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-   -   With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy? (https://blackandgold.com/saints/97566-questions-about-otas-rookie-minicamp-could-saints-change-their-draft-strategy.html)

The Dude 04-09-2020 10:21 PM

With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy?
 
With the uncertainty of offseason team activities do you think the Saints draft a little differently than they would otherwise? I could see how it may be hard for skill position players who may normally have an immediate impact to catch up to speed of the NFL. I have a feeling we will see a lot of draft day trades for other current players than we have in years past. Especially since we are in a win now mode. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

burningmetal 04-09-2020 10:29 PM

Re: With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy?
 
I think if there is a change in draft strategy, it will be because they just want to try something new. I don't think the current circumstances should change anything.

Every team is going to be equally behind, and you still have to be looking at setting up your future, as you draft. So I don't know why this would force a team to do anything other than draft according to the best players available on their board.

saintsfan1976 04-10-2020 08:41 AM

Re: With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by burningmetal (Post 884748)
I think if there is a change in draft strategy, it will be because they just want to try something new. I don't think the current circumstances should change anything.

Every team is going to be equally behind, and you still have to be looking at setting up your future, as you draft. So I don't know why this would force a team to do anything other than draft according to the best players available on their board.

Disagree. This is an elite league. Just "trying something new" will get you fired.

Evaluating a player in person, under your controlled scenarios is essential. Especially regarding intangibles, injuries, IQ and compatibility.

Not having several opportunities to evaluate a player in person will absolutely change a team's draft philosophy.

It's been quoted coaches will pick safe. Most will. Maybe teams will take a chance but not on someone they're not already familiar with.

Rugby Saint II 04-10-2020 03:46 PM

Re: With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy?
 
I anticipate fewer trades than usual from Payton this year. It's a new system for drafting and we won't have the whole team together to make things happen on short notice. Trades may take too much time unless both teams discussed it before the draft.

AsylumGuido 04-11-2020 07:48 AM

Re: With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 884816)
I anticipate fewer trades than usual from Payton this year. It's a new system for drafting and we won't have the whole team together to make things happen on short notice. Trades may take too much time unless both teams discussed it before the draft.

According to Pat Kirwan virtually all trade scenarios have already been discussed between GM's prior to the draft. Especially those in the earlier rounds. These trades are rarely done "on the fly". Usually it's a quick call to say, "Still up for what we discussed?"

burningmetal 04-11-2020 09:46 AM

Re: With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 (Post 884778)
Disagree. This is an elite league. Just "trying something new" will get you fired.

Evaluating a player in person, under your controlled scenarios is essential. Especially regarding intangibles, injuries, IQ and compatibility.

Not having several opportunities to evaluate a player in person will absolutely change a team's draft philosophy.

It's been quoted coaches will pick safe. Most will. Maybe teams will take a chance but not on someone they're not already familiar with.

........?



You don't seem to have gotten my point, and I'm not sure I get yours. I didn't say that they SHOULD try something new, I'm responding to The Dude's question, and saying that IF they draft differently it won't be because of the covid circumstances, it will just be because they want to try something new. And by that, I'm not suggesting they'd just whimsically throw darts at the wall, or pin the donkey to make their picks, as you seem to be under the impression that I was saying.

I'm saying that if they do something along the lines of what The Dude was suggesting -making draft day trades for veteran players, as opposed to trading draft picks to move up- then it will be because they decided they wanted to go with more veterans (perhaps to expedite the improvement of the roster for one last run with Drew?) and not because of anything else.

I do NOT foresee them going that route. But regardless of how they draft, I see no reason why this situation would MAKE them draft "differently". What you are describing is how the evaluation process is different this time around. I never disputed that. I didn't even bring it up. My point is that, just because you weren't able to go through your normal evaluation process, doesn't mean your strategy in the draft changes. You have less hands on information than you otherwise would have, but whatever information you DO have, you will establish your prospect board on that, and draft accordingly.

Every team is in the same boat. But the draft is still going to be 7 rounds. So, what? Are teams just not going to draft players? Everyone can't trade all their picks. See what I'm saying? There's no difference in strategy. If you can make a trade for a veteran who makes sense in the makeup of your roster, you do it, just like you would any other year.

Rugby Saint II 04-11-2020 01:34 PM

Re: With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 884866)
According to Pat Kirwan virtually all trade scenarios have already been discussed between GM's prior to the draft. Especially those in the earlier rounds. These trades are rarely done "on the fly". Usually it's a quick call to say, "Still up for what we discussed?"

But....but....that's not how Kevin Costner did trades on the movie Draft Day! Are you sure about that Guido??? You may want to check your sauces. :doh:

AsylumGuido 04-12-2020 11:18 AM

Re: With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II (Post 884891)
But....but....that's not how Kevin Costner did trades on the movie Draft Day! Are you sure about that Guido??? You may want to check your sauces. :doh:

LOL! I remember Kirwan talking about how unrealistic that movie was a couple of years ago. I wish I could access that show again. I've searched but can't find it.

saintsfan1976 04-12-2020 12:18 PM

Re: With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by burningmetal (Post 884871)
........?



