da saints

lumm0x · 03-22-2003, 01:14 PM

In regard to WhoDat\'s comments, Mel Mitchell, if he doesn\'t trip on his shoelace coming off the bench is an upgrade over Jay Bellamy. If we get Tebucky Jones, the Jones/Knight offset is a wash at the least. Jones gives more athleticism, better range, equal or better special teams play, and more youth. I love Sammy Knight and truly hope that even if we get Tebucky Jones, I\'d prefer to see us field Knight and Jones and let Mel Mitchell spend another season in spot duty and special teams before Knght leaves.
Ruff upgrades MLB over Clemons (although I like Clemons as a pass rush OLB), Ambrose is better than Ken Irvin, and Gandy is a better LT than Turley when you factor the intangibles. The moves are for the better, but as you state, not taking us to that higher level we need to be at. The draft won\'t do that either, but my hope is the blockbuster player is still to come before we enter training camp.

ssmitty · 03-22-2003, 05:37 PM

just went fishing in texas, dallas area, boy, do i miss buras and empire and grand isle, and just about anywhere in louisiana. don\'t miss the sqeeters and gnats thought....but do miss the homeboys and girls.......and food, ummmmmmmmmm. I will not blow smoke up anyone\'s hole but the saints team of today is the best they\'ve ever had, period.....you can say we had better defenses but not offense from the years i recall...you see teams now like the patriots and bucks winning super bowls and wonder where did they come from? building and smart moves along with luck, thats how....that\'s the direction i finally see the saints heading for, whether they get there is yet to be seen. on the turley trade, it\'s history. another good pick for next year and freed salary cap for this year, i\'m happy. as i said, we need team leaders, with the key word team. there are many diamonds in the rough in the draft and hopefully we\'ll get a few, take care..........smitty p.s. to all, everyone, not just me likes to see mock drafts. let\'s see a few, thanks......

ssmitty · 03-23-2003, 07:30 PM

it is now rumored that jones and loomis have worked out a contract agreement that now only requires the compensation of the patriots to be worked out, this from the physco man. rumors, but from a good source.......smitty

ssmitty · 03-24-2003, 05:29 AM

well, i\'ll just have to face the wrath of the grammar king for that one...my thoughts on this possible rumor coming true is this......i feel the saints are looking for as many non trouble makers as they can get, (that can walk the walk.) I believe they said the deal will be for 5 years and if the front office is satisfied, i will be too.....although i really liked sammy, (he wants more money too and i don\'t blame him) maybe, just maybe, jones will fit in. we shall see, smitty

WhoDat · 03-24-2003, 08:23 AM

You know, you guys are nuts. Billy, I\'m glad that you are happy that I don\'t run this team. Frankly, if you were behind me I\'d be scared. But to all you obvious football geniouses that think we\'ve improved SO much on defense - here you go. Ruff vs. Clemons, side by side.

Ruff
2002 - started 0 games, had 14 tackles, 0 assists, 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 0 forced fumbles, and 0 fumble recoveries
2001 - Started 14 games, had 59 tackles, 15 assists, 1 sack, 0 INTs, 1 forced fumble, and 1 fumble recovery.

Clemons
2002 - Started 15 games, had 58 tackles, 24 assists, 0.5 sacks, 0 INTs, 2 forced fumlbes, and 3 fumble recoveries.
2001 - Started 15 games, had 75 tackles, 18 assists, 13.5 sacks, 1 INT, 2 forced fumbles, and 1 fumble recovery.

Clemons year last year, when his play dropped off considerably, was still better than Ruff\'s BEST year ever. Ruff got beat out for the job last year. Now, could this guy be the next Joe Horn? Have the Saints discovered another talent that the rest of the league just happened to miss? Maybe. But he could just as easily be the next Albert Connell too.

We could get WORSE at MLB. Add Knight\'s leaving to the mix and if we don\'t find a stud safety then our defense got WORSE talent wise. Oh wait, we picked up Ambrose. If they let Craver stay at corner he should end up being better than Ambrose THIS year. Plus a corner in the draft and that Ambrose move will become meaningless.

Sure, there are some good veterans cut in June that we can go sign. I don\'t dispute that. But the top talent at its position goes in the first month of free agency in most cases. The Saints, sat on their hands and giant pile of money and watched the kinds of players we need go by. Can the Saints still improve? Yeah, b/c they haven\'t done anything to get better yet. But you guys watch - if this team does not make significant moves to bring in better players on defense be ready for an average year at best.

