Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Good morning B&G :bng:,

Thought I'd start a thread to discuss our lack of closing in big games ... specifically on defense. We've looked good in the regular season however as the playoff starts, we can't seem to close.

I understand Brees didn't have a good performance, we were lacking difference makers (Shimmy & Davenport) etc but what gives on defense ? We are good defending 1st and 2nd downs however 3rd down is where there are breakdowns. Repeatedly. I focus on Niners game (4th down to Kittle) & Vikes bomb (Marcus was late) to Adam K in OT which put us out of the playoffs x(. We're giving up too many big plays & having deep ball breakdowns again and again.

IMO Def Coordinator Dennis Allen's name doesn't come up enough on the lack of putting players in position to make plays. There is too much talent on defense not to get it done in the playoffs.

Thoughts?

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Not sure who is at fault, but it does appear there is too much emphasis on creating a turnover instead of stopping the offense and creating a punting situation.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

1. Marcus Williams is a choking machine.
2. Defense was worn out from the lack of ball control.
3. Defensive line was worn out from the lack of rotation due to injuries.

The lack of pass rush was very noticeable for the last 4 games... losing Davenport was huge, and we lack any DT pass rushers.

I don’t blame Allen unless I start to see the ‘prevent a win Defense’, but that didn’t seem to be the case.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Fair points ...

However Dennis Allen's football background is all secondary. Last 3 years in the playoffs, I'm watching repeatedly breakdowns late in games in the secondary. With his expertise on the back end, this shouldn't be happening.

In that Vikes game, why are we playing ZONE and leave undersized PJ on Rudolph? Or how about LATE in the Niners game we had the lead but somehow Jimmy Garappolo trotting down the field with less than 53 ticks left on the clock? Not to forget the Rams went down the field with no TO's in OT & kicked us out of a SB.

It just seems to me that late in games, DA defense is not dependable when it matters most. This guy was a defensive back & this isn't an area (secondary collapses) where we should be consistently losing. Defending the "long field" is a problem. I find it very discouraging that we seem to give up a lot of clutch plays from mediocre QB's (Keenum, Jimmy, Goff, Kurt) over the years.

Dennis needs a defensive "consultant". He's been serviceable at best.

Just my opinion but Allen isn't going to take us to the SB because his defenses can't be counted on to make plays when it matters most. Minny miracle, last year vs Lambs and now the VIKES ... again. Kurt Cousins ? In our house? SMDH.

Payton has got to see the pattern.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Dont forget all the times where it happened, but the offense had enough time to re-take the lead. Specifically ones that come to mind are;

2019 - Week 1 vs Texans, Lattimore allows huge reception, Stills catches deep TD pass the next play.

2018 - Browns game in Superdome, we let Tyrod Taylor beat us deep with 50 seconds to go.

There are many more, those just come to mind straight away.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Agree with playing PJ on Rudolph, it was a 0 coverage blitz call and the ball was out fast. There aren't many going to stop that play, we have no one to match up with Rudolph. Problem was how they got there... Marcus Williams cheated to the wrong side of the field. He should have known that Lattimore was not in the game and given more support to Robinson instead of Jones, who had been solid all game.

Late in the 49ers game... That was all Williams, comes down late for the tackle then provides the game ending penalty. Our D played poorly for the entire game, so put that all on Allen for having no answers... but the game winning drive was basically 1 play that Williams blew.

The Rams game can't be put on the defense at all. They were a prolific offense that we held to 23 points in regulation. Our offense had the ball in OT and at the end of the 4th but couldn't execute.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

The problem is that when there are injuries to key players and your talent has a steep drop from your starters to the 2nd/3rds it doesn't matter your genius if the players refuse to play the ball once it is in the air and instead try to dry hump the receivers face.

I look at Dennis Allen this way. We were in the top half of the league in points allowed, yards per game, and 4th down%.. Top 6 in 3rd%.

Then I think about the Spagnuolo and Ryan years...

Im good with Allen. Very good with not screwing with that. :bng:

With the exception of maybe Lattimore and Jackrabbit... No one is watching our defensive secondary play and thinking.. Man I wish we had that guy.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Yet Steve Spagnuolo is one WIN away from the Super Bowl as 1st year Chiefs Defensive Coordinator. Some would even argue that the Saints have a more talented roster defensively from top to bottom than KC.