You don't seem to have gotten my point, and I'm not sure I get yours. I didn't say that they SHOULD try something new, I'm responding to The Dude's question, and saying that IF they draft differently it won't be because of the covid circumstances, it will just be because they want to try something new. And by that, I'm not suggesting they'd just whimsically throw darts at the wall, or pin the donkey to make their picks, as you seem to be under the impression that I was saying.

I'm saying that if they do something along the lines of what The Dude was suggesting -making draft day trades for veteran players, as opposed to trading draft picks to move up- then it will be because they decided they wanted to go with more veterans (perhaps to expedite the improvement of the roster for one last run with Drew?) and not because of anything else.

I do NOT foresee them going that route. But regardless of how they draft, I see no reason why this situation would MAKE them draft "differently". What you are describing is how the evaluation process is different this time around. I never disputed that. I didn't even bring it up. My point is that, just because you weren't able to go through your normal evaluation process, doesn't mean your strategy in the draft changes. You have less hands on information than you otherwise would have, but whatever information you DO have, you will establish your prospect board on that, and draft accordingly.

Every team is in the same boat. But the draft is still going to be 7 rounds. So, what? Are teams just not going to draft players? Everyone can't trade all their picks. See what I'm saying? There's no difference in strategy. If you can make a trade for a veteran who makes sense in the makeup of your roster, you do it, just like you would any other year.

If they're trying something new, it's likely because of COVID circumstances.

Ever since Ireland came aboard, drafts seem to have improved. Why change your draft approach unless your evaluation process is hindered?

jeanpierre 04-12-2020 02:13 PM

Re: With questions about OTAs and rookie minicamp could the Saints change their draft strategy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 884866)
According to Pat Kirwan virtually all trade scenarios have already been discussed between GM's prior to the draft. Especially those in the earlier rounds. These trades are rarely done "on the fly". Usually it's a quick call to say, "Still up for what we discussed?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 (Post 884938)
...Ever since Ireland came aboard, drafts seem to have improved. Why change your draft approach unless your evaluation process is hindered?

Allow me to illustrate...
  • 2008 DT Sedrick Ellis, Payton trades with New England, Saints trade up for DT Sedrick Ellis after failing to make a deal with KC; Belichick took All-Pro LBer Jerrod Mayo.

  • 2010 DT Al Woods, Payton traded with Arizona; the Cardinals take DE O'Brien Schofield a few picks later...

  • 2010 C Matt Tennant, Payton traded 2011 4th round pick with Jacksonville to make this selection in the fifth round...

  • 2011 RB Mark Ingram, Payton traded Saints 2011 Second Round Pick (56th/Shane Verreen) and 2012 First Round Pick (G Kevin Zeitler -Cin) to New England...
    New England traded the pick with Cincinnati for their first round selection (21st overall) and took Chandler Jones; CIN also got a 3rd for moving back...
    Pick was especially costly because the Saints not having a first to pay the bountygate penalty would have to give up two second round picks in 2012 and 2013...
    Saints wisely extend Ingram in 2015 despite not having a 1000RuYd Season to that point...
    Payton breaks up dynamic RB duo Ingram/Kamara, lets Ingram walk to Ravens; taking load off of breakout QB Lamar Jackson rejuvenates Ravens Franchise...
  • 2011 LB Martez Wilson and conditional 2012 sixth-round selection, Payton traded OT Jammal Brown and a fifth round pick in return...

  • 2012 Payton Bountygate

  • 2013 NT John Jenkins (88th overall); Payton traded two 4th round picks (106th & 109th) to MIA; MIA traded 109th pick to Green Bay who took All-Pro OT David Bakhtiari...

  • 2014 WR Brandin Cooks; Payton traded 1st & 3rd round picks to move up, amid Eagles rumours; AZ used No. 27 on S Deone Bucannon and No. 91 on WR John Brown...

  • 2014 LB Ronald Powell; Payton traded RB Darren Sproles to Philadelphia for a fifth round pick and took Powell...

  • 2015 Sean Payton hired Jeff Ireland to rebuild scouting department, evaluate Saints Draft Process; very quickly he transitioned as Director College Scouting and Asst GM...

  • 2015 Saints trade All-Pro TE Jimmy Graham & a 3rd round pick for All-Pro C Max Unger and a 1st round pick; Payton experimenting with a 3-4 defense selects LB Stephone Anthony...

  • 2015 Jeff Ireland engineers trade with former Team MIA, sent WR Kenny Stills for LBer Dannell Ellerbe and 3rd round pick (No. 78), CB P.J. Williams...

  • 2015 Jeff Ireland breaks ice with KC and trades G Ben Grubbs to KC for fifth round pick (no. 154), NT Tyeler Davison...

  • 2015 Damian Swann, 5th round (No. 167 overall), send 6th round pick (No. 187 overall) and 2016 sixth-round selection to the Washington Redskins

  • 2016 SS Vonn Bell, Payton trades up for Bell and send New England a 3rd round pick (No. 78 ), G Joe Thuney and a 4th round pick (No. 112) WR Malcolm Mitchell...
    2020 Saints let Vonn Bell walk in Free Agency...
  • 2016 DT David Onyemata, Saints trade 5th round pick (152nd) and a 2017 4th round pick (No. )to WAS and select Onyemata in Round 4 (No. 120)

    2020 Saints wisely re-signed Onyemata in Free Agency...

    I'll pick up with more Post-Ireland Arrival (2017 NFL Draft) later...


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