NFL To Allow Players To Wear Helmet Decals For Victims Like George Floyd et al

Rugby Saint II · 08-05-2020, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Conflating two different things. Everything about George Floyd is about the day that he died. It would not have mattered if he was a serial killer earlier in his life. Nothing he did on the day he died deserved the torture and death he received under the knee of that police officer.

No unarmed, cuffed person deserves that treatment no matter who they are or what they did. That's what folks who are calling for change are motivated by.

He's not a hero. He's a victim.

SFIAH

But he set himself up for failure by not cooperating with the police. But I guess that's what happens to ex-cons. Ex-con lives matter. To me all lives matter but I'm not supposed to say that because I'm offending someone.

Why do black people call each other the N word and yet it is offensive from whites? Is it offensive if a native American says it? What about Hispanics? We've got to stop the double standard.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 08-05-2020, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

But he set himself up for failure by not cooperating with the police. But I guess that's what happens to ex-cons. Ex-con lives matter. To me all lives matter but I'm not supposed to say that because I'm offending someone.

This attitude is exactly what's wrong with some policing. Floyd was no threat to 4 armed police officers. The man was unarmed and cuffed. There was no reason for him to be prone with 3 grown men laying their bodyweight into him. Victim blaming simply doesn't work here.

Why do black people call each other the N word and yet it is offensive from whites? Is it offensive if a native American says it? What about Hispanics? We've got to stop the double standard.

None of this has anything to do with police brutality. So it's just a distraction from the issue at hand.

Point me to one thing and I'll go back to being quiet. Show me one instance where police shot an unarmed white guy in the back (Walter Scott, South Carolina, 2015), or choked to death pleading "I can't breathe" (Eric Garner, 2014), or a white child playing in a park gunned down by police (Tamir Rice, 2014), or a white woman gunned down by police in her own home while asleep (Brionna Taylor, 2020), or a white guy gunned down at a traffic stop while trying to explain possession of a legal firearm in the car (Philando Castille, 2016). Or an unarmed naked man being gunned down (Anthony Hill, Air Force Vet, 2015). I'll wait...

It's exactly the "must be an ex-con" or "they say the n-word to one another" or "that music" or whatever cultual reference that makes Black people "the other" that is the trigger for such brutality and death. Presuming guilt, performing the execution, then blaming the victim. This is a cycle that needs to stop.

SFIAH

jnormand · 08-05-2020, 08:24 PM

I think the police should just argue the same thing as black people. "You don't know what's it's like being....a police officer. You don't understand what's it's like to have people look at you and hate you just because of the color of your uniform. You don't know what's it's like to have people treat you differently because of the color of your uniform. Because some cop on the other side of the United States made a bad decision or got scared and ****ed up. You don't know what it's like to be judged by people just because of your occupation. You don't know what it's like to have people want to hurt you or your family because of your occupation. "

SaintFanInATLHELL · 08-05-2020, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by jnormand

I think the police should just argue the same thing as black people. "You don't know what's it's like being....a police officer. You don't understand what's it's like to have people look at you and hate you just because of the color of your uniform. You don't know what's it's like to have people treat you differently because of the color of your uniform. Because some cop on the other side of the United States made a bad decision or got scared and ****ed up. You don't know what it's like to be judged by people just because of your occupation. You don't know what it's like to have people want to hurt you or your family because of your occupation. "

That is absolutely true for 99.9% of officers out there. They just want to come in, do their job, go home, and be with their families just like the rest of us. And nothing that I've pointed out so far does not negate the fact that there are bad actors of all stripes.

The difference is that police officers have a state sponsored mandate that allows for them to apply force, up to and including lethal force, against the public. With that mandate comes the responsibility and the restraint needed not to kill people in the public unless they are in fact in a situation where their lives are threatened. And a civilian, especially an unarmed one, who happens to not immediately comply with an order from an officer isn't immediately a threat to the life of that officer.