But we are here on the outside looking in ... again.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

ALL of the rules HEAVILY favors the offense. But, I think the Saints do play too soft and too much zone at times. The best defenses man up and attack. The Saints have enough talent for that.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Dont be fooled, KC defense is the weak link, its just the offense is so loaded against lack luster defenses in the AFC that it can make up for the defensive failures. That KC team would never fly in the NFC.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

So are the KC water boys. Being there doesn't speak to contribution...


Peat is in the Pro Bowl for Christ sake....

If 'being there' is your goal, save your self some heart ache and buy your self a ticket.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Marcus Williams should have known Patrick Robinson was going to get beat? Why are are we playing single high safety in that situation anyway is the better question?

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Marathon Lattimore getting beat was way worse. Defense getting ripped by Cook way Worse. Oline playing worst game of the year. Kicker missing a field goal. But Patrick Robinson getting beat is Marcus Williams fault? The same guy you all were praising a week or two prior when he stepped in? The switch up is real. Believe it or not Marcus Williams is one of the better safeties in the league

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

This post was started to discuss deficiencies of our Defensive Coordinator.

Saints haven't been back to the Super Bowl in over a decade and the last three years have been last minute miscues.

Not sure what buying a "ticket" has to do with anything. The Saints team goal is to get back and win it all.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Everyone is to blame. From the coaches to the water boy. If there's a better DC out there than go him.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Earlier in the season the defense played way too loose in garbage time.
All in all our defense was absolutely elite until they left players like Apple on the field when the game was well in hand. Led to injuries which they never really recovered from.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

The basic argument is that DA can't close. I"ll have to totally agree on that point.

The defense seems unprepared going in and then brings the counter punches when DA makes adjustments. His best adjustments come at half time where he figures their game plan out. The worst ones come with just moments left in the game when he gets a brain freeze.

Basically, I feel like his defense is not prepared for different scenarios that occur in a game.....just the basic game plan. We should do better.

We've had talent that we've brought in but most of the players on defense regress and I believe that that falls on coaching. Specifically Dennis Allen! His specialty is the secondary and that's our weakness. "Nuff said!

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

very provocative. and a lot less wacky than "we gotta get rid of Brees" talk.
definitely a pattern.
The State Rests its case.

I would like to add that our secondary, which should be DA's forte, should be named the Choke Patrol.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Yes, I understand the OP. Thus far you have listed only outcomes, and not one outcome can directly be attributed to Dennis Allen. Deficiencies are not outcomes and outcomes that have multiple drivers can not be attributed to one person. Let me rephrase because you are obviously attributing the outcomes to one person. They shouldn't be attributed to one person.

You specifically listed our 3rd down percentage which is 6th in the league for regular season. What EXACTLY are you saying or wanting here?

This is not peewee football. Dennis Allen does not 'put players in position' for a better outcome. Defense in the NFL is very dynamic up to the snap and pre-snap adjustments are on the players on the field. Crap brother.. at the High School level defenses made their own adjustments on the field pre-snap. Scheme and theory are on the Defensive coordinator not personal performance.

You have also stated that Sean Payton meddles in the Defense correct? Again cant blame Allen if the HC is interfering. :bng:

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

IDK,

At times it appears the Saints defense is playing with 9 guys and only half on the back end know what is going on. I hate to bang on the defense because in today's "modern offense", it's hard to defend. A lot of teams (including the Niners end of the reg season) are giving up big plays, but when you see the same shortcomings year after year after year, it just gets old.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Do we know that Aaron Glenn is actually a good coach? Getting lucky with Lattimore falling to us seemed to boost Glenn’s reputation.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

year after year after year..............

DC after DC. DC Gary Gibbs after DC Gregg Wiliams after DC Steve Spagnola after DC Rob Ryan after DC Dennis Allen. Two common threads, New Orleans Saints and HC Sean Payton. Maybe another example of how the Saints "ALWAYS" magic!

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Affirmative on all.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Dennis Allen isn't the reason our offense line couldn't block the Vikings or that our QB looked 100 years old.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

ME FIRST! ME FIRST!!!!!! "NEVER SHOULD HAVE LET SPAGS GO!!!!!!!" THE TITANS ARE 0 - 2,789 WHEN THEY RUSH LESS THAN 75 TIMES A GAME!!! :rofl:

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Laugh all you want .. Spaggs defense is finding a way today.

KC Chiefs defense is much improved this year and peaking at the right time.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

That 100 year old QB is still better than almost every other in the league. And the fact that the line couldn't block would make any QB look 100 years old, no? Who was it on?

