Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Once we get our guys back the offense is going to be even better. If we could somehow get the defense to not look like ****, I think we are going to be fine.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

We aren’t winning anything if they don’t fix the defense. Plain and simple.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

There’s issues in the secondary. No doubt about it, but this far from the worse we seen and it’s not even close to being the worse defense in the NFL. The Seahawks are winning games with that sorry ass defense they have. Let’s look at the Panthers game.

The Panthers rushed for 37 yards! 2.6 yards per carry. This defense continues to be ELITE when it comes to stopping the run year in and year out. We gave up 246 yards through the air which isn’t too bad. We gave up 24 points, which is really decent and right around our average in games when Brees doesn’t throw a costly interception that results in 6. It’s really not that bad.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Rez I agree that our run defense is doing the job game in game out. What in your opinion is causing the problems in the secondary, is it the Safety play, Williams seems to be out of position most of the time and bites on dropping down to mid level out route coverage allowing the center of the field to be wide open. Malcom Jenkins makes some flash plays but he has been weak covering TE’s exactly what he was brought in to improve.

I just don’t get all the broken coverages, DA dropping defensive linemen in to secondary coverages .... what is going on in your opinion?

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Saints secondary has sucked bigly since the great super bowl victory... started with that dude from Texas....and just got worse since.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

If you're wondering why Jenkins was mediocre here then looked better in Philly to only return to look mediocre again. Or why all the talent (Latt/Janoris/CGJ) we have in the secondary isn't translating to an improved secondary. If you can't come up with an answer, you're focusing on the wrong unit. This is a coaching and scheme issue. The obvious answer is the answer. Talented players are underperforming or regressing since their rookie (Latt/Ceedy Deuce) year.

It's NOT the players. It's what they're being asked to do.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

That is the same thing I see when I watch our defense play. Bad coaching and Jenkins are killing us. Oh yes, Williams straight up sucks!:brood:

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Safety and Slot CB seems to be the problem.

Williams
- doesn't read the QB and gets baited
- misses tackles consistently
- doesn't track the ball in the air leading to PI

Jenkins
- clearly doesn't know his assignments (blown so many coverages)
- misses tackles
- guesses wrong too often
- can't cover 1v1 against any TE or shifty slot WR

CGJ
- regressing this year
- consistently getting beat by TEs
- getting beat by slot WRs
- allows free releases
- PI machine when the ball is in the air


These 3 guys are playing at PS level this year, if their play doesn't improve our D will continue to suck.

Allen is getting blamed for the play calls too often on here. He isn't calling plays allowing for people to run wide open, he isn't calling plays that involve missed tackles, he isn't calling plays that involve PI. Position coaches have more responsibility over the poor performance than the play calling.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Dennis Allen's forte with the Saints is the secondary. As Def Coordinator, fix it or find replacements for him and Glenn.

Players gotta make plays. Coaches gotta coach up talent. Its a complete circle.

Allen's name doesn't get mentioned enough for poor performances from this group.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Interesting take on a promising dawg but do you know why he's "regressing in year 2?

Why in the hell is he man on man with Robbie Anderson last week? Ceedy is a safety & his strength is making plays near the line as well as being allowed to roam the secondary.

How about poor scheme? Does that fall on Sean, Dennis Allen or Glenn?

Game saving tackle by Lattimore vs the Chargers and a game saving sack by Davenport vs Carolina show me the players are giving their best efforts but they aren’t being put in the best situations.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Seems like scheme to me. At his age, Jenkins is better playing close to the line of scrimmage like a LB’er. Blitzing...covering backs out of the backfield...spying the QB. Go Nickel. Take Anzalone off the field. Put Jenkins where Anzalone is. Drop CJ back at SS. Put Patrick Robinson in the slot. Go 2 man under with Lattimore trailing the best receiver. 2 man and cover 2 are the same shell, so mix that in too with Jenkins dropping back into the middle of the field instead of a linebacker. It’s overcomplicated if you ask me.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

DVOA has the Saints at 10th overall, 16th vs the pass and 4th vs the run. I understand the logic behind saying Dennis Allen isn’t getting it done though. What really kills the Saints is the number of passing TD’s allowed. 2d to last in the league with 17 passing TD’s allowed..., only Atlanta is worse with 19, but they’ve played one more game. That stat just has to get better. And the last three games have shown the stat worsening. I’m with K on this one, I don’t think it’s a lack of talent on the field. That’s a bad, bad, very bad stat to have on your DC resume’, imho. It has to improve.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

The players shouldn't be absolved of poor play either. For instance every time I see one of those turds going for a highlight shoulder tackle, it makes my blood boil. It's not like they aren't taught to tackle correctly. It's not like they're taught to take horrendous angles. There's plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom. It's the coaches job to put them in position and the players job to make plays.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

The shoulder tackles are definitely annoying.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

But how many times have you heard CSP at his post-game media coverage say, “It starts with us, the coaching staff”.

Well then …

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Papz,

I totally get it on the players though. If one player regresses, the blame likely falls on the player. If the whole unit regresses, it points toward coaching.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Rez, they were one player away named McCafery that would change that outcome possibly. Just saying our troubles aren’t over By a long shot. DA needs a foot in his asre if u ask me. I’m fed up


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Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

I heard deuce mc commit on I believe it’s Marcus Williams that it’s time to pull that dude he can’t correct his play it’s time to move on


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Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Deuce, Hebert and even Swilling "hinted" at it. His blunders are starting to be called out by guys who have played the game. Tackling, coverage lapses you name it.

Try MJ or Swearinger at Free Safety if you don't plan on making a trade before the deadline.

