In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

I just couldn't make myself open the video. He's going to have to show me he's kind of normal and has a good feel for the offense. Otherwise, he's just another God awful player we brought on board to try and fix.....good luck with that!

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

I still have hope for him. I was a complete idiot at his age and Im at least functionable now. If its true that he took less to learn behind Drew that shows maturity.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

IDK Rugby,

You just don't throw for over 5k yards & 30TD's without any hope. Not at this level of football. More importantly Jameis is low risk and came cheap. A lot of those mental mistakes are correctable.

Remember Vinny Testaverde'? Former 1st rounder. Big guy, big arm but lots of mental errors (had over 35 ints as a rookie with Tampa). Then later in his career here comes Bill Parcells (Jets) who actually help salvaged his career. The Tuna saw the negatives, positives and studied film. Altered the play book to his strengths and minimized those low percentage throws. Worked to his advantage and become a very serviceable QB.

Sean P and Bill are still close friends ... I'm sure they had that old school conversation. Not saying Jameis will turn into Pat Mahommes in New Orleans however I think there is still hope for him to become a successful NFL QB.

Coach him up :bng:

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

The only reason we beat Tampa last year is because of Winston. Maybe Payton can fix him but I won’t have respect for him until I see something on the field and off.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

He's talking the talk...now it's time to see if he can walk. He had tons of talent and an equal amount of character flaws to go with it. Listening to him, it sounds like he may have finally gotten his head screwed on straight. Only time will tell.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

So is he better than Scam Newton?

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

He is a better fit in New Orleans than Cam. As others have mentioned, he's saying all the right things. The fact that he saw the writing on the wall and took a backup role on a team that could actually teach him something is good.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

Better? That's probably debatable? But I think Winston is actually healthier and his style of play will keep him healthier. Scam is a running QB who has taken a beating. Like most running QBs, his body is going to decide when he retires, or get's retired when owners see the risk-reward-drama just ain't worth it.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

Jameis Winston has all the talent in the world. If he quit making dumb decisions, he'd be great. I'm hoping Payton can get him out of his habits. Winston does so many things well, he just makes the one mistake you can't as a QB.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

Jamis Winston is in his 6th season, he is what he is. We may not know what that is yet.

You can't change the way a person thinks and processes. I am sure some of you rolled your eyes (which proves my point :p)... Look at you and all around you, some people here never admit they are not correct and some do so with merely one rational reply. You cant change that. You might change their opinion on a subject but not the way they think and the way Jamis thinks or doesn't is what get him into trouble.

It takes maturation to develop reasoning and the objective understanding otherwise known as intellect. Maybe something in Jamis's life changed his process in the last year or so but that has to come from within. 26 years old is not considered within the 12-22 +/- impressionable years. It is quite possible that something happened to change Jamis into a bad decision machine (Heisman ego) and he could have come back to earth. Tampa Bay has always been a sh1tshow from the neck up and the NFL sending first round draft picks to the biggest sh1tshows in the league is in fact setting them up to fail.

Beyond that, why does Jamis Winston need a defense. New team, new season, new start..

...and btw, you cant have a gunslinger spectrum without Favre mentioned lol.

Welcome to the team Jamis. Please shut up and play. :bng:

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

Hope the Lasik helps.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

I won't disagree that you can't change the way a person thinks, in the sense that you can't change that person by yourself. But it is absolutely true that you can influence a person to introspect and ultimately come to a realization that change is necessary. Whether they ever admit it, out loud, is irrelevant.

Everyone has to make the choice to change, so we agree in that regard. But it helps to get a nudge in the right direction from a person you respect. I'm not sure anyone on the Saints coaching staff is that type of mentor, but maybe Brees is. If we can take what Winston says seriously, he has already been steered in the right direction. But, as others have stated, it remains to be seen if his public statements translate to reality.

At any rate, he's just the backup right now, and I don't know who was going to be any better in that role who was available. So if he shows no signs of maturity, on or off the field, over the next year, then he walks. So I don't see this as a big risk. But there is at least potential for a substantial reward.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

^^^^^^^^^^ This right here ^^^^^^^.

