With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy?

jeanpierre · 04-12-2020, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

According to Pat Kirwan virtually all trade scenarios have already been discussed between GM's prior to the draft. Especially those in the earlier rounds. These trades are rarely done "on the fly". Usually it's a quick call to say, "Still up for what we discussed?"

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

...Ever since Ireland came aboard, drafts seem to have improved. Why change your draft approach unless your evaluation process is hindered?

Allow me to illustrate...

2008 DT Sedrick Ellis, Payton trades with New England, Saints trade up for DT Sedrick Ellis after failing to make a deal with KC; Belichick took All-Pro LBer Jerrod Mayo.
2010 DT Al Woods, Payton traded with Arizona; the Cardinals take DE O'Brien Schofield a few picks later...
2010 C Matt Tennant, Payton traded 2011 4th round pick with Jacksonville to make this selection in the fifth round...
2011 RB Mark Ingram, Payton traded Saints 2011 Second Round Pick (56th/Shane Verreen) and 2012 First Round Pick (G Kevin Zeitler -Cin) to New England...

New England traded the pick with Cincinnati for their first round selection (21st overall) and took Chandler Jones; CIN also got a 3rd for moving back...
Pick was especially costly because the Saints not having a first to pay the bountygate penalty would have to give up two second round picks in 2012 and 2013...
Saints wisely extend Ingram in 2015 despite not having a 1000RuYd Season to that point...
Payton breaks up dynamic RB duo Ingram/Kamara, lets Ingram walk to Ravens; taking load off of breakout QB Lamar Jackson rejuvenates Ravens Franchise...
2011 LB Martez Wilson and conditional 2012 sixth-round selection, Payton traded OT Jammal Brown and a fifth round pick in return...
2012 Payton Bountygate
2013 NT John Jenkins (88th overall); Payton traded two 4th round picks (106th & 109th) to MIA; MIA traded 109th pick to Green Bay who took All-Pro OT David Bakhtiari...
2014 WR Brandin Cooks; Payton traded 1st & 3rd round picks to move up, amid Eagles rumours; AZ used No. 27 on S Deone Bucannon and No. 91 on WR John Brown...
2014 LB Ronald Powell; Payton traded RB Darren Sproles to Philadelphia for a fifth round pick and took Powell...
2015 Sean Payton hired Jeff Ireland to rebuild scouting department, evaluate Saints Draft Process; very quickly he transitioned as Director College Scouting and Asst GM...
2015 Saints trade All-Pro TE Jimmy Graham & a 3rd round pick for All-Pro C Max Unger and a 1st round pick; Payton experimenting with a 3-4 defense selects LB Stephone Anthony...
2015 Jeff Ireland engineers trade with former Team MIA, sent WR Kenny Stills for LBer Dannell Ellerbe and 3rd round pick (No. 78), CB P.J. Williams...
2015 Jeff Ireland breaks ice with KC and trades G Ben Grubbs to KC for fifth round pick (no. 154), NT Tyeler Davison...
2015 Damian Swann, 5th round (No. 167 overall), send 6th round pick (No. 187 overall) and 2016 sixth-round selection to the Washington Redskins
2016 SS Vonn Bell, Payton trades up for Bell and send New England a 3rd round pick (No. 78 ), G Joe Thuney and a 4th round pick (No. 112) WR Malcolm Mitchell...

2020 Saints let Vonn Bell walk in Free Agency...
2016 DT David Onyemata, Saints trade 5th round pick (152nd) and a 2017 4th round pick (No. )to WAS and select Onyemata in Round 4 (No. 120)

2020 Saints wisely re-signed Onyemata in Free Agency...

I'll pick up with more Post-Ireland Arrival (2017 NFL Draft) later...

AsylumGuido · 04-12-2020, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Allow me to illustrate...
2008 DT Sedrick Ellis, Payton trades with New England, Saints trade up for DT Sedrick Ellis after failing to make a deal with KC; Belichick took All-Pro LBer Jerrod Mayo.

2010 DT Al Woods, Payton traded with Arizona; the Cardinals take DE O'Brien Schofield a few picks later...

2010 C Matt Tennant, Payton traded 2011 4th round pick with Jacksonville to make this selection in the fifth round...

2011 RB Mark Ingram, Payton traded Saints 2011 Second Round Pick (56th/Shane Verreen) and 2012 First Round Pick (G Kevin Zeitler -Cin) to New England...