And unfortunately it happens everywhere. So while this week it's police in Aurora, Colorado taking a 6 year old and her family out of a car, cuffing her, and forcing her to the ground, next week it'll be somewhere else where someone's brother, father, sister, or aunt will be subject to similar or worse treatment. Does anyone expect that child to ever trust a police officer again?

Bad actors in uniform need to be stopped. When there are tasers, guns, radio, backup, and an entire force available to you, it's not too much to ask not to mistreat unarmed civilians, especially ones who are cuffed, no matter how they are acting.

SFIAH

saintsfan1976 · 08-06-2020, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Bad actors in uniform need to be stopped. When there are tasers, guns, radio, backup, and an entire force available to you, it's not too much to ask not to mistreat unarmed civilians, especially ones who are cuffed, no matter how they are acting.

SFIAH

This sums it up perfectly in my mind.

Police forces don't need less funding they need more.
- More training
- More qualified people
- More technical skills
- More pay
- More professionals who can approach and handle situations without escalating

Communities need more also.
- Better leaders
- More focused programs
- More accountability for others in individual communities

saintsfan1976 · 08-06-2020, 10:33 AM

I also see the side of officers who are worked to death for minimal pay.

I also empathize with the job itself. One minute you're helping a lost child reunite with a frantic parent, the next you're in danger of losing your life.

There's no other job like it and I believe many of us take that for granted.

pinch · 08-06-2020, 10:37 AM

None of this has anything to do with police brutality. So it's just a distraction from the issue at hand.

And police brutality has nothing to do with giving black people free stuff and preferential treatment. But we all know that's the ultimate goal of 99% of the people pushing for "reform".

vpheughan · 08-06-2020, 11:37 AM

"More than 85% of police contracts in major cities around the country include language limiting oversight or discipline of officers, according to an analysis by Campaign Zero, a criminal justice reform advocacy group."

They act as if they are above the law because in some instances they are.
A little research will reveal many more examples of the ones listed below.

Officers even have been rehired after being fired for high-profile fatal shootings. In Miami, an arbitrator in 2014 ordered the police department to reinstate detective Reynaldo Goyos, who fatally shot an unarmed man in a shooting that a department review board ruled was "unjustified."

In Oakland, officer Hector Jimenez won his job back in arbitration in 2011 after being fired for fatally shooting two unarmed men in separate incidents within a year, shooting one in the back.

pinch · 08-06-2020, 11:41 AM

If the black people want to go to college for free then I'm down with that.

Why not just skip that and give them the best jobs? Even if they're not qualified?

How about we just give the your job since you've treated them so unfairly? Or how about your kids' potential jobs when they get out of college since they were born white?

Rugby Saint II · 08-06-2020, 02:34 PM

I am coming around to the BLM movement. But we have to stop living by double standards with the degrading lyrics of black music. The messages aren't the same as a rock band, country, or Blue grass. Black music glorifies violence. If I'm supposed to change my mind then I need something in return. Change the messages and we can change the culture to a better future for everyone. And quit rioting for God's sake. That is not a good message either.

Bill Cosby was making great strides calling out these bad cultural influences before he went to jail. People were actually listening and discussing his moral views and how to bring the black people up with open and honest discussions.

08-05-2020, 12:01 PM	#1
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,153	Re: NFL To Allow Players To Wear Helmet Decals For Victims Like George Floyd et al Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Conflating two different things. Everything about George Floyd is about the day that he died. It would not have mattered if he was a serial killer earlier in his life. Nothing he did on the day he died deserved the torture and death he received under the knee of that police officer. No unarmed, cuffed person deserves that treatment no matter who they are or what they did. That's what folks who are calling for change are motivated by. He's not a hero. He's a victim. SFIAH But he set himself up for failure by not cooperating with the police. But I guess that's what happens to ex-cons. Ex-con lives matter. To me all lives matter but I'm not supposed to say that because I'm offending someone. Why do black people call each other the N word and yet it is offensive from whites? Is it offensive if a native American says it? What about Hispanics? We've got to stop the double standard. jnormand likes this.