Right now, TODAY, our safeties are worse than they were at the end of the season. Our corners are no better. Sure we added depth - but how can you add depth without adding talent in a secondary that is supposedly so terrible? Great, so they added another average player? We don\'t need average, we need good or great. As for MLB, Ruff is a huge question mark. All I know is that strictly by the numbers he is not as good as Clemons. I think when the season starts he probably will be, but you simply don\'t know (see David Sloan, Albert Connell, Curtis Keaton, hell even Norman Hand).

WhoDat · 03-24-2003, 09:50 AM

\"I have some doubts about the current LB. core outside and they may well re-visit those thoughts after the draft, but their lack of intense interest tells me that they feel secure about the LB. core. I can\'t say I agree with their assessment of what they have , especially on the edges, unless Sedrick Hodge really takes his play up a notch or two.\"

- Mike Detillier

BlackandBlue · 03-24-2003, 10:09 AM

I feel more comfortable with Hodge than I do with Allen, but that\'s not really saying all that much, as I\'ve felt we needed to address OLB since the end of last year *cough* Colvin *cough*. But he\'s no longer a FA, and I have this eerie feeling that the Saints will draft Bailey if he\'s there, cause we need help, and Haslett is in love with him. That would be fine with me if, and only if, the Saints are convinced that Hand will return to the type of player he was two years ago, and no, I won\'t hold my breath.
I understand what they are trying to do, but I don\'t have a comfortable feeling about it. Defense wins football games. When Carter/Howard are your impact players on defense, that\'s not really saying a whole lot.

ssmitty · 03-24-2003, 04:40 PM

no one wants to see the saints go all the way more than i do...... well, maybe a few,but again, i state my opinion as others so take it for whatever..........as we sit today on the 24th of march 2003 i\'ll put my money where my mouth is no matter what happens with trades or drafts. whodat, i\'ll bet a case the saints will go one better than last year, 10-6 and make the playoffs, beyond that i may bet more they\'ll go further depending on how they look, no, hell, i\'ll bet a case they\'ll go 10-6 and win the first playoff game, care to make a friendlly wager? smitty

WhoDat · 03-24-2003, 06:51 PM

Are we assuming that there are no major free agent additions on defense this year? B/c, if you\'ve read what I have said - it states that IF they don\'t add MORE high-qulaity free agents on D, then they will not be better. If that scenario holds true then I will absolutely take that bet. If the add a chris claiborne or tebucky jones then all bets are off.

billyh1026 · 03-24-2003, 09:07 PM

1, Of course we\'re nuts. We\'re Saints fans.
2. Frankly, if I were behind you, you should be scared.
3. I could be wrong, but I don\'t think ANYONE on here thinks we\'ve \"improved SO much on defense\". I think that we\'ve got pretty rational minds (well, most of us \"football geniouses\" anyhoo) on here that think we\'re pretty good on D. Not GREAT I\'ll give you, but we don\'t think that the D sucks as much as you think it does WhoDat.
4. Here are better stats on Clemons vs. Ruff over their first 4 years. Not Ruff\'s 3rd & 4th and Clemons\' 5th & 6th. Which is a more even way of comparing the guys than the way you did it. After all, apply that same statistical logic to Deuce and Ricky and you\'d have to say it was a horrible trade and that Deuce would\'ve sucked after his 1st year.

Ruff
Year G GS Tack Asst Sacks Int Frc Fumb Fumb Rec Fumb RYd Def TD
2002 16 0 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2001 16 14 59 15 1 0 1 1 0 0
2000 16 14 54 14 0 1 0 1 0 0
1999 14 0 5 2 0 0 0 0 0 0

Clemons
Year G GS Tack Asst Sacks Int Frc Fumb Fumb Rec Fumb RYd Def TD
2001 16 15 75 18 13.5 1 2 1 0 0
1999 16 0 30 4 3 1 0 1 0 0
1998 16 0 13 2 2 0 0 0 0 0
1997 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Clemons never even started on that vaunted Rams D. Understandable tho with all the studs they had.
Ruff was beat out by a Pro-bowler - Donnie Edwards.
Wait, now I\'m pissed! Why didn\'t we sign Edwards last year??? Aww man...what a bummer. Surely there\'s a post on here from WhoDat somewhere lambasting the Saints for not signing him last year when we could\'ve?
I\'ll refrain from a stop whining comment. We\'ve a slew of draft picks and plenty of time left. The rest of the off-season will play out much better than you\'re forecasting. And, we\'ll be better than you think.