New England traded the pick with Cincinnati for their first round selection (21st overall) and took Chandler Jones; CIN also got a 3rd for moving back...
Pick was especially costly because the Saints not having a first to pay the bountygate penalty would have to give up two second round picks in 2012 and 2013...
Saints wisely extend Ingram in 2015 despite not having a 1000RuYd Season to that point...
Payton breaks up dynamic RB duo Ingram/Kamara, lets Ingram walk to Ravens; taking load off of breakout QB Lamar Jackson rejuvenates Ravens Franchise...

2011 LB Martez Wilson and conditional 2012 sixth-round selection, Payton traded OT Jammal Brown and a fifth round pick in return...

2012 Payton Bountygate

2013 NT John Jenkins (88th overall); Payton traded two 4th round picks (106th & 109th) to MIA; MIA traded 109th pick to Green Bay who took All-Pro OT David Bakhtiari...

2014 WR Brandin Cooks; Payton traded 1st & 3rd round picks to move up, amid Eagles rumours; AZ used No. 27 on S Deone Bucannon and No. 91 on WR John Brown...

2014 LB Ronald Powell; Payton traded RB Darren Sproles to Philadelphia for a fifth round pick and took Powell...

2015 Sean Payton hired Jeff Ireland to rebuild scouting department, evaluate Saints Draft Process; very quickly he transitioned as Director College Scouting and Asst GM...

2015 Saints trade All-Pro TE Jimmy Graham & a 3rd round pick for All-Pro C Max Unger and a 1st round pick; Payton experimenting with a 3-4 defense selects LB Stephone Anthony...

2015 Jeff Ireland engineers trade with former Team MIA, sent WR Kenny Stills for LBer Dannell Ellerbe and 3rd round pick (No. 78), CB P.J. Williams...

2015 Jeff Ireland breaks ice with KC and trades G Ben Grubbs to KC for fifth round pick (no. 154), NT Tyeler Davison...

2015 Damian Swann, 5th round (No. 167 overall), send 6th round pick (No. 187 overall) and 2016 sixth-round selection to the Washington Redskins

2016 SS Vonn Bell, Payton trades up for Bell and send New England a 3rd round pick (No. 78 ), G Joe Thuney and a 4th round pick (No. 112) WR Malcolm Mitchell...

2020 Saints let Vonn Bell walk in Free Agency...

2016 DT David Onyemata, Saints trade 5th round pick (152nd) and a 2017 4th round pick (No. )to WAS and select Onyemata in Round 4 (No. 120)

2020 Saints wisely re-signed Onyemata in Free Agency...

I'll pick up with more Post-Ireland Arrival (2017 NFL Draft) later...

Way too much draft detail for me. LOL! As you know, my friend, what happens in the draft happens and is always water under the bridge as far as I am concerned. Now the negotiating parts with other franchises is interesting, but my interest in the players come into play when, and if, they make the team and hit the field. But, of course, I also enjoy the contract and cap implications. Far more interesting to me than the draft itself. I'm not saying I do not enjoy watching the draft these days because I expect every pick to be a goldmine.

Oh ...

19-0 Baby!

The Dude · 04-12-2020, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Allow me to illustrate...
2008 DT Sedrick Ellis, Payton trades with New England, Saints trade up for DT Sedrick Ellis after failing to make a deal with KC; Belichick took All-Pro LBer Jerrod Mayo.

2010 DT Al Woods, Payton traded with Arizona; the Cardinals take DE O'Brien Schofield a few picks later...

2010 C Matt Tennant, Payton traded 2011 4th round pick with Jacksonville to make this selection in the fifth round...

2011 RB Mark Ingram, Payton traded Saints 2011 Second Round Pick (56th/Shane Verreen) and 2012 First Round Pick (G Kevin Zeitler -Cin) to New England...

New England traded the pick with Cincinnati for their first round selection (21st overall) and took Chandler Jones; CIN also got a 3rd for moving back...
Pick was especially costly because the Saints not having a first to pay the bountygate penalty would have to give up two second round picks in 2012 and 2013...
Saints wisely extend Ingram in 2015 despite not having a 1000RuYd Season to that point...
Payton breaks up dynamic RB duo Ingram/Kamara, lets Ingram walk to Ravens; taking load off of breakout QB Lamar Jackson rejuvenates Ravens Franchise...

2011 LB Martez Wilson and conditional 2012 sixth-round selection, Payton traded OT Jammal Brown and a fifth round pick in return...

2012 Payton Bountygate

2013 NT John Jenkins (88th overall); Payton traded two 4th round picks (106th & 109th) to MIA; MIA traded 109th pick to Green Bay who took All-Pro OT David Bakhtiari...