Say that louder for the ones in the back who may have missed it.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

I agree with every word of what you said. Trying to process that thought now. It's pretty damned frustrating when I can't disagree with you on something. It's a cross I have to bear.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

Well, when you actually listen to what I have to say, instead of searching for a reason to disagree, you'd be surprised at how much you might not despise me.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

"you can't fix stupid"

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

So in stead of just agreeing with me, you say you won’t disagree with me and say what I said differently lol. :cool:

See that part about maturation and objective understanding? That has to happen before someone is open to anything other than what he has mind set on. Either that or a life event, the loss of a loved one or job can disillusion someone quickly sometimes.

Thank you for opening with not disagreeing with me, I know that couldn’t have been easy. I’m not laughing at you, I’m laughing with you. :bng:

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

In all fairness I am not the person I was at 26 or 30 or even 35. It takes some longer than others to get their **** together. I was an absolute crazy person at 26. I look back at some of the decisions I made back then and wonder how in the hell I rationalized some of my actions.
Hopefully it comes to Winston sooner rather than later. It’s sad to think about someone like him looking back in old age regretting all the talent he wasted.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

I both agree and disagree with this post at the same time. While I don't think you can change how someone approaches the QB position, I do think you can make adjustments to how a player looks at a particular situation. For example, you can coach a player to see a particular window differently. This can be done through heavy film study and understanding how defenses work better. You can teach QB's to read defenses better. You can make a guy start to see "well this guy is here, so if he goes here, then perhaps it's not a good idea to throw there". I don't think you can change a QB's mentality, but you can change their logical processes to be a bit more efficient.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

You cant MAKE anyone see anything, they have to be open to learning. We aren't talking about education here, we are talking about character modification... in any event the person still has to reach a point internally that they are open.

Teens and addicts: Until they reach a point in life where they are susceptible to suggestion they don't listen.

Another thing, and I learned this from a psychotherapist, you cant help a person that doesn't have the intellect or intelligence to understand what you are trying to do. (the academic way of saying you cant fix stupid).

With all of that said, in the interest of Winston only being a back up and there being no reason to discuss him... You and Burning are correct, people can be made to learn against their will. :bng:

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

There's a reason I said I won't disagree, as opposed to just saying "I agree", and the words that directly followed provided the context as to why.

From your perspective, at least the way you worded it (since you often say I misunderstood you, even though I can only understand things as they are written, and can't read minds who apparently always mean something different from what they actually say) is that you can't change the way a person thinks. Those are your direct words. And, as I explained, I only agree in the sense that you can't make up that person's mind for them. But I don't agree entirely, because you CAN influence the way a person thinks.

Yes, I read the part about maturation. Duly noted. Does maturation come ONLY when you are ready, by way of some life changing experience, and not by way of any sort of outside mentorship? That appears to be your position, and in my opinion, that is subjective reasoning.

People who go through life with bad influences, tend to turn into bad people. People who have positive or "good" influences tend to become "good" people, at least in terms of how the world defines someone to be basically good. The ability to "reason" is God given. HOW you reason is shaped by your influences. Just take a look at the political spectrum. People of similar ages, with similar education levels, but vastly different levels of reasoning, morals, beliefs and behavior.

What you are predisposed to impacts your way of thinking. And when someone is set in their ways, it's difficult to steer them back in the right direction. It is, however, possible.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

I've never once heard anything bad about Winston in regard to working hard and trying to learn and get better. Everything I've heard about Winston is that he was one of the hardest workers on the Bucs. I think there is this misconception about him for some reason by some people that he is a slouch and doesn't give it his all. From everything I've read on him, this couldn't be further from the truth. All of the first hand stories on Winston are that he works hard, is open to learn, and does his part. Yes he is a bit of a quirky character, but that is irrelevant and shouldn't be used to develop a bias against him.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

Believe it or not, Jameis HAS matured. His "record" has been clean since 2016 .. even started a family and has really worked to take care of his body over the last couple of seasons.

I would certainly understand if he had done stupid s**** last year but some keep bringing up his past from 4 or more years ago.

People mature and grow. Apparently Jameis is already doing that.

Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston
 

Amen to that.