Rate the O-line

Rugby Saint II · 04-07-2020, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

FWIW, I thought in a "back up" role, Nick Easton performed well when Peat was out due to injury. He rarely holds, no false starts and minimum pressure on #9 in a relief role.

I did too until I read that Payton changed his blocking assignments and doubled or chipped with him to help him out.

TheOak · 04-07-2020, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Yeah, but Oak, everyone is bleeding come post season, everyone is banged-up, and our anchor LT, Mr. Glass, has a short history of playing through pain...

Now, don't think Peat gets enough tip-of-the-hats for some of the injuries he's played through (pins in the hand playing football - excruciating)...

My criticism of Peat was when he showed up at Yulman to see a professional athelete overweight, out-of-shape, winded running onto the field - no excuse...

But Major is right, when the competition became elite (Frisco in the Dome, Reg Season, Must Have Drives), some Guards have shrunk from the challenge...

The guy that I thought I got to much credit was Warford, usually when you need short yardage you go strong-side and move people, we had more success off-tackle than inside trap...

Warford was the kind of signing I hate, a consolation pick where we spent money set aside on a guy who showed all the signs of coasting, mailing it in once he got the Big Mo'...

We should've spent a little more, had the best LG in the NFL - Kevin Zeitler (picked with our traded pick in 2012 NO>NE>CIN), am sure he'd rather be in NO than that sh*t-show in CLE...

Jury is still out on Erik McCoy, but early indications are trending up; some exchange issues with Brees, but those will get better with reps; better reads, calls will come with experience...

Ramczyk has played like an All-Pro since he suited up and should've gotten the recognition and more he received this past season since that amazing rookie game at LT vs Minnesota...

But we've got trouble in River City at Guard; fortunately the contracts are not so bad we can't get out of 'em; our line will be a Top 5 unit minimum...

And that gives Brees something to work with on Sundays...

My reply was specific to K Majors post and not player specific. A line doesn't get bad in week 16 they get vulnerable at a specific position due to injury and the closer that injury is to the center of the line the more vulnerable the run game and QB become.

Unless you have played offensive line you think its 5 men playing the guy across from them and it isn't. There are no 1 on 1 battles pre-snap because as an o-lineman you don't know who, how many, or from where you are about to get hit. As soon as you go white knuckle on the guy across from you, you get a face full of dirt from a swim move or side step.

We tend to see a defensive player hit a QB and immediately blame the guy across from him for not blocking him... Guards specifically pull and trap and if the Tackle or Center do not make the necessary adjustment the guy across from the guard has open field at the QB.

I played line, every position on both sides of the ball. Having the best 5 players at their line position doesn't mean you have a good line. A good offensive line is ALL about cohesion... its not about a fast Center, its all 5 moving at the same speed... It isnt all about being able to block the guy in front of you, its more important to be able to know when the guy on the side of you is getting double teamed and giving assistance. Everyone's knee jerk is to start looking for different players, we dont need different players, we need what we have to play cohesively.

Everyone calls them dumb linemen.... its most of the people watching them that are clueless.

I am in no way taking up for Pete, go back to week 1 against the Texans I said he was out of shape and dragging azz. Frankly there is zero excuse for out of shape. I do remember not seeing him in any pre-season games, he may have not been healthy or just a case of the fatass all season.

Rugby Saint II · 04-10-2020, 03:37 PM

I'm hoping we go for a big ugly early to provide depth to a good line when healthy. Think we re-sign Omameh?

rezburna · 04-10-2020, 05:33 PM

Terron Armstead, LT - 88
Andrus Peat, LG - 67
Erick McCoy, C - 80
Larry Warford, RG - 78
Ryan Ramczyk, RT - 92

This grades out to an 81/B-. Obviously, we’re weak in the middle. I think we’ll see a huge improvement out of McCoy. Warford will be about the same. If Peat can just be average instead of sub par we can be a lot better of a unit.

voodooido · 04-10-2020, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

A good o-line doesn't get bad in the post season, they get injured.

If healthy I think we have the best in the league. TA imo is the weak link because of health issues. We also have backups that could start on half the teams in Clapp and Easton.

K Major · 04-10-2020, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by voodooido

TA imo is the weak link because of health issues. We also have backups that could start on half the teams in Clapp and Easton.

That is false.

Terron is worth the hassle despite his injuries. He may play hurt but he's still an elite LT when he does. You can count his bad games on one hand.

Meanwhile when Peat plays hurt, he gets steam rolled by linebackers & DT's. He's nothing more than an average guard whose value is playing multiple positions.

voodooido · 04-11-2020, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Terron Armstead, LT - 88
Andrus Peat, LG - 67
Erick McCoy, C - 80
Larry Warford, RG - 78
Ryan Ramczyk, RT - 92

This grades out to an 81/B-. Obviously, we’re weak in the middle. I think we’ll see a huge improvement out of McCoy. Warford will be about the same. If Peat can just be average instead of sub par we can be a lot better of a unit.