2014 WR Brandin Cooks; Payton traded 1st & 3rd round picks to move up, amid Eagles rumours; AZ used No. 27 on S Deone Bucannon and No. 91 on WR John Brown...

2014 LB Ronald Powell; Payton traded RB Darren Sproles to Philadelphia for a fifth round pick and took Powell...

2015 Sean Payton hired Jeff Ireland to rebuild scouting department, evaluate Saints Draft Process; very quickly he transitioned as Director College Scouting and Asst GM...

2015 Saints trade All-Pro TE Jimmy Graham & a 3rd round pick for All-Pro C Max Unger and a 1st round pick; Payton experimenting with a 3-4 defense selects LB Stephone Anthony...

2015 Jeff Ireland engineers trade with former Team MIA, sent WR Kenny Stills for LBer Dannell Ellerbe and 3rd round pick (No. 78), CB P.J. Williams...

2015 Jeff Ireland breaks ice with KC and trades G Ben Grubbs to KC for fifth round pick (no. 154), NT Tyeler Davison...

2015 Damian Swann, 5th round (No. 167 overall), send 6th round pick (No. 187 overall) and 2016 sixth-round selection to the Washington Redskins

2016 SS Vonn Bell, Payton trades up for Bell and send New England a 3rd round pick (No. 78 ), G Joe Thuney and a 4th round pick (No. 112) WR Malcolm Mitchell...

2020 Saints let Vonn Bell walk in Free Agency...

2016 DT David Onyemata, Saints trade 5th round pick (152nd) and a 2017 4th round pick (No. )to WAS and select Onyemata in Round 4 (No. 120)

2020 Saints wisely re-signed Onyemata in Free Agency...

I'll pick up with more Post-Ireland Arrival (2017 NFL Draft) later...

I forgot how bad we hosed Seattle in the Jimmy Graham deal. That wound up to be one of the smartest moves in recent memory.

Rugby Saint II · 04-12-2020, 02:58 PM

Jeff Ireland has done wonders for this organization since he met with Payton at the job fair known as the Senior bowl. Ireland was between jobs and I'm so glad we brought him on board. We can now stock the shelves with rookies and can let our draft picks go when it's time for another contract if we can't afford them.

04-12-2020, 02:13 PM	#1
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy? Originally Posted by AsylumGuido According to Pat Kirwan virtually all trade scenarios have already been discussed between GM's prior to the draft. Especially those in the earlier rounds. These trades are rarely done "on the fly". Usually it's a quick call to say, "Still up for what we discussed?" Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 ...Ever since Ireland came aboard, drafts seem to have improved. Why change your draft approach unless your evaluation process is hindered? Allow me to illustrate... 2008 DT Sedrick Ellis, Payton trades with New England, Saints trade up for DT Sedrick Ellis after failing to make a deal with KC; Belichick took All-Pro LBer Jerrod Mayo. 2010 DT Al Woods, Payton traded with Arizona; the Cardinals take DE O'Brien Schofield a few picks later... 2010 C Matt Tennant, Payton traded 2011 4th round pick with Jacksonville to make this selection in the fifth round... 2011 RB Mark Ingram, Payton traded Saints 2011 Second Round Pick (56th/Shane Verreen) and 2012 First Round Pick (G Kevin Zeitler -Cin) to New England... New England traded the pick with Cincinnati for their first round selection (21st overall) and took Chandler Jones; CIN also got a 3rd for moving back... Pick was especially costly because the Saints not having a first to pay the bountygate penalty would have to give up two second round picks in 2012 and 2013... Saints wisely extend Ingram in 2015 despite not having a 1000RuYd Season to that point... Payton breaks up dynamic RB duo Ingram/Kamara, lets Ingram walk to Ravens; taking load off of breakout QB Lamar Jackson rejuvenates Ravens Franchise... 2011 LB Martez Wilson and conditional 2012 sixth-round selection, Payton traded OT Jammal Brown and a fifth round pick in return... 2012 Payton Bountygate 2013 NT John Jenkins (88th overall); Payton traded two 4th round picks (106th & 109th) to MIA; MIA traded 109th pick to Green Bay who took All-Pro OT David Bakhtiari... 2014 WR Brandin Cooks; Payton traded 1st & 3rd round picks to move up, amid Eagles rumours; AZ used No. 27 on S Deone Bucannon and No. 91 on WR John Brown... 2014 LB Ronald Powell; Payton traded RB Darren Sproles to Philadelphia for a fifth round pick and took Powell... 2015 Sean Payton hired Jeff Ireland to rebuild scouting department, evaluate Saints Draft Process; very quickly he transitioned as Director College Scouting and Asst GM... 2015 Saints trade All-Pro TE Jimmy Graham & a 3rd round pick for All-Pro C Max Unger and a 1st round pick; Payton experimenting with a 3-4 defense selects LB Stephone Anthony... 2015 Jeff Ireland engineers trade with former Team MIA, sent WR Kenny Stills for LBer Dannell Ellerbe and 3rd round pick (No. 78), CB P.J. Williams... 2015 Jeff Ireland breaks ice with KC and trades G Ben Grubbs to KC for fifth round pick (no. 154), NT Tyeler Davison... 2015 Damian Swann, 5th round (No. 167 overall), send 6th round pick (No. 187 overall) and 2016 sixth-round selection to the Washington Redskins 2016 SS Vonn Bell, Payton trades up for Bell and send New England a 3rd round pick (No. 78 ), G Joe Thuney and a 4th round pick (No. 112) WR Malcolm Mitchell... 2020 Saints let Vonn Bell walk in Free Agency... 2016 DT David Onyemata, Saints trade 5th round pick (152nd) and a 2017 4th round pick (No. )to WAS and select Onyemata in Round 4 (No. 120) 2020 Saints wisely re-signed Onyemata in Free Agency... I'll pick up with more Post-Ireland Arrival (2017 NFL Draft) later... saintsfan1976 and Rugby Saint II like this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way... Last edited by jeanpierre; 04-12-2020 at 02:32 PM..

