.

Glass half empty response is simply a distractor and honestly it is irrelevant. But you have to say that because it is all you have. When you dont have facts to support your position this is what you inevitably resort to.

You asked a question, I responded with facts. I'm sorry if you dont like them. At the end of the day every single fan wants him to be a pro bowler.

Have a nice day, thanks for the discussion.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Rereading your reply looking for those supposed "facts" to which you refer as the "reason" for the reduced snaps for Davenport in the Bucs game. The ONLY fact for the reason is the statement from Payton saying that the lack of the running game by the Bucs reduced the need for the defensive package that included Davenport. All you supplied were personal speculations that in no way can be taken as fact in the eyes of team management. I haven't heard anything coming from the front office supporting your personal opinions on the reduced snaps for that game. Sounds pretty pessimistic to me.

So, in your personal opinion you feel that Davenport is showing 1.) poor play, and 2.) not enough juice getting to the QB.

Can you point out some tangible examples of Davenport's poor play that would cause the Saints coaching staff to reduce his snap counts in the Tampa game?

And explain not enough juice getting to the QB. If Davenport is indeed involved in the defensive package (as explained by K_Major earlier) he would be responsible for protecting against the run first and then pressuring the QB. This differs from the package in which Hendrickson has been identified by Payton as being a part. Hendrickson job is a straight out rush on the QB with no run responsibility.

We have a deep group of defensive linemen that can be rotated based upon scheme that utilizes the individual strengths of the individual players. That is a good thing.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Dang.... Hate when I have to agree with AG...

Truth is, Davenport is doing well rushing the passer, and consider, the 2nd year is when players take a step back (usually) before exploding in their 3rd year (see Marcus Williams).

"He’s notched 38 pressures so far, the ninth-most among edge defenders, with 27 hurries to his credit (8th) to go along with three sacks and a pass-rush productivity of 9.9, which is tied with T.J. Watt for 11th among players at his position."

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-new-orl...proved-players

Davenport is shaping up well, some players just need a good rotation and plays off.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Thank you for the discussion, have a great day

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

I'm hoping we see some urgency this next game. Early on this year he was very impressive for a 2nd year guy. He has definitely cooled off and his snap production was at 70, then 50, and this game 30 percent. The talent appears to be there. Hopeful to see more out of him this week.

We have a great dline, no doubt Bout it.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Precisely.

See Trey "T Rex" Hendrickson as well. 3rd year, he's been a beast coming off the edge.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

It makes sense that Davenport's overall snap count would go down as the defensive packages became more defined. At the beginning of the season four defensive linemen were all getting close to 80% or more of the snaps. In the Chicago game none of the defensive linemen were in for more than 69%. Davenport had the most defensive snaps at that 69% and then Jordan, Alonzo, Rankins and Onyamata. Edwards, Brown and Tuttle all had significant snaps. It appeared the package rotation was fully in place at that point.

In the Falcons game Jordan was the only lineman with over 54% of the defensive snaps. Seven other DL players were splitting time. The snap count of all the original four players with high counts had dropped significantly. Those players were all in the 70% plus range early on, then all dropped down into the 50% range, Henrickson jumped up in the same game that Davenport dropped down. Payton explained why.

You can expect to see more of Davenport IF the Panthers running game remains active, but if they get down big and go strictly to the pass you may see the same result again. Personally, I doubt Carolina will abandon the run to that degree even if they get down early. McCaffrey is too important a part of their game to completely take the ball out of his hands on the ground.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Especially with the way Allen is playing recently. They want to run the ball and then sprinkle in the play action for pass. They do not want Allen just having to drop back and pass the ball.

I think we will continue to see heavy rotation between Davenport and Trey and if it continues to work for the team then what is their to complain about...

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

The stranger part is Davenport was drafted to get after the QB. Trey also wasn't a top 15 pick. Its not supposed to take a top 15 picks 3 years in the league.

I hope he shows what he showed early on this year. He started off looking like he was going to be a monster. I remember posting multiple times on the board how much pressure and how solid he was playing. There's been a fall off and it is noticeable.

I hope maybe this past week was a kick in the balls for him and lights that fire.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

It's some peoples nature to complain. This defensive strategy worked well for the Eagles a couple of years ago.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

A recent quote from sports analyst John Sigler :

"He’ll have down games where he’s simply outplayed by more experienced opponents. But the mere fact that leading the team (and maybe the rest of the NFL) in quarterback pressures is possible is noteworthy. Once he starts finishing his rushes better and gets opportunities to make a play rather than facilitate for someone else, the sacks will come."

Got to give him time boss. Just like Rankins ... & he's a beast now.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Like I said, he started off the year looking like a real solid player. He was standing out. Easy to see. But he was drafted to get after the QB and basically be cam 2.0. I've seen the potential but he has also dropped off. I don't buy it for a second the massive drop this week was simply the packages. I think it was to get his gears going like the start of the season.

Let's see what he does this week. I think you're going to see more. If you go back and look you can see the praise I was leaping on him. It wasn't just his pressure on the QB it was also his ability against the run and pursuit.

There's been a drop off and I'm not going to ignore that just like I dont ignore when he is playing really good

But our dline is a strength and our defense is coached well with good talent.

Rankins looked good during his first season. There was a huge drop off where he started looking like Ellis. Last year he turned it back up. Shame he got I hired again. Not being funny but I forgot he was on the team still because I've literally not heard his name once.

Nothing wrong with giving time, but also nothing wrong about an honest assessment when a player looks phenomenal and nothing wrong with stating when they're not. I am honest about the good and bad.

