Kamara is now holding out

spkb25 · 09-01-2020, 10:33 AM

Uhoh, are the saints having cap problems again 😅🤣😆😂. Better sign a consistently injured left guard for 73 years. Niceee. Trade away your draft picks and sign away the future. Where have I seen that play out before? Oh thats right in the we are one player away new Orleans saints olympics.

gosaints1 · 09-01-2020, 11:08 AM

I would rather have one player/trades like Kamara or Davenport than drafts resembling staying put at #6 with DT Johnathon Sullivan. Quantity =/= Quality, I’ll always choose quality. As far as cap space, Saints are ok right now, absent situation with Kamara, but I fully expect that to be fleshed out at least to the point where he is satisfied with ongoing negotiations and playing week one at a high level, if he isn’t officially extended. I don’t see this being an ongoing issue. He has earned a pay raise though, most everybody will agree.

As far as next year’s cap space..., oof. Just a big serious oof. And it could even be worse, a lot worse if cap ceiling is reduced by $25MUSD as a few experts are opining. To be fair, I’ve never believed in the “kick the can down the road” with your financial obligations. But, there is some truth to the “I’ll address that when I need to” mindset. Loomis/Payton should, imho, be given the benefit of the doubt here. They’ve proven very adept and nimble in maneuvering around the cap.

AsylumGuido · 09-01-2020, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by gosaints1

I would rather have one player/trades like Kamara or Davenport than drafts resembling staying put at #6 with DT Johnathon Sullivan. Quantity =/= Quality, I’ll always choose quality. As far as cap space, Saints are ok right now, absent situation with Kamara, but I fully expect that to be fleshed out at least to the point where he is satisfied with ongoing negotiations and playing week one at a high level, if he isn’t officially extended. I don’t see this being an ongoing issue. He has earned a pay raise though, most everybody will agree.

As far as next year’s cap space..., oof. Just a big serious oof. And it could even be worse, a lot worse if cap ceiling is reduced by $25MUSD as a few experts are opining. To be fair, I’ve never believed in the “kick the can down the road” with your financial obligations. But, there is some truth to the “I’ll address that when I need to” mindset. Loomis/Payton should, imho, be given the benefit of the doubt here. They’ve proven very adept and nimble in maneuvering around the cap.

In a cost accounting sense (which is exactly what cap management is) it makes all the sense in the world to keep "kicking the can down the road" for as long as you can. Yes, there is a good chance the 2021 will be an anomaly, but based upon the fact that every year since the inception of the cap it has increased annually. Look at it this way ...

In the base year the contract amount, $10, is 5% of the cap, $200.

Given an approximate 5% increase in the cap annually in year two the cap is $200 * 1.05 or $210. The contract amount of $10 "kicked" into year two is only 4.76% ($10/$210) of the cap.

If "kicked" into year three with the same standard cap increase the contract amount decreases to 4.53% ($10/($210 * 1.05)) of the cap.

In the world of cap management it makes no sense NOT to "kick" as much down the road as is possible. Of course, the players want to be paid now, so the best method of "kicking that can" is in the form of signing bonuses which gives the player the total cash amount up front while the book amount is spread over the remainder of the contract. Loomis commonly writes annual roster bonuses into contracts. These roster bonuses can be converted at the team's discretion to signing bonuses to "kick the can" some more. It works the same for the player. They still get that cash right away, even sooner if the conversion occurs prior to the roster bonus date.

spkb25 · 09-01-2020, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by gosaints1

I would rather have one player/trades like Kamara or Davenport than drafts resembling staying put at #6 with DT Johnathon Sullivan. Quantity =/= Quality, I’ll always choose quality. As far as cap space, Saints are ok right now, absent situation with Kamara, but I fully expect that to be fleshed out at least to the point where he is satisfied with ongoing negotiations and playing week one at a high level, if he isn’t officially extended. I don’t see this being an ongoing issue. He has earned a pay raise though, most everybody will agree.

As far as next year’s cap space..., oof. Just a big serious oof. And it could even be worse, a lot worse if cap ceiling is reduced by $25MUSD as a few experts are opining. To be fair, I’ve never believed in the “kick the can down the road” with your financial obligations. But, there is some truth to the “I’ll address that when I need to” mindset. Loomis/Payton should, imho, be given the benefit of the doubt here. They’ve proven very adept and nimble in maneuvering around the cap.