04-12-2020, 03:17 PM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,852	Re: With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy? Originally Posted by jeanpierre Allow me to illustrate... 2008 DT Sedrick Ellis, Payton trades with New England, Saints trade up for DT Sedrick Ellis after failing to make a deal with KC; Belichick took All-Pro LBer Jerrod Mayo. 2010 DT Al Woods, Payton traded with Arizona; the Cardinals take DE O'Brien Schofield a few picks later... 2010 C Matt Tennant, Payton traded 2011 4th round pick with Jacksonville to make this selection in the fifth round... 2011 RB Mark Ingram, Payton traded Saints 2011 Second Round Pick (56th/Shane Verreen) and 2012 First Round Pick (G Kevin Zeitler -Cin) to New England... New England traded the pick with Cincinnati for their first round selection (21st overall) and took Chandler Jones; CIN also got a 3rd for moving back... Pick was especially costly because the Saints not having a first to pay the bountygate penalty would have to give up two second round picks in 2012 and 2013... Saints wisely extend Ingram in 2015 despite not having a 1000RuYd Season to that point... Payton breaks up dynamic RB duo Ingram/Kamara, lets Ingram walk to Ravens; taking load off of breakout QB Lamar Jackson rejuvenates Ravens Franchise... 2011 LB Martez Wilson and conditional 2012 sixth-round selection, Payton traded OT Jammal Brown and a fifth round pick in return... 2012 Payton Bountygate 2013 NT John Jenkins (88th overall); Payton traded two 4th round picks (106th & 109th) to MIA; MIA traded 109th pick to Green Bay who took All-Pro OT David Bakhtiari... 2014 WR Brandin Cooks; Payton traded 1st & 3rd round picks to move up, amid Eagles rumours; AZ used No. 27 on S Deone Bucannon and No. 91 on WR John Brown... 2014 LB Ronald Powell; Payton traded RB Darren Sproles to Philadelphia for a fifth round pick and took Powell... 2015 Sean Payton hired Jeff Ireland to rebuild scouting department, evaluate Saints Draft Process; very quickly he transitioned as Director College Scouting and Asst GM... 2015 Saints trade All-Pro TE Jimmy Graham & a 3rd round pick for All-Pro C Max Unger and a 1st round pick; Payton experimenting with a 3-4 defense selects LB Stephone Anthony... 2015 Jeff Ireland engineers trade with former Team MIA, sent WR Kenny Stills for LBer Dannell Ellerbe and 3rd round pick (No. 78), CB P.J. Williams... 2015 Jeff Ireland breaks ice with KC and trades G Ben Grubbs to KC for fifth round pick (no. 154), NT Tyeler Davison... 2015 Damian Swann, 5th round (No. 167 overall), send 6th round pick (No. 187 overall) and 2016 sixth-round selection to the Washington Redskins 2016 SS Vonn Bell, Payton trades up for Bell and send New England a 3rd round pick (No. 78 ), G Joe Thuney and a 4th round pick (No. 112) WR Malcolm Mitchell... 2020 Saints let Vonn Bell walk in Free Agency... 2016 DT David Onyemata, Saints trade 5th round pick (152nd) and a 2017 4th round pick (No. )to WAS and select Onyemata in Round 4 (No. 120) 2020 Saints wisely re-signed Onyemata in Free Agency... I'll pick up with more Post-Ireland Arrival (2017 NFL Draft) later... Way too much draft detail for me. LOL! As you know, my friend, what happens in the draft happens and is always water under the bridge as far as I am concerned. Now the negotiating parts with other franchises is interesting, but my interest in the players come into play when, and if, they make the team and hit the field. But, of course, I also enjoy the contract and cap implications. Far more interesting to me than the draft itself. I'm not saying I do not enjoy watching the draft these days because I expect every pick to be a goldmine. Oh ... 19-0 Baby! jeanpierre likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