It is insane to rate Peat a 67 and Warford a 78. Both are easily as good as TA considering he only plays half of a season.

voodooido · 04-11-2020, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

That is false.

Terron is worth the hassle despite his injuries. He may play hurt but he's still an elite LT when he does. You can count his bad games on one hand.

Meanwhile when Peat plays hurt, he gets steam rolled by linebackers & DT's. He's nothing more than an average guard whose value is playing multiple positions.

So TA playing 71 out of a total 112 games (not counting playoffs) is not concerning to you? Peat has missed a few himself but playing in 60 in 80 is better than TA missing 41 games. Peat would need to appear in 180 games to equal the missed games of TA.

K Major · 04-11-2020, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by voodooido

So TA playing 71 out of a total 112 games (not counting playoffs) is not concerning to you? Peat has missed a few himself but playing in 60 in 80 is better than TA missing 41 games. Peat would need to appear in 180 games to equal the missed games of TA.

TA injuries have been aggravating over the years but he is who he is. Sean Payton knows and values his ability (mostly elite) @ LT as well as protecting #9's blindside.

Can we say that about Peat?

This is just me but I'm not sure why our coaches kept trying to make Peat happen. Look no further than the Vikings wildcard game of 2019. When Peat went out and Easton came in for a few plays, the Oline improved significantly. The stubbornness in letting Peat back in to play contributed to taking that L when everything was on the line.

Peat is the weak link on the Oline 2 years running.

rezburna · 04-11-2020, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by voodooido

It is insane to rate Peat a 67 and Warford a 78. Both are easily as good as TA considering he only plays half of a season.

PFF has Armstead as a solid 80. When he’s on the field, he produces. Nothing weak about his game. Peat on the other hand, has been giving up at least 3 sacks a season his entire career. Warford is solid. Is he Nicks or Evans? Nah...but he’s cool. Armstead is easily our 2nd best lineman. Possibly our best when truly healthy. His grades reflect that.

04-07-2020, 01:29 PM	#21
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,718	Re: Rate the O-line Originally Posted by K Major FWIW, I thought in a "back up" role, Nick Easton performed well when Peat was out due to injury. He rarely holds, no false starts and minimum pressure on #9 in a relief role. I did too until I read that Payton changed his blocking assignments and doubled or chipped with him to help him out.

04-07-2020, 02:41 PM	#22
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Rate the O-line Originally Posted by jeanpierre Yeah, but Oak, everyone is bleeding come post season, everyone is banged-up, and our anchor LT, Mr. Glass, has a short history of playing through pain... Now, don't think Peat gets enough tip-of-the-hats for some of the injuries he's played through (pins in the hand playing football - excruciating)... My criticism of Peat was when he showed up at Yulman to see a professional athelete overweight, out-of-shape, winded running onto the field - no excuse... But Major is right, when the competition became elite (Frisco in the Dome, Reg Season, Must Have Drives), some Guards have shrunk from the challenge... The guy that I thought I got to much credit was Warford, usually when you need short yardage you go strong-side and move people, we had more success off-tackle than inside trap... Warford was the kind of signing I hate, a consolation pick where we spent money set aside on a guy who showed all the signs of coasting, mailing it in once he got the Big Mo'... We should've spent a little more, had the best LG in the NFL - Kevin Zeitler (picked with our traded pick in 2012 NO>NE>CIN), am sure he'd rather be in NO than that sht-show in CLE... Jury is still out on Erik McCoy, but early indications are trending up; some exchange issues with Brees, but those will get better with reps; better reads, calls will come with experience... Ramczyk has played like an All-Pro since he suited up and should've gotten the recognition and more he received this past season since that amazing rookie game at LT vs Minnesota... But we've got trouble in River City at Guard; fortunately the contracts* are not so bad we can't get out of 'em; our line will be a Top 5 unit minimum... And that gives Brees something to work with on Sundays... My reply was specific to K Majors post and not player specific. A line doesn't get bad in week 16 they get vulnerable at a specific position due to injury and the closer that injury is to the center of the line the more vulnerable the run game and QB become. Unless you have played offensive line you think its 5 men playing the guy across from them and it isn't. There are no 1 on 1 battles pre-snap because as an o-lineman you don't know who, how many, or from where you are about to get hit. As soon as you go white knuckle on the guy across from you, you get a face full of dirt from a swim move or side step. We tend to see a defensive player hit a QB and immediately blame the guy across from him for not blocking him... Guards specifically pull and trap and if the Tackle or Center do not make the necessary adjustment the guy across from the guard has open field at the QB. I played line, every position on both sides of the ball. Having the best 5 players at their line position doesn't mean you have a good line. A good offensive line is ALL about cohesion... its not about a fast Center, its all 5 moving at the same speed... It isnt all about being able to block the guy in front of you, its more important to be able to know when the guy on the side of you is getting double teamed and giving assistance. Everyone's knee jerk is to start looking for different players, we dont need different players, we need what we have to play cohesively. Everyone calls them dumb linemen.... its most of the people watching them that are clueless. I am in no way taking up for Pete, go back to week 1 against the Texans I said he was out of shape and dragging azz. Frankly there is zero excuse for out of shape. I do remember not seeing him in any pre-season games, he may have not been healthy or just a case of the fatass all season.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