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

I'll be the last one to toot Allens horn but I totally agree with you on your statement. The D should have only had to make a few stops ( which they did) turning the ball back over to the O. Most of this is entirely on the O. The D has a few holes but the O has a few more that needs to get corrected first and foremost. I'm more worried about Nolan leaving, I think he was a huge part of Allens game planning. Guess we'll see.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

My point!

TODAY

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

I really have no complaint with the defense from the wildcard loss.

Yes, they gave up the big play. But they were worn out by the end of that game. We don't even get to OT if Payton plays for a touchdown in the end and if Brees had played better. The fumble in the 4th quarter was the dagger.

With that said, I am not a fan of Dennis Allen at all and wanted him gone after 2016. Here we are, 3 seasons later still having these conversations....

I'm starting to think those 80s Bears comparisons to the 2000s-2010s Saints have a lot of truth to them. Legendary defense on one team, legendary HoF QB on the other - one Super Bowl. 2 other NFCCG appearances where they lost. All the talk about "they should've won more than just one chip".

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Spags is in the SB. You may have a point about Ryan, but Spags was never given a chance because SP wanted to shake things up after a season that was doomed from the minute the suspension happened to go along with lawsuits and a contract holdout.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Now ring #2 :rolleyes:.

Did you notice how Spaggs KC defense didn't give up a "big play" on the back end last 8 minutes of the SB game? Something Dennis Allen and his group can't seem to do.

CLOSE.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

I’d be ok with a change IF they kept 4-3 scheme. I’m so sick of Allen’s tendency to let his foot off the gas and play prevent.

Somebody will inevitably bring up Gregg Williams blitzing in that 49ers game...but look at Allen’s last 3 exits. Hello?

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Gonna see how good he is with the departure of Nolan?????

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

IMO losing Coach Mike Nolan to the Cows was huge. Great defensive mind.

I'm wondering who the list of candidates will be to fill our void as LB coach.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Huge is the correct word to use.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

It's kinda frustrating watching Spags win another ring with an organization that actually gave him a chance and let him build up a defensive coaching staff and change the culture there. That's the difference between Andy Reid and Sean Payton.

Say what you want about him and 2012, but he really was not given a chance here. It was the Bountygate year, the players gave up on him and had a mutiny in the locker room half way through the season. You could see it several times that year, they just didn't care. On the other hand, he told Payton the hard truths; wanting him to get rid of mediocre assistant coaches. Payton has proved time and time again he's going to side with his friends over someone else, so Vitt and others stayed.

Gregg Williams coached them like he was their friend and led to a toxic locker room with his brass style. You could see poor play all over the 2011 defense. Hell, you can go back to 2009. When the turnovers stopped, that defense struggled. After firing Spags, Payton's solution was to get a clone of Williams; Rob Ryan. Ryan was more worried about being a friend to the players and that same brass personality. It led to a disaster.

Allen also is a call back to Williams. For years, Saints fans have been yelling that we need another Gregg Williams cause that 2009 defense was just so legendary. We've had Williams 2.0 (Ryan) and now Williams 3.0 (Allen) for a while, and the results are pretty much the same as the end of the 2010 and 2011 seasons. We usually lose giving up that one big play that becomes a highlight reel for that team. 2018 was the exception and yet, we still nearly gave the Rams that one big play. Go back to the final drive before OT where Goff hits Kupp and he busts off for a 40+ yard gain. That one big play led to their field goal for OT. We gave the 49ers this past year that type of big play at the end of a game that goes on a highlight reel for years. The Vikings this past year almost beat us on another hail mary in OT with the pass to Thielan and I kinda wish they did, so people wouldn't have another pointless non-call to sit around and argue about.

I think Spags was the easy scapegoat of 2012. Even to this day, this fan base STILL bashes him for the 2012 defense without the irony that Allen's 2015 and 2016 defenses were arguably worse. The 2015 defense was giving up more yards through the hair and more TDs, and I'm pretty sure the 2016 defense broke the historical record for most passing TDs given up by a defense.

Allen is one of Payton's buddies and we're stuck with him.

Re: Saints Defensive Coordinator Dennis Allen
 

Jeff Ireland is why we have a decent D. Payton has never given any other coach a snowballs chance in he!! to get top D FA and top draft D players other than Allen. Williams took misfits and made a D, Spags never had a chance, Ryan put together a misfit crew his first season and masked a pretty poor D well his first season then the wheels fell off. Allen has been given the keys to the kingdom, able to fire Vitt and Johnson, top draft players, top FA, not one before him has had that type of skilled players to work with. Just food for thought ladies and gentlemen.