BB has always had a lot of picks and he many more SB than SP. I'll take their approach. The saints have played in only one SB. It was an unimaginable moment and it has never been replicated by SP. Instead he nearly lost to the Eagles two seasons ago, lost to the vikings at home last year, and in one of the most embarrassing moments got beat in the playoffs by a sub 500 team. In 10 years he has not been able to get back, maybe giving away too many picks and poor cap management are his issue.

But when they start losing this season it is going to be hilarious. I for one cannot wait

Halo · 09-01-2020, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

He’ll get his walking papers and we will sign Fournette.

Would not be smart. Fournette is a bulldozer. Saints offense requires a finesse back with hands to create the triple threat. Fournette could, maybe, replace Murray, but Fournette also has been mediocre and injured.

RefsRobbedUs · 09-01-2020, 01:58 PM

Well Mixon got paid. I read 4yr/48m

Beastmode · 09-01-2020, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Halo

Would not be smart. Fournette is a bulldozer. Saints offense requires a finesse back with hands to create the triple threat. Fournette could, maybe, replace Murray, but Fournette also has been mediocre and injured.

He caught 76 passes last year. He has finesse. Despite running behind one of the weakest OL in the league still averaging over 4 a carry.

They both have played 3 seasons. LF has started 11 more games RS.

Would I rather have Kamara. Absolutely. He ain't worth breaking the bank anymore over though but we are going to do it. Enjoy your Kamara.

gosaints1 · 09-01-2020, 02:44 PM

spbk, you’re spot on accurate here wrt BB and his success and differences in management style and philosophies. I’m with you also, and I personally lean towards the belief that preparing for the future leads to more success than reacting to the daily crucible will. And I also believe that the last three seasons have been failures, I am a Ricky Bobby clone, lol. And I also believe that very shortly the Saints will be in full on rebuilding mode, notwithstanding Taysom or Winston being a stud QB and between you, me, and the four walls, nothing tells me this is going to come to pass.

But..., I do not want to see the Saints lose and/or fail. Regardless of who is QB and regardless of HC/GM. Also regardless of any ideological social justice warrior’ing and virtue signaling from ANYBODY.

gosaints1 · 09-01-2020, 03:03 PM

AG, Happy birthday my friend! Be safe & healthy. Difference of philosophies here, and I don’t agree with you. Anomalous year or not, right now the Saints are $39MUSD over the cap for next year, and it could be as much as $64MUSD. At some point in time the bill comes due, for everyone, and every organization. We all know ppl who live for the day only, and it’s just a matter of time before they’re bankrupt, been married three times, have two kids (non-custodial) paying $1200.00 a month in support which they can’t afford and are living in their parent’s basement at the age of 52. (This isn’t me!! , lol, yes I’m 52, but married only once, never again, ever, and thankfully have no kids). Organizations make the same stupid mistakes, very little difference between cap management and being fiscally responsible for a individual checkbook.

I just do firmly believe in one critical player at a pos’n of need is vastly more important than a full stable of draft picks. That being said, lol, the RW#34 trade was quite a bit excessive, and demonstrative of the fact that one player, alone, does not make a team.

AsylumGuido · 09-01-2020, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by gosaints1

spbk, you’re spot on accurate here wrt BB and his success and differences in management style and philosophies. I’m with you also, and I personally lean towards the belief that preparing for the future leads to more success than reacting to the daily crucible will. And I also believe that the last three seasons have been failures, I am a Ricky Bobby clone, lol. And I also believe that very shortly the Saints will be in full on rebuilding mode, notwithstanding Taysom or Winston being a stud QB and between you, me, and the four walls, nothing tells me this is going to come to pass.

But..., I do not want to see the Saints lose and/or fail. Regardless of who is QB and regardless of HC/GM. Also regardless of any ideological social justice warrior’ing and virtue signaling from ANYBODY.

Just ignore spkb25, gosaints1. He's nothing more than a troll. His entire existence on this site is to attempt piss people off. As one of our most respected members confided to me offline, he/she views him as an "embarrassment" to the forums. An appropriate depiction, for sure.

As for rebuilding, I absolutely wouldn't color Brees as gone after this season. As he said in his live interview during NFL Radio's Camp Tour stop with the Saints, his decision to continue playing has and will continue to be based upon two things, his enjoyment of the game and his ability to play at a high level. He added that he still has both. People have been predicting his retirement for the past four years since he began with the virtual one year contracts.

09-01-2020, 10:33 AM	#31
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	Re: Kamara is now holding out Uhoh, are the saints having cap problems again 😅🤣😆😂. Better sign a consistently injured left guard for 73 years. Niceee. Trade away your draft picks and sign away the future. Where have I seen that play out before? Oh thats right in the we are one player away new Orleans saints olympics. RefsRobbedUs likes this.