04-10-2020, 03:37 PM	#23
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,718	Re: Rate the O-line I'm hoping we go for a big ugly early to provide depth to a good line when healthy. Think we re-sign Omameh?

04-10-2020, 05:33 PM	#24
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,650	Re: Rate the O-line Terron Armstead, LT - 88 Andrus Peat, LG - 67 Erick McCoy, C - 80 Larry Warford, RG - 78 Ryan Ramczyk, RT - 92 This grades out to an 81/B-. Obviously, we’re weak in the middle. I think we’ll see a huge improvement out of McCoy. Warford will be about the same. If Peat can just be average instead of sub par we can be a lot better of a unit.

04-10-2020, 06:56 PM	#25
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,739	Re: Rate the O-line Originally Posted by TheOak A good o-line doesn't get bad in the post season, they get injured. If healthy I think we have the best in the league. TA imo is the weak link because of health issues. We also have backups that could start on half the teams in Clapp and Easton.
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,739

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04-10-2020, 08:08 PM	#26
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,018 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Rate the O-line Originally Posted by voodooido TA imo is the weak link because of health issues. We also have backups that could start on half the teams in Clapp and Easton. That is false. Terron is worth the hassle despite his injuries. He may play hurt but he's still an elite LT when he does. You can count his bad games on one hand. Meanwhile when Peat plays hurt, he gets steam rolled by linebackers & DT's. He's nothing more than an average guard whose value is playing multiple positions.

04-11-2020, 04:49 PM	#27
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,739	Re: Rate the O-line Originally Posted by rezburna Terron Armstead, LT - 88 Andrus Peat, LG - 67 Erick McCoy, C - 80 Larry Warford, RG - 78 Ryan Ramczyk, RT - 92 This grades out to an 81/B-. Obviously, we’re weak in the middle. I think we’ll see a huge improvement out of McCoy. Warford will be about the same. If Peat can just be average instead of sub par we can be a lot better of a unit. It is insane to rate Peat a 67 and Warford a 78. Both are easily as good as TA considering he only plays half of a season.
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,739

04-11-2020, 04:55 PM	#28
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,739	Re: Rate the O-line Originally Posted by K Major That is false. Terron is worth the hassle despite his injuries. He may play hurt but he's still an elite LT when he does. You can count his bad games on one hand. Meanwhile when Peat plays hurt, he gets steam rolled by linebackers & DT's. He's nothing more than an average guard whose value is playing multiple positions. So TA playing 71 out of a total 112 games (not counting playoffs) is not concerning to you? Peat has missed a few himself but playing in 60 in 80 is better than TA missing 41 games. Peat would need to appear in 180 games to equal the missed games of TA.
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,739

04-11-2020, 06:24 PM	#29
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,018 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Rate the O-line Originally Posted by voodooido So TA playing 71 out of a total 112 games (not counting playoffs) is not concerning to you? Peat has missed a few himself but playing in 60 in 80 is better than TA missing 41 games. Peat would need to appear in 180 games to equal the missed games of TA. TA injuries have been aggravating over the years but he is who he is. Sean Payton knows and values his ability (mostly elite) @ LT as well as protecting #9's blindside. Can we say that about Peat? This is just me but I'm not sure why our coaches kept trying to make Peat happen. Look no further than the Vikings wildcard game of 2019. When Peat went out and Easton came in for a few plays, the Oline improved significantly. The stubbornness in letting Peat back in to play contributed to taking that L when everything was on the line. Peat is the weak link on the Oline 2 years running.
	“Winning is a habit, but losing is too.” Russell Wilson

04-11-2020, 11:24 PM	#30
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,650	Re: Rate the O-line Originally Posted by voodooido It is insane to rate Peat a 67 and Warford a 78. Both are easily as good as TA considering he only plays half of a season. PFF has Armstead as a solid 80. When he’s on the field, he produces. Nothing weak about his game. Peat on the other hand, has been giving up at least 3 sacks a season his entire career. Warford is solid. Is he Nicks or Evans? Nah...but he’s cool. Armstead is easily our 2nd best lineman. Possibly our best when truly healthy. His grades reflect that.