USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents

K Major · 10-22-2020, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

I disagree on this one. Von Bell is grading out horribly over there in Cincy, and we’re rated a position higher in pass defense than we were last year. The issues that persist with the Saints defense have been consistent. Pass interference, third downs, and giving up big plays at bad times. That was here when Bell was here. It was here when Byrd was here. It’s been like that since the loss of Sharper.

We can have Ed Reed and Earl Thomas in his prime back there and somehow they will look bad in New Orleans. It's very rare that you have 4 DB's looking bad in the same game. That speaks to the coordinator. You gotta simplify it.

DENNIS ALLEN's scheme is trash.

TheOak · 10-23-2020, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

You’ve hit on a major point here that I’ve been thinking about this season. Vonn Bell was the “captain” of the secondary who made all of the adjustments. Those guys grew together over the years and had developed their way of communicating on the field.

Why did we let Vonn Bell go?!? I truly think the reason our secondary has become so mediocre is solely because of Vonn leaving. We made the wrong choice.

When was our secondary consistently better than mediocre?

Mediocre for a Saints defense or an NFL defense?... I looked all the way back to 2007 and we haven't been better than 18th in the league for pass defense every year except the ones noted below. .

In 2013 we were 2nd and in 2010 we were 4rh.

Vonn Bell years 2016-2019
2016 31st
2017 18th
2018 29th
2019 19th

Lewis has a great year and Lattimore had a great year or so years but nothing more than that.

gosaints1 · 10-23-2020, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

When was our secondary consistently better than mediocre?

Mediocre for a Saints defense or an NFL defense?... I looked all the way back to 2007 and we haven't been better than 18th in the league for pass defense every year except the ones noted below. .

In 2013 we were 2nd and in 2010 we were 4rh.

Vonn Bell years 2016-2019
2016 31st
2017 18th
2018 29th
2019 19th

Lewis has a great year and Lattimore had a great year or so years but nothing more than that.

Pass Defense Rankings by DVOA for the Saints:

2020 - 14th
2019 - 10th
2018 - 12th
2017 - 5th

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...m-defense/2020

K Major · 10-22-2020, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

Letting Vonn Bell leave was so stupid.

Bell is limited. He's performed poorly thus far in Cincy.

We would have the same issues if he was still in New Orleans.

ChrisXVI · 10-22-2020, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Bell is limited. He's performed poorly thus far in Cincy.

We would have the same issues if he was still in New Orleans.

But we didn’t have the same issue when he was in New Orleans.

jeanpierre · 10-22-2020, 04:53 PM

Know I can be a bit of an apologist for Mr. Marcus as I'm a big fan of his, but there's a couple of points to consider...

He was the second highest rated safety in the NFL his rookie year and he has regressed - and it's not just him, but the entire secondary...

Lattimore has regressed; Crawley came out great and regressed; Apple was playing great, injury, never the same; Jackrabbit was a second shut-down CB and then he started giving up big plays...

So is it the player or the coaching/scheme?

dizzle88 · 10-22-2020, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Know I can be a bit of an apologist for Mr. Marcus as I'm a big fan of his, but there's a couple of points to consider...

He was the second highest rated safety his rookie year and he has regressed - and it's not just him, but the entire secondary...

Lattimore has regressed; Crawley came out great and regressed; Apple was playing great, injury, never the same; Jackrabbit was a second shut-down CB and then he started giving up big plays...

So is it the player or the coaching/scheme?

I think its always been the scheme, but Dennis Allen has a job for life whilst Payton is around.

In Latts case though, he has something else going on. The fact that he can't get himself amped up unless it's against Mike Evans is troubling.

Sainters7 · 10-24-2020, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

In Latts case though, he has something else going on. The fact that he can't get himself amped up unless it's against Mike Evans is troubling.

Lattimore has been my favourite player on the roster since his rookie year, so I don't want it to sound like I'm just throwing shade on him...but I think he's just straight up lazy. He strikes me as the kinda guy that's gonna put on 40-50 lbs within a couple years after retiring.

AsylumGuido · 10-24-2020, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Sainters7

Lattimore has been my favourite player on the roster since his rookie year, so I don't want it to sound like I'm just throwing shade on him...but I think he's just straight up lazy. He strikes me as the kinda guy that's gonna put on 40-50 lbs within a couple years after retiring.

Thank God, I lost 43 pounds after retiring. But, I may have put on ten this last week traveling down Route 66 eating at nothing but roadside diners.

jlouhill · 10-25-2020, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Thank God, I lost 43 pounds after retiring. But, I may have put on ten this last week traveling down Route 66 eating at nothing but roadside diners.

I’m right there with ya on that AG. I’m a trucker but I try to stay away from the diners as they will put serious weight on in a heartbeat, but eating sandwiches in the cab every night gets old sometimes. 😉

10-22-2020, 08:09 PM	#1
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,831 Blog Entries: 3	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by rezburna I disagree on this one. Von Bell is grading out horribly over there in Cincy, and we’re rated a position higher in pass defense than we were last year. The issues that persist with the Saints defense have been consistent. Pass interference, third downs, and giving up big plays at bad times. That was here when Bell was here. It was here when Byrd was here. It’s been like that since the loss of Sharper. We can have Ed Reed and Earl Thomas in his prime back there and somehow they will look bad in New Orleans. It's very rare that you have 4 DB's looking bad in the same game. That speaks to the coordinator. You gotta simplify it. DENNIS ALLEN's scheme is trash.