09-01-2020, 11:08 AM	#32
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Kamara is now holding out I would rather have one player/trades like Kamara or Davenport than drafts resembling staying put at #6 with DT Johnathon Sullivan. Quantity =/= Quality, I’ll always choose quality. As far as cap space, Saints are ok right now, absent situation with Kamara, but I fully expect that to be fleshed out at least to the point where he is satisfied with ongoing negotiations and playing week one at a high level, if he isn’t officially extended. I don’t see this being an ongoing issue. He has earned a pay raise though, most everybody will agree. As far as next year’s cap space..., oof. Just a big serious oof. And it could even be worse, a lot worse if cap ceiling is reduced by $25MUSD as a few experts are opining. To be fair, I’ve never believed in the “kick the can down the road” with your financial obligations. But, there is some truth to the “I’ll address that when I need to” mindset. Loomis/Payton should, imho, be given the benefit of the doubt here. They’ve proven very adept and nimble in maneuvering around the cap.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

09-01-2020, 12:16 PM	#33
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,392	Re: Kamara is now holding out Originally Posted by gosaints1 I would rather have one player/trades like Kamara or Davenport than drafts resembling staying put at #6 with DT Johnathon Sullivan. Quantity =/= Quality, I’ll always choose quality. As far as cap space, Saints are ok right now, absent situation with Kamara, but I fully expect that to be fleshed out at least to the point where he is satisfied with ongoing negotiations and playing week one at a high level, if he isn’t officially extended. I don’t see this being an ongoing issue. He has earned a pay raise though, most everybody will agree. As far as next year’s cap space..., oof. Just a big serious oof. And it could even be worse, a lot worse if cap ceiling is reduced by $25MUSD as a few experts are opining. To be fair, I’ve never believed in the “kick the can down the road” with your financial obligations. But, there is some truth to the “I’ll address that when I need to” mindset. Loomis/Payton should, imho, be given the benefit of the doubt here. They’ve proven very adept and nimble in maneuvering around the cap. In a cost accounting sense (which is exactly what cap management is) it makes all the sense in the world to keep "kicking the can down the road" for as long as you can. Yes, there is a good chance the 2021 will be an anomaly, but based upon the fact that every year since the inception of the cap it has increased annually. Look at it this way ... In the base year the contract amount, $10, is 5% of the cap, $200. Given an approximate 5% increase in the cap annually in year two the cap is $200 * 1.05 or $210. The contract amount of $10 "kicked" into year two is only 4.76% ($10/$210) of the cap. If "kicked" into year three with the same standard cap increase the contract amount decreases to 4.53% ($10/($210 * 1.05)) of the cap. In the world of cap management it makes no sense NOT to "kick" as much down the road as is possible. Of course, the players want to be paid now, so the best method of "kicking that can" is in the form of signing bonuses which gives the player the total cash amount up front while the book amount is spread over the remainder of the contract. Loomis commonly writes annual roster bonuses into contracts. These roster bonuses can be converted at the team's discretion to signing bonuses to "kick the can" some more. It works the same for the player. They still get that cash right away, even sooner if the conversion occurs prior to the roster bonus date.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

09-01-2020, 12:37 PM	#34
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	Re: Kamara is now holding out Originally Posted by gosaints1 I would rather have one player/trades like Kamara or Davenport than drafts resembling staying put at #6 with DT Johnathon Sullivan. Quantity =/= Quality, I’ll always choose quality. As far as cap space, Saints are ok right now, absent situation with Kamara, but I fully expect that to be fleshed out at least to the point where he is satisfied with ongoing negotiations and playing week one at a high level, if he isn’t officially extended. I don’t see this being an ongoing issue. He has earned a pay raise though, most everybody will agree. As far as next year’s cap space..., oof. Just a big serious oof. And it could even be worse, a lot worse if cap ceiling is reduced by $25MUSD as a few experts are opining. To be fair, I’ve never believed in the “kick the can down the road” with your financial obligations. But, there is some truth to the “I’ll address that when I need to” mindset. Loomis/Payton should, imho, be given the benefit of the doubt here. They’ve proven very adept and nimble in maneuvering around the cap. BB has always had a lot of picks and he many more SB than SP. I'll take their approach. The saints have played in only one SB. It was an unimaginable moment and it has never been replicated by SP. Instead he nearly lost to the Eagles two seasons ago, lost to the vikings at home last year, and in one of the most embarrassing moments got beat in the playoffs by a sub 500 team. In 10 years he has not been able to get back, maybe giving away too many picks and poor cap management are his issue. But when they start losing this season it is going to be hilarious. I for one cannot wait
	Your team stinks

09-01-2020, 12:55 PM	#35
Halo Site Donor MONTHLY Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 20,207 Blog Entries: 45	Re: Kamara is now holding out Originally Posted by The Dude He’ll get his walking papers and we will sign Fournette. Would not be smart. Fournette is a bulldozer. Saints offense requires a finesse back with hands to create the triple threat. Fournette could, maybe, replace Murray, but Fournette also has been mediocre and injured.