08-05-2020, 07:37 PM	#2
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: NFL To Allow Players To Wear Helmet Decals For Victims Like George Floyd et al Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II But he set himself up for failure by not cooperating with the police. But I guess that's what happens to ex-cons. Ex-con lives matter. To me all lives matter but I'm not supposed to say that because I'm offending someone. This attitude is exactly what's wrong with some policing. Floyd was no threat to 4 armed police officers. The man was unarmed and cuffed. There was no reason for him to be prone with 3 grown men laying their bodyweight into him. Victim blaming simply doesn't work here. Why do black people call each other the N word and yet it is offensive from whites? Is it offensive if a native American says it? What about Hispanics? We've got to stop the double standard. None of this has anything to do with police brutality. So it's just a distraction from the issue at hand. Point me to one thing and I'll go back to being quiet. Show me one instance where police shot an unarmed white guy in the back (Walter Scott, South Carolina, 2015), or choked to death pleading "I can't breathe" (Eric Garner, 2014), or a white child playing in a park gunned down by police (Tamir Rice, 2014), or a white woman gunned down by police in her own home while asleep (Brionna Taylor, 2020), or a white guy gunned down at a traffic stop while trying to explain possession of a legal firearm in the car (Philando Castille, 2016). Or an unarmed naked man being gunned down (Anthony Hill, Air Force Vet, 2015). I'll wait... It's exactly the "must be an ex-con" or "they say the n-word to one another" or "that music" or whatever cultual reference that makes Black people "the other" that is the trigger for such brutality and death. Presuming guilt, performing the execution, then blaming the victim. This is a cycle that needs to stop. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

08-05-2020, 08:24 PM	#3
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,761	Re: NFL To Allow Players To Wear Helmet Decals For Victims Like George Floyd et al I think the police should just argue the same thing as black people. "You don't know what's it's like being....a police officer. You don't understand what's it's like to have people look at you and hate you just because of the color of your uniform. You don't know what's it's like to have people treat you differently because of the color of your uniform. Because some cop on the other side of the United States made a bad decision or got scared and ****ed up. You don't know what it's like to be judged by people just because of your occupation. You don't know what it's like to have people want to hurt you or your family because of your occupation. " jeanpierre and Rugby Saint II like this.

08-05-2020, 09:37 PM	#4
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: NFL To Allow Players To Wear Helmet Decals For Victims Like George Floyd et al Originally Posted by jnormand I think the police should just argue the same thing as black people. "You don't know what's it's like being....a police officer. You don't understand what's it's like to have people look at you and hate you just because of the color of your uniform. You don't know what's it's like to have people treat you differently because of the color of your uniform. Because some cop on the other side of the United States made a bad decision or got scared and ****ed up. You don't know what it's like to be judged by people just because of your occupation. You don't know what it's like to have people want to hurt you or your family because of your occupation. " That is absolutely true for 99.9% of officers out there. They just want to come in, do their job, go home, and be with their families just like the rest of us. And nothing that I've pointed out so far does not negate the fact that there are bad actors of all stripes. The difference is that police officers have a state sponsored mandate that allows for them to apply force, up to and including lethal force, against the public. With that mandate comes the responsibility and the restraint needed not to kill people in the public unless they are in fact in a situation where their lives are threatened. And a civilian, especially an unarmed one, who happens to not immediately comply with an order from an officer isn't immediately a threat to the life of that officer. And unfortunately it happens everywhere. So while this week it's police in Aurora, Colorado taking a 6 year old and her family out of a car, cuffing her, and forcing her to the ground, next week it'll be somewhere else where someone's brother, father, sister, or aunt will be subject to similar or worse treatment. Does anyone expect that child to ever trust a police officer again? Bad actors in uniform need to be stopped. When there are tasers, guns, radio, backup, and an entire force available to you, it's not too much to ask not to mistreat unarmed civilians, especially ones who are cuffed, no matter how they are acting. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

08-06-2020, 10:17 AM	#5
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 11,024 Blog Entries: 3	Re: NFL To Allow Players To Wear Helmet Decals For Victims Like George Floyd et al Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Bad actors in uniform need to be stopped. When there are tasers, guns, radio, backup, and an entire force available to you, it's not too much to ask not to mistreat unarmed civilians, especially ones who are cuffed, no matter how they are acting. SFIAH This sums it up perfectly in my mind. Police forces don't need less funding they need more. - More training - More qualified people - More technical skills - More pay - More professionals who can approach and handle situations without escalating Communities need more also. - Better leaders - More focused programs - More accountability for others in individual communities SaintFanInATLHELL, jnormand, Rugby Saint II and 2 others like this.

08-06-2020, 10:33 AM	#6
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 11,024 Blog Entries: 3	Re: NFL To Allow Players To Wear Helmet Decals For Victims Like George Floyd et al I also see the side of officers who are worked to death for minimal pay. I also empathize with the job itself. One minute you're helping a lost child reunite with a frantic parent, the next you're in danger of losing your life. There's no other job like it and I believe many of us take that for granted. jnormand and OldMaid like this.

08-06-2020, 10:37 AM	#7
pinch 100th Post Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Diamondhead, MS Posts: 272 Blog Entries: 1	Re: NFL To Allow Players To Wear Helmet Decals For Victims Like George Floyd et al None of this has anything to do with police brutality. So it's just a distraction from the issue at hand. And police brutality has nothing to do with giving black people free stuff and preferential treatment. But we all know that's the ultimate goal of 99% of the people pushing for "reform". jnormand and Rugby Saint II like this.

08-06-2020, 11:37 AM	#8
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,548	Re: NFL To Allow Players To Wear Helmet Decals For Victims Like George Floyd et al "More than 85% of police contracts in major cities around the country include language limiting oversight or discipline of officers, according to an analysis by Campaign Zero, a criminal justice reform advocacy group." They act as if they are above the law because in some instances they are. A little research will reveal many more examples of the ones listed below. Officers even have been rehired after being fired for high-profile fatal shootings. In Miami, an arbitrator in 2014 ordered the police department to reinstate detective Reynaldo Goyos, who fatally shot an unarmed man in a shooting that a department review board ruled was "unjustified." In Oakland, officer Hector Jimenez won his job back in arbitration in 2011 after being fired for fatally shooting two unarmed men in separate incidents within a year, shooting one in the back.
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,548	"Your worst enemy, he reflected, was your own nervous system. At any moment the tension inside you was liable to translate itself into some visible symptom." Winston Smith

08-06-2020, 11:41 AM	#9
pinch 100th Post Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Diamondhead, MS Posts: 272 Blog Entries: 1	Re: NFL To Allow Players To Wear Helmet Decals For Victims Like George Floyd et al If the black people want to go to college for free then I'm down with that. Why not just skip that and give them the best jobs? Even if they're not qualified? How about we just give the your job since you've treated them so unfairly? Or how about your kids' potential jobs when they get out of college since they were born white? jnormand likes this.

08-06-2020, 02:34 PM	#10
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,153	Re: NFL To Allow Players To Wear Helmet Decals For Victims Like George Floyd et al I am coming around to the BLM movement. But we have to stop living by double standards with the degrading lyrics of black music. The messages aren't the same as a rock band, country, or Blue grass. Black music glorifies violence. If I'm supposed to change my mind then I need something in return. Change the messages and we can change the culture to a better future for everyone. And quit rioting for God's sake. That is not a good message either. Bill Cosby was making great strides calling out these bad cultural influences before he went to jail. People were actually listening and discussing his moral views and how to bring the black people up with open and honest discussions. jnormand likes this.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

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