10-23-2020, 04:47 AM	#2
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,047	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by ChrisXVI You’ve hit on a major point here that I’ve been thinking about this season. Vonn Bell was the “captain” of the secondary who made all of the adjustments. Those guys grew together over the years and had developed their way of communicating on the field. Why did we let Vonn Bell go?!? I truly think the reason our secondary has become so mediocre is solely because of Vonn leaving. We made the wrong choice. When was our secondary consistently better than mediocre? Mediocre for a Saints defense or an NFL defense?... I looked all the way back to 2007 and we haven't been better than 18th in the league for pass defense every year except the ones noted below. . In 2013 we were 2nd and in 2010 we were 4rh. Vonn Bell years 2016-2019 2016 31st 2017 18th 2018 29th 2019 19th Lewis has a great year and Lattimore had a great year or so years but nothing more than that.

10-23-2020, 08:08 AM	#3
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by TheOak When was our secondary consistently better than mediocre? Mediocre for a Saints defense or an NFL defense?... I looked all the way back to 2007 and we haven't been better than 18th in the league for pass defense every year except the ones noted below. . In 2013 we were 2nd and in 2010 we were 4rh. Vonn Bell years 2016-2019 2016 31st 2017 18th 2018 29th 2019 19th Lewis has a great year and Lattimore had a great year or so years but nothing more than that. Pass Defense Rankings by DVOA for the Saints: 2020 - 14th 2019 - 10th 2018 - 12th 2017 - 5th https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...m-defense/2020
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

10-22-2020, 07:35 PM	#4
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,831 Blog Entries: 3	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by dizzle88 Letting Vonn Bell leave was so stupid. Bell is limited. He's performed poorly thus far in Cincy. We would have the same issues if he was still in New Orleans.

10-22-2020, 07:57 PM	#5
ChrisXVI 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 11,482	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by K Major Bell is limited. He's performed poorly thus far in Cincy. We would have the same issues if he was still in New Orleans. But we didn’t have the same issue when he was in New Orleans.

10-22-2020, 04:53 PM	#6
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Know I can be a bit of an apologist for Mr. Marcus as I'm a big fan of his, but there's a couple of points to consider... He was the second highest rated safety in the NFL his rookie year and he has regressed - and it's not just him, but the entire secondary... Lattimore has regressed; Crawley came out great and regressed; Apple was playing great, injury, never the same; Jackrabbit was a second shut-down CB and then he started giving up big plays... So is it the player or the coaching/scheme? rezburna likes this.

10-22-2020, 04:56 PM	#7
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,534	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by jeanpierre Know I can be a bit of an apologist for Mr. Marcus as I'm a big fan of his, but there's a couple of points to consider... He was the second highest rated safety his rookie year and he has regressed - and it's not just him, but the entire secondary... Lattimore has regressed; Crawley came out great and regressed; Apple was playing great, injury, never the same; Jackrabbit was a second shut-down CB and then he started giving up big plays... So is it the player or the coaching/scheme? I think its always been the scheme, but Dennis Allen has a job for life whilst Payton is around. In Latts case though, he has something else going on. The fact that he can't get himself amped up unless it's against Mike Evans is troubling.

10-24-2020, 02:06 PM	#8
Sainters7 Registered Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 48	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by dizzle88 In Latts case though, he has something else going on. The fact that he can't get himself amped up unless it's against Mike Evans is troubling. Lattimore has been my favourite player on the roster since his rookie year, so I don't want it to sound like I'm just throwing shade on him...but I think he's just straight up lazy. He strikes me as the kinda guy that's gonna put on 40-50 lbs within a couple years after retiring. rezburna likes this.
Sainters7 Registered Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 48

10-24-2020, 04:05 PM	#9
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by Sainters7 Lattimore has been my favourite player on the roster since his rookie year, so I don't want it to sound like I'm just throwing shade on him...but I think he's just straight up lazy. He strikes me as the kinda guy that's gonna put on 40-50 lbs within a couple years after retiring. Thank God, I lost 43 pounds after retiring. But, I may have put on ten this last week traveling down Route 66 eating at nothing but roadside diners. Sainters7, jeanpierre and jlouhill like this.

10-25-2020, 09:54 AM	#10
jlouhill 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Denton, Tx. Posts: 692	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Thank God, I lost 43 pounds after retiring. But, I may have put on ten this last week traveling down Route 66 eating at nothing but roadside diners. I’m right there with ya on that AG. I’m a trucker but I try to stay away from the diners as they will put serious weight on in a heartbeat, but eating sandwiches in the cab every night gets old sometimes. 😉 iceshack149, Rugby Saint II and K Major like this.