You can't continue to hold Marcus Williams hand forever.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

I honestly don’t know why Earl Thomas isn’t here. The Saints want to run the Cover 1/Cover 3 style defense that Seattle ran but with more emphasis on Cover 1...so why not go get the guy that’s used to it? That’s his specialty. He can handle the center fielder style of play.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

listening to Allen and commentators it seems he has complicated the defense. imho simplify and let the guys play instinctively. Haven't you noticed the guys looking at each other after a play and shrugging - like - wtf where were you or I thought you had him.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

I agree. The coaching has been awlful. Just pointing out it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Annoying is an understatement! There are too many words to describe the shoulder tackles. It is :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:....

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

How many DCs are we going to go through only to see them leave and have success on another team?

Our issues... like tackling and not getting PIs are fundamental mistakes made by players on the field. What specifically do you think Allen is doing wrong?

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

If it’s too complicated then isn’t it’s the coaches job to simplify things? Over complicated is a word that has been thrown around fairly consistently over DA’s tenure as DC. This is coming from players and fans so there must be some truth to it. Back when we didn’t have many talented players in the secondary they were forced to complicate things because our players skill sets were inferior to most other teams offenses. We had to rely on scheme more than physical ability. We now have above average talent all around our secondary. Is there any need for over complication anymore? More about matchups and less about trickery?
Or am I off base here?

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

B&G,

See post #10, last sentence.


It keeps happening year after year with this defense. No matter what players we have during that season, the results are the same. At some point the buck stops at Dennis Allen. From bad schemes to not adjusting during the game, we’ve said all of the same things before about him. Pro bowl players come here and become mediocre, 1st round draft picks regress. At this point if he hasn’t even benched anybody to at least set an example, Marcus should be benched.

Lattimore - regression since rookie season.
Williams - see above- has been in DA system 4 years now but still lost in coverage.
MJ - avg player in NO, a start with the Eagles, immediate regression in NO.
PRob - see above
Jenoris - good corner but he's regressed.
Eli - initially he was improvement after leaving NY but regressed in NO.
Ken trash can Crawley - played out of his mind in 2017, only to regress.
PJ Williams - he's a Six Flags roller coast ride.
Devante Harris - TERRIBLE NFL player, but Allen thought he could start :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Do you think Bellichick, Tomlin, Harbaugh or Andy Reid would allow poor, repetitive behavior from player(s) this long?

SIMPLIFY the defense & coach these guys up.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Is your solution that these players who are all vets need a more simplified defense because they don't understand?
Or
Are you saying all of these players should be benched and they just aren't pulling the trigger?

I guess we aren't taking into account the improvements Allen has made with this team...

Every year since Allen has taken over he has improved the D.
2015- ranked 31st
2016- 27th
2017- 17th
2018- 14th
2019- 11th
2020- so far 7th

Think about that we are ranked 7th right now, but 24th in points... you know why? Players giving penalty yards at a crazy rate (worst in the league). Is Allen coaching players to give up penalty yards?


My point of view- our locker-room is cancerous and that is allowing sloppy undisciplined play to occur because players aren't taking lead and captains in the locker-room aren't holding each other accountable.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

When were you able to spend time in the locker room to come to that conclusion? Wouldn't that violate COVID protocols?

:confused:

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

7th? LOL .. how can Dennis Allen continuously put our secondary in zone coverage get ranked that high? Ultimately though, it is a results-based league. If the defense cannot improve on the back end, changes need to be considered.

The problem is we don't have very much turnover (J. Jenkins & Baun being the only 2 new players; M. Jenkins played under DA while here the first time) and yet we constantly have guys out of place or making the wrong reads. These guys should know this system by heart and yet they look like they are playing a brand new system every game. SIMPLIFY THE DEFENSE. Get guys on the same page.

That is completely on coaching. If you don't see this, not sure what to tell you.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Is it Dennis Allen or Aaron Glenn... or both.

Swapping the d-coordinator mid season is troublesome, since the defense isn't bottom of the league.

Maybe a new secondary coach could be a wake-up call even if Glenn's not the reason for the bad secondary performance.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Depends on what single metrics you used to evaluate the defense. Hell, statistically, I can make Dallas’ defense “appear” to be better than what it actually is. But..., the eye test never fails my friend. Ppl pay to much attention to quantitative analyses these days, myself included, lol. But the eye test? It just doesn’t fail.

A bad pass defense is a bad pass defense. Allowing more passing TD’s than any other team in the league just isn’t championship level football. Play has been bad also. I’ve seen more defensive backs late to their assignments than I’ve ever seen before. That’s not coaching, those are just missed assignments. I’m not overly fond of Dennis Allen and regardless of who to blame, ultimately it’s either his scheme failure or his leadership failure that has allowed the defense to be rock bottom in passing TD’s allowed.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

If you can't defend your position I understand...

;)

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Watch more games.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

It’s both , does anyone see this defense can completely turn this around into a super bowl de. I really was giving them to the midpoint to (get it ) it’s looking grim


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Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

The offense is slowly getting better each week. However, the defense gets worse each week....I will admit that Davenport helped the front seven but the back end still needs help desperately.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

Doom and gloom.

I don't get it. Y'all are acting as if the defense is horrible. They got beat early with tons of penalties. Those are getting under control recently. They are not getting shredded by opposing offenses. They have one of the very best run defenses in the league. Of course teams are going to have to turn to the pass and they'll get a big play here or there. In case y'all haven't been paying attention big pass plays are the norm across the whole league this season.

Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****
 

It sucked then, we were 26th in passing ans without Sharper's 9 interceptions we would have been much worse. He deserves as much credit for the success of that season as Drew

No player has more INTs since 2007.