4th and 15 vs Onside kick

ScottF · 06-01-2020, 11:48 AM

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...l_topeditorial

I am surprised someone even brought this up. Insane idea

SaintFanInATLHELL · 06-01-2020, 01:59 PM

The biggest problem I see with that plan is all the defensive penalties that can result in 1st downs without actually reaching a first down. Defensive holding in particular.

Offenses would simply design plays that force defensive holding with no real hope of gaining 15 yards.

So unless there was some way on a penalty to get only the yards but not the first down, I'd be against the idea.

SFIAH

AsylumGuido · 06-01-2020, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

The biggest problem I see with that plan is all the defensive penalties that can result in 1st downs without actually reaching a first down. Defensive holding in particular.

Offenses would simply design plays that force defensive holding with no real hope of gaining 15 yards.

So unless there was some way on a penalty to get only the yards but not the first down, I'd be against the idea.

SFIAH

Those concerns were among many others raised on NFL Radio this past week. The other being that the ball can be advanced on the 4th and 15, but almost always is down at the point of recovery with an onside kick. That recovery in no way guarantees any further success toward scoring. The 4th and 15 play could very well result in a TD immediately if a tackle or two can be broken. Then the team could attempt another 4th and 15 following that score and bust another long TD.

Keep in mind these plays would be held without a running clock, therefore it is feasible that a team down by 23 points with 15 seconds remaining could win in regulation by scoring a TD, a 2 point conversion, a 4th & 15 TD, another 2 point conversion, another 4th & 15 TD, and another 2 point conversion, thus scoring 24 points and winning by one.

stickman · 06-01-2020, 06:11 PM

I think it's an interesting idea, but as others have said too many issues to work out.

I also think if the NFL is kicking this idea around (no pun intended) they will eventually settle on something other than kickoffs. It's come up too often.

The Dude · 06-02-2020, 12:50 PM

The refs don’t understand the rules as they are now and the last thing they need is a new rule for them not to enforce.
This gives the refs a lot of power to determine the outcome of a game when they decide to pick and choose when they are going to enforce Penalties on these plays.

vpheughan · 06-02-2020, 02:16 PM

Easy Solution. Team wants an onside kick, filed goal with the ball kicked from the 50 yard line. Kick good, team retains possession at the 50. A miss results in a dead play with the other team taking possession at the 50. It would be a timed play just like a kickoff.

K Major · 06-03-2020, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by The Dude

The refs don’t understand the rules as they are now and the last thing they need is a new rule for them not to enforce.
This gives the refs a lot of power to determine the outcome of a game when they decide to pick and choose when they are going to enforce Penalties on these plays.

+1.

The league can't even enforce the current rules we have in place. This sounds too gimmicky.

Let's leave everything the way it is now. No need to turn into Arean league football.

Audiotom · 06-03-2020, 10:49 AM

How do you deny the receiving team the opportunity to possess the ball?

K Major · 06-03-2020, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

The biggest problem I see with that plan is all the defensive penalties that can result in 1st downs without actually reaching a first down. Defensive holding in particular.

SFIAH

This would be my biggest issue right here.

Becomes an easy out and opportunity for a team. One fluke pass int ticky/tacky call & boom, new ball game.

Rugby Saint II · 06-03-2020, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Audiotom

How do you deny the receiving team the opportunity to possess the ball?

My thoughts exactly. It's just another way to stop blowout games where viewers change channels. It all about the almighty dollar. Sponsors want you to see every commercial and the NFL is determined to keep games close.

06-01-2020, 11:48 AM	#1
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	4th and 15 vs Onside kick https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...l_topeditorial I am surprised someone even brought this up. Insane idea

06-01-2020, 01:59 PM	#2
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Re: 4th and 15 vs Onside kick The biggest problem I see with that plan is all the defensive penalties that can result in 1st downs without actually reaching a first down. Defensive holding in particular. Offenses would simply design plays that force defensive holding with no real hope of gaining 15 yards. So unless there was some way on a penalty to get only the yards but not the first down, I'd be against the idea. SFIAH Rugby Saint II and K Major like this.

06-01-2020, 02:57 PM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: 4th and 15 vs Onside kick Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL The biggest problem I see with that plan is all the defensive penalties that can result in 1st downs without actually reaching a first down. Defensive holding in particular. Offenses would simply design plays that force defensive holding with no real hope of gaining 15 yards. So unless there was some way on a penalty to get only the yards but not the first down, I'd be against the idea. SFIAH Those concerns were among many others raised on NFL Radio this past week. The other being that the ball can be advanced on the 4th and 15, but almost always is down at the point of recovery with an onside kick. That recovery in no way guarantees any further success toward scoring. The 4th and 15 play could very well result in a TD immediately if a tackle or two can be broken. Then the team could attempt another 4th and 15 following that score and bust another long TD. Keep in mind these plays would be held without a running clock, therefore it is feasible that a team down by 23 points with 15 seconds remaining could win in regulation by scoring a TD, a 2 point conversion, a 4th & 15 TD, another 2 point conversion, another 4th & 15 TD, and another 2 point conversion, thus scoring 24 points and winning by one.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

06-01-2020, 06:11 PM	#4
stickman 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Gonzales, LA Posts: 1,597	Re: 4th and 15 vs Onside kick I think it's an interesting idea, but as others have said too many issues to work out. I also think if the NFL is kicking this idea around (no pun intended) they will eventually settle on something other than kickoffs. It's come up too often.

06-02-2020, 12:50 PM	#5
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,006	Re: 4th and 15 vs Onside kick The refs don’t understand the rules as they are now and the last thing they need is a new rule for them not to enforce. This gives the refs a lot of power to determine the outcome of a game when they decide to pick and choose when they are going to enforce Penalties on these plays. jnormand, Rugby Saint II, K Major and 1 others like this.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,006

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06-02-2020, 02:16 PM	#6
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,499	Re: 4th and 15 vs Onside kick Easy Solution. Team wants an onside kick, filed goal with the ball kicked from the 50 yard line. Kick good, team retains possession at the 50. A miss results in a dead play with the other team taking possession at the 50. It would be a timed play just like a kickoff.
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,499

06-03-2020, 09:55 AM	#7
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,035 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 4th and 15 vs Onside kick Originally Posted by The Dude The refs don’t understand the rules as they are now and the last thing they need is a new rule for them not to enforce. This gives the refs a lot of power to determine the outcome of a game when they decide to pick and choose when they are going to enforce Penalties on these plays. +1. The league can't even enforce the current rules we have in place. This sounds too gimmicky. Let's leave everything the way it is now. No need to turn into Arean league football.

06-03-2020, 10:49 AM	#8
Audiotom 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 1,094 Blog Entries: 1	Re: 4th and 15 vs Onside kick How do you deny the receiving team the opportunity to possess the ball? Rugby Saint II likes this.

06-03-2020, 11:24 AM	#9
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,035 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 4th and 15 vs Onside kick Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL The biggest problem I see with that plan is all the defensive penalties that can result in 1st downs without actually reaching a first down. Defensive holding in particular. SFIAH This would be my biggest issue right here. Becomes an easy out and opportunity for a team. One fluke pass int ticky/tacky call & boom, new ball game.

06-03-2020, 02:44 PM	#10
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,727	Re: 4th and 15 vs Onside kick Originally Posted by Audiotom How do you deny the receiving team the opportunity to possess the ball? My thoughts exactly. It's just another way to stop blowout games where viewers change channels. It all about the almighty dollar. Sponsors want you to see every commercial and the NFL is determined to keep games close.