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09-01-2020, 01:58 PM	#36
RefsRobbedUs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 659	Re: Kamara is now holding out Well Mixon got paid. I read 4yr/48m
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09-01-2020, 02:11 PM	#37
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126	Re: Kamara is now holding out Originally Posted by Halo Would not be smart. Fournette is a bulldozer. Saints offense requires a finesse back with hands to create the triple threat. Fournette could, maybe, replace Murray, but Fournette also has been mediocre and injured. He caught 76 passes last year. He has finesse. Despite running behind one of the weakest OL in the league still averaging over 4 a carry. They both have played 3 seasons. LF has started 11 more games RS. Would I rather have Kamara. Absolutely. He ain't worth breaking the bank anymore over though but we are going to do it. Enjoy your Kamara.
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126

09-01-2020, 02:44 PM	#38
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Kamara is now holding out spbk, you’re spot on accurate here wrt BB and his success and differences in management style and philosophies. I’m with you also, and I personally lean towards the belief that preparing for the future leads to more success than reacting to the daily crucible will. And I also believe that the last three seasons have been failures, I am a Ricky Bobby clone, lol. And I also believe that very shortly the Saints will be in full on rebuilding mode, notwithstanding Taysom or Winston being a stud QB and between you, me, and the four walls, nothing tells me this is going to come to pass. But..., I do not want to see the Saints lose and/or fail. Regardless of who is QB and regardless of HC/GM. Also regardless of any ideological social justice warrior’ing and virtue signaling from ANYBODY. spkb25 likes this.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

09-01-2020, 03:03 PM	#39
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Kamara is now holding out AG, Happy birthday my friend! Be safe & healthy. Difference of philosophies here, and I don’t agree with you. Anomalous year or not, right now the Saints are $39MUSD over the cap for next year, and it could be as much as $64MUSD. At some point in time the bill comes due, for everyone, and every organization. We all know ppl who live for the day only, and it’s just a matter of time before they’re bankrupt, been married three times, have two kids (non-custodial) paying $1200.00 a month in support which they can’t afford and are living in their parent’s basement at the age of 52. (This isn’t me!! , lol, yes I’m 52, but married only once, never again, ever, and thankfully have no kids). Organizations make the same stupid mistakes, very little difference between cap management and being fiscally responsible for a individual checkbook. I just do firmly believe in one critical player at a pos’n of need is vastly more important than a full stable of draft picks. That being said, lol, the RW#34 trade was quite a bit excessive, and demonstrative of the fact that one player, alone, does not make a team.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

09-01-2020, 03:06 PM	#40
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,392	Re: Kamara is now holding out Originally Posted by gosaints1 spbk, you’re spot on accurate here wrt BB and his success and differences in management style and philosophies. I’m with you also, and I personally lean towards the belief that preparing for the future leads to more success than reacting to the daily crucible will. And I also believe that the last three seasons have been failures, I am a Ricky Bobby clone, lol. And I also believe that very shortly the Saints will be in full on rebuilding mode, notwithstanding Taysom or Winston being a stud QB and between you, me, and the four walls, nothing tells me this is going to come to pass. But..., I do not want to see the Saints lose and/or fail. Regardless of who is QB and regardless of HC/GM. Also regardless of any ideological social justice warrior’ing and virtue signaling from ANYBODY. Just ignore spkb25, gosaints1. He's nothing more than a troll. His entire existence on this site is to attempt piss people off. As one of our most respected members confided to me offline, he/she views him as an "embarrassment" to the forums. An appropriate depiction, for sure. As for rebuilding, I absolutely wouldn't color Brees as gone after this season. As he said in his live interview during NFL Radio's Camp Tour stop with the Saints, his decision to continue playing has and will continue to be based upon two things, his enjoyment of the game and his ability to play at a high level. He added that he still has both. People have been predicting his retirement for the past four years since he began with the virtual one year contracts.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill