Going for 2

yasoon · 08-25-2005, 11:11 AM

ScottyRo actually made a good point, whether preseason or not, this is indicitive of Haz's poor 2 point strategy of the past. He played Thursday's game like a real game and I guarantee that he would have done that in the regular season.

You do not go for 2 in the third quarter unless you're way down. We have done this numerous times in the past and we end up going for (and usually missing) the 2 pointer. And then going for, and missing, the one we have to go for afterward. The end result is 2 free points lost late in a game.

Five points down in the 3rd, if you go for 2 and miss it, an opposing field goal puts you eight down. If you kick, then you just need the TD and the kick to tie.

Going for 2 to make it a 3 point game should only occur at some point with less than half of the 4th to go. If you do it in the third, that one point can quickly get erased as the rest of the game unfolds. Percentage wise, it is a huge risk to do so. The success rate is not as high as you'd think and the Saints are really bad in ALL short yardage situations....we all know that. I bet we've been better at 3rd and 7 over the last five years than we have been at 3rd and 2.

The success rate, league wide, on 2 pointers since it came into play is just a hair over 50%. I would bet that the Saints percentage in the Haz/McCarthy era has been about 30%. Meanwhile, you miss one extra point (which we all remember) over that same time.

It's a risk/reward thing and you gotta take the free point until the game has played out a bit more. Then, when it gets crunch time, you take your shot.

TheGambler · 08-25-2005, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by saintswhodi

They probablywent to the fade route cause last season when AB tried to "drill the WR between the numbers" he threw several red zone INTs. A fade route allows either for the WR to make the play, or noone. But you don't turn the ball over, which would be 100000% better than our QB leading the league in red zone turnovers again. It it stops the turnovers in the red zone, fade away.

We're talking about 2 point conversions.....you can't "turn the ball over" on a 2 point conversion. You either get the points, or you don't.

WhoDat · 08-25-2005, 02:44 PM

I think that we should start going for two in the first quarter... you know, to psyche the other team out... or more like - to cut the lead to 15 before the start of the 2nd quarter. LOL

saintswhodi · 08-25-2005, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by TheGambler

Originally Posted by saintswhodi

They probablywent to the fade route cause last season when AB tried to "drill the WR between the numbers" he threw several red zone INTs. A fade route allows either for the WR to make the play, or noone. But you don't turn the ball over, which would be 100000% better than our QB leading the league in red zone turnovers again. It it stops the turnovers in the red zone, fade away.

We're talking about 2 point conversions.....you can't "turn the ball over" on a 2 point conversion. You either get the points, or you don't.

Sorry, but I was talking about the use of the FADE ROUTE in that area of the field. I didn't specify a situation. Next time I will be sure to make it clearer for comprehension purposes.

RockyMountainSaint · 08-26-2005, 04:55 AM

I think that we should start going for two in the first quarter... you know, to psyche the other team out... or more like - to cut the lead to 15 before the start of the 2nd quarter. LOL

There's a fly in this ointment WhoDat............
You have to actually SCORE A TOUCHDOWN in the 1st quarter to go for two.
Until proven otherwise I will call that: "Putting the cart before the horse."

I'll be waiting Shep.

RockyMountainSaint · 08-26-2005, 05:03 AM

We're talking about 2 point conversions.....you can't "turn the ball over" on a 2 point conversion. You either get the points, or you don't.

If the defense does intercept the ball and run it back to their end-zone it is two points for them.
The play isn't necessarily dead upon interception and I have no doubts within my mind that AB could hit a D-back in stride allowing him to run it back.
It would add to his already impressive blooper reel.

Or am I thinking of an NCAA rule?

yasoon · 08-26-2005, 09:41 AM

I think it's just the NCAA, but it should be in the pros as well. To me, you're on the field with a TD counting as 2 and a kick counting as 1. So, a TD the other way should count as 2 as well. But......you probably see a score the other way about once a year in college.

Euphoria · 08-26-2005, 10:00 AM

the two point conversion is either good or no good. A turnover makes the play no good.

yasoon · 08-26-2005, 10:08 AM

TheGambler · 08-26-2005, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by RockyMountainSaint

Or am I thinking of an NCAA rule?

Yeah, you are.