It is sort of like when we signed Ginn and people said he had a problem with catching at times. People were criticized for that, but people in the know were well aware. Now that same person who criticized others is also offering the same sentiment ������

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

I agree boss, too many complaints. Our WR are sad. Drew and the offense aren't good. I feel you. I'm sure they're not observations and opinion, but complaints. True story

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Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

This is a part of the game that many simply do not understand. Each player has a specific job in every defensive alignment. I heard the same complaints last year about Rankins not getting the sacks, while those "in the know" were praising his play and how he was drawing attention giving Jordan and others more opportunities. Same goes for Klein in the LB squad. They just do their jobs as defined.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

I'm curious to know what is logged as a pressure.

If Marcus crashes the pocket, loses contain but reaches for the QB and misses (like on Winston's 23 yard run) is that considered a pressure?

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

That's a good question. I too wonder how that's calculated. Anyone in the know respond please

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

According to SportingCharts.com:

A quarterback hurry (or pressure) is counted when a defender either forces a quarterback out of the pocket or pressures the throw. It doesn't necessarily mean that the defender actually forced the quarterback to make a bad throw. Hurries are often a good indicator of a team's pass rush. Just because a player is not getting sacks, it does not mean he is not a good pass rusher, because hurrying the quarterback into a poor decision can be just as effective.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Having re-watched the play several times I would say that according to the definition of a pressure Davenport would have been awarded a pressure given that he successfully forced Winston out of the pocket.

On the play Davenport shifted inside of Rankins, while Rankins shifted to an outside route to the QB on his right hand side. Davenport bull rushed his man all the way up the middle of the pocket into Winston's face. Winston stepped out to his left where Rankins was supposed to be in contain, but Rankins was being handled by the LT. Kiko Alonzo, also part of the rush, was back in the middle but was held by C Ryan Jenson on the play. Everyone else was back in coverage giving Winston a wide open gap for the run.

All in all, Davenport did his job, but Rankins got manhandled and Alonzo was held.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Yeah boss...good points and all...fact of the matter is that only Jordan plays more than 70% of the snaps on the entire D line. So is Sheldon falling off too? Davenport had to play a high count at the beginning because Trey wasn’t available.

Offense is completely different because there are always several WRs on the field with Thomas and they still barely contribute to the passing game. Maybe the WRs are great at clearing things out for MT...and if that’s what Payton then we are complaining because we want to see something different.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Oh I see all good points, not complaints. Yesss, when you see something not going well it is a good point. For other people it is complaining. Thank you for explaining. I had a feeling it was something like that.

Um didnt trey play the first 3 or 4 games this season? Because that was when he had 70%. It was actually after that it went to 60 then 50 and this week 34. I feel like trey was out the last few weeks. Maybe I'm wrong. But it seems it is possible your analyses might be completely off.

Sheldon I couldn't tell you what he is up to because I haven't heard his name at all. I literally forgot he was on the team. Does he even have a sack ? How many tackles does he have?

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

This has been a very informative debate. I am wondering if his toe is still bothering him since he isn't fast off the line at the snap? Personally, I like him. He is quite an athlete and I enjoy watching him play. He never quits no matter how far away the football is and is always hustling no matter what the score.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Would make sense. Something is different. Early on he was dominant.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Prior to Trey getting Hurt Him and Davenport were splitting snaps

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Is Fine, as far as development goes being technical he's further along than Can was at this time so.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

That "toe" looks fine to me boss.

He made 2 crucial plays today. We don't win without his efforts.

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Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

You are right about Trey. He actually started the year off with a bang. I made a mistake and was still looking at Rankins stats when thinking about Trey. Everyone played more snaps on the D line because Rankins was the missing piece. Since then when you look at the numbers, it looks like they are managing work load and trying to keep the D line fresh. It's hard to take Cam off the field when he is one of the top 3 players on the defense and the key to the D line. Trey is ok against the run...definitely better against the pass but he is also a penalty magnet for hands to the face.

Sheldon has been very down this season in production...one sack...maybe he isnt at 100% from his injury.

Overall they did a great job controlling the line of scrimmage today and MD played well also....with a couple.of key pressures.

Re: Sean Payton explains Marcus Davenport's low snap count vs. Bucs
 

Our top 5 defensive players according to PFF

-Sheldon Rankins - 59.8...Last week 60.9
-Malcom Brown - 70.9...Last week 68.3
-David Onyemata - 64.1...Last week 65.3
-Mario Edwards - 71.8...Last week 62.9
-Shy Tuttle - 68.3...Last week 63.6

-Cameron Jordan - 82.7...Last week 82.0
-Marcus Davenport - 78.1...Last week 76.1
-Trey Hendrickson - 53.0...Last week 58.1
-Carl Granderson - 30.5

-Demario Davis - 86.1...Last week 83.9
-A.J. Klein - 40.0...Last week 37.7
-Kiki Alonso - 69.2...Last week 74.4
-Craig Robertson - 65.3
-Stephone Anthony - N/A

-Marshon Lattimore - 69.5
-Eli Apple - 71.9...Last week 73.9
-PJ Williams - 52.3...Last week 59.6
-Patrick Robinson - 52.5...Last week 59.6
-Justin Hardee - 60.4
-Johnson Bademosi - 68.8

-Marcus Williams - 90.5...Last week 91.4
-Vonn Bell - 64.0...Last week 65.1
-Chauncey Gardner-Johnson - 68.1...Last week 72.9
-Saquan Hampton - 44.2
-J.T. Gray - 64.7M Williams