04-12-2020, 03:19 PM	#3
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,066	Re: With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy? Originally Posted by jeanpierre Allow me to illustrate... 2008 DT Sedrick Ellis, Payton trades with New England, Saints trade up for DT Sedrick Ellis after failing to make a deal with KC; Belichick took All-Pro LBer Jerrod Mayo. 2010 DT Al Woods, Payton traded with Arizona; the Cardinals take DE O'Brien Schofield a few picks later... 2010 C Matt Tennant, Payton traded 2011 4th round pick with Jacksonville to make this selection in the fifth round... 2011 RB Mark Ingram, Payton traded Saints 2011 Second Round Pick (56th/Shane Verreen) and 2012 First Round Pick (G Kevin Zeitler -Cin) to New England... New England traded the pick with Cincinnati for their first round selection (21st overall) and took Chandler Jones; CIN also got a 3rd for moving back... Pick was especially costly because the Saints not having a first to pay the bountygate penalty would have to give up two second round picks in 2012 and 2013... Saints wisely extend Ingram in 2015 despite not having a 1000RuYd Season to that point... Payton breaks up dynamic RB duo Ingram/Kamara, lets Ingram walk to Ravens; taking load off of breakout QB Lamar Jackson rejuvenates Ravens Franchise... 2011 LB Martez Wilson and conditional 2012 sixth-round selection, Payton traded OT Jammal Brown and a fifth round pick in return... 2012 Payton Bountygate 2013 NT John Jenkins (88th overall); Payton traded two 4th round picks (106th & 109th) to MIA; MIA traded 109th pick to Green Bay who took All-Pro OT David Bakhtiari... 2014 WR Brandin Cooks; Payton traded 1st & 3rd round picks to move up, amid Eagles rumours; AZ used No. 27 on S Deone Bucannon and No. 91 on WR John Brown... 2014 LB Ronald Powell; Payton traded RB Darren Sproles to Philadelphia for a fifth round pick and took Powell... 2015 Sean Payton hired Jeff Ireland to rebuild scouting department, evaluate Saints Draft Process; very quickly he transitioned as Director College Scouting and Asst GM... 2015 Saints trade All-Pro TE Jimmy Graham & a 3rd round pick for All-Pro C Max Unger and a 1st round pick; Payton experimenting with a 3-4 defense selects LB Stephone Anthony... 2015 Jeff Ireland engineers trade with former Team MIA, sent WR Kenny Stills for LBer Dannell Ellerbe and 3rd round pick (No. 78), CB P.J. Williams... 2015 Jeff Ireland breaks ice with KC and trades G Ben Grubbs to KC for fifth round pick (no. 154), NT Tyeler Davison... 2015 Damian Swann, 5th round (No. 167 overall), send 6th round pick (No. 187 overall) and 2016 sixth-round selection to the Washington Redskins 2016 SS Vonn Bell, Payton trades up for Bell and send New England a 3rd round pick (No. 78 ), G Joe Thuney and a 4th round pick (No. 112) WR Malcolm Mitchell... 2020 Saints let Vonn Bell walk in Free Agency... 2016 DT David Onyemata, Saints trade 5th round pick (152nd) and a 2017 4th round pick (No. )to WAS and select Onyemata in Round 4 (No. 120) 2020 Saints wisely re-signed Onyemata in Free Agency... I'll pick up with more Post-Ireland Arrival (2017 NFL Draft) later... I forgot how bad we hosed Seattle in the Jimmy Graham deal. That wound up to be one of the smartest moves in recent memory. jeanpierre likes this.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,066

04-12-2020, 02:58 PM	#4
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,200	Re: With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy? Jeff Ireland has done wonders for this organization since he met with Payton at the job fair known as the Senior bowl. Ireland was between jobs and I'm so glad we brought him on board. We can now stock the shelves with rookies and can let our draft picks go when it's time for another contract if we can't afford them.

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