08-25-2005, 11:11 AM	#11
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	ScottyRo actually made a good point, whether preseason or not, this is indicitive of Haz's poor 2 point strategy of the past. He played Thursday's game like a real game and I guarantee that he would have done that in the regular season. You do not go for 2 in the third quarter unless you're way down. We have done this numerous times in the past and we end up going for (and usually missing) the 2 pointer. And then going for, and missing, the one we have to go for afterward. The end result is 2 free points lost late in a game. Five points down in the 3rd, if you go for 2 and miss it, an opposing field goal puts you eight down. If you kick, then you just need the TD and the kick to tie. Going for 2 to make it a 3 point game should only occur at some point with less than half of the 4th to go. If you do it in the third, that one point can quickly get erased as the rest of the game unfolds. Percentage wise, it is a huge risk to do so. The success rate is not as high as you'd think and the Saints are really bad in ALL short yardage situations....we all know that. I bet we've been better at 3rd and 7 over the last five years than we have been at 3rd and 2. The success rate, league wide, on 2 pointers since it came into play is just a hair over 50%. I would bet that the Saints percentage in the Haz/McCarthy era has been about 30%. Meanwhile, you miss one extra point (which we all remember) over that same time. It's a risk/reward thing and you gotta take the free point until the game has played out a bit more. Then, when it gets crunch time, you take your shot.
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

08-25-2005, 02:42 PM	#12
TheGambler 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 610	Originally Posted by saintswhodi They probablywent to the fade route cause last season when AB tried to "drill the WR between the numbers" he threw several red zone INTs. A fade route allows either for the WR to make the play, or noone. But you don't turn the ball over, which would be 100000% better than our QB leading the league in red zone turnovers again. It it stops the turnovers in the red zone, fade away. We're talking about 2 point conversions.....you can't "turn the ball over" on a 2 point conversion. You either get the points, or you don't.
TheGambler 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 610

08-25-2005, 02:44 PM	#13
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	I think that we should start going for two in the first quarter... you know, to psyche the other team out... or more like - to cut the lead to 15 before the start of the 2nd quarter. LOL
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08-25-2005, 03:17 PM	#14
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by TheGambler Originally Posted by saintswhodi They probablywent to the fade route cause last season when AB tried to "drill the WR between the numbers" he threw several red zone INTs. A fade route allows either for the WR to make the play, or noone. But you don't turn the ball over, which would be 100000% better than our QB leading the league in red zone turnovers again. It it stops the turnovers in the red zone, fade away. We're talking about 2 point conversions.....you can't "turn the ball over" on a 2 point conversion. You either get the points, or you don't. Sorry, but I was talking about the use of the FADE ROUTE in that area of the field. I didn't specify a situation. Next time I will be sure to make it clearer for comprehension purposes.

08-26-2005, 09:41 AM	#17
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	I think it's just the NCAA, but it should be in the pros as well. To me, you're on the field with a TD counting as 2 and a kick counting as 1. So, a TD the other way should count as 2 as well. But......you probably see a score the other way about once a year in college.
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

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08-26-2005, 04:55 AM	#15
RockyMountainSaint Mmm That Smell! Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Metairie Terrace Posts: 3,073	I think that we should start going for two in the first quarter... you know, to psyche the other team out... or more like - to cut the lead to 15 before the start of the 2nd quarter. LOL There's a fly in this ointment WhoDat............ You have to actually SCORE A TOUCHDOWN in the 1st quarter to go for two. Until proven otherwise I will call that: "Putting the cart before the horse." I'll be waiting Shep.

08-26-2005, 05:03 AM	#16
RockyMountainSaint Mmm That Smell! Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Metairie Terrace Posts: 3,073	We're talking about 2 point conversions.....you can't "turn the ball over" on a 2 point conversion. You either get the points, or you don't. If the defense does intercept the ball and run it back to their end-zone it is two points for them. The play isn't necessarily dead upon interception and I have no doubts within my mind that AB could hit a D-back in stride allowing him to run it back. It would add to his already impressive blooper reel. Or am I thinking of an NCAA rule?

08-26-2005, 10:00 AM	#18
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	the two point conversion is either good or no good. A turnover makes the play no good.

08-26-2005, 10:08 AM	#19
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08-26-2005, 10:41 AM	#20
TheGambler 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 610	Originally Posted by RockyMountainSaint Or am I thinking of an NCAA rule? Yeah, you are.
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