Gator, that grammar thing was pretty funny..... :P

03-22-2003, 01:14 PM	#11
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	da saints In regard to WhoDat\'s comments, Mel Mitchell, if he doesn\'t trip on his shoelace coming off the bench is an upgrade over Jay Bellamy. If we get Tebucky Jones, the Jones/Knight offset is a wash at the least. Jones gives more athleticism, better range, equal or better special teams play, and more youth. I love Sammy Knight and truly hope that even if we get Tebucky Jones, I\'d prefer to see us field Knight and Jones and let Mel Mitchell spend another season in spot duty and special teams before Knght leaves. Ruff upgrades MLB over Clemons (although I like Clemons as a pass rush OLB), Ambrose is better than Ken Irvin, and Gandy is a better LT than Turley when you factor the intangibles. The moves are for the better, but as you state, not taking us to that higher level we need to be at. The draft won\'t do that either, but my hope is the blockbuster player is still to come before we enter training camp.

03-22-2003, 05:37 PM	#12
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879	da saints just went fishing in texas, dallas area, boy, do i miss buras and empire and grand isle, and just about anywhere in louisiana. don\'t miss the sqeeters and gnats thought....but do miss the homeboys and girls.......and food, ummmmmmmmmm. I will not blow smoke up anyone\'s hole but the saints team of today is the best they\'ve ever had, period.....you can say we had better defenses but not offense from the years i recall...you see teams now like the patriots and bucks winning super bowls and wonder where did they come from? building and smart moves along with luck, thats how....that\'s the direction i finally see the saints heading for, whether they get there is yet to be seen. on the turley trade, it\'s history. another good pick for next year and freed salary cap for this year, i\'m happy. as i said, we need team leaders, with the key word team. there are many diamonds in the rough in the draft and hopefully we\'ll get a few, take care..........smitty p.s. to all, everyone, not just me likes to see mock drafts. let\'s see a few, thanks......
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879

03-23-2003, 07:30 PM	#13
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879	da saints it is now rumored that jones and loomis have worked out a contract agreement that now only requires the compensation of the patriots to be worked out, this from the physco man. rumors, but from a good source.......smitty
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879

03-24-2003, 05:29 AM	#14
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879	da saints well, i\'ll just have to face the wrath of the grammar king for that one...my thoughts on this possible rumor coming true is this......i feel the saints are looking for as many non trouble makers as they can get, (that can walk the walk.) I believe they said the deal will be for 5 years and if the front office is satisfied, i will be too.....although i really liked sammy, (he wants more money too and i don\'t blame him) maybe, just maybe, jones will fit in. we shall see, smitty
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879

03-24-2003, 08:23 AM	#15
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	da saints You know, you guys are nuts. Billy, I\'m glad that you are happy that I don\'t run this team. Frankly, if you were behind me I\'d be scared. But to all you obvious football geniouses that think we\'ve improved SO much on defense - here you go. Ruff vs. Clemons, side by side. Ruff 2002 - started 0 games, had 14 tackles, 0 assists, 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 0 forced fumbles, and 0 fumble recoveries 2001 - Started 14 games, had 59 tackles, 15 assists, 1 sack, 0 INTs, 1 forced fumble, and 1 fumble recovery. Clemons 2002 - Started 15 games, had 58 tackles, 24 assists, 0.5 sacks, 0 INTs, 2 forced fumlbes, and 3 fumble recoveries. 2001 - Started 15 games, had 75 tackles, 18 assists, 13.5 sacks, 1 INT, 2 forced fumbles, and 1 fumble recovery. Clemons year last year, when his play dropped off considerably, was still better than Ruff\'s BEST year ever. Ruff got beat out for the job last year. Now, could this guy be the next Joe Horn? Have the Saints discovered another talent that the rest of the league just happened to miss? Maybe. But he could just as easily be the next Albert Connell too. We could get WORSE at MLB. Add Knight\'s leaving to the mix and if we don\'t find a stud safety then our defense got WORSE talent wise. Oh wait, we picked up Ambrose. If they let Craver stay at corner he should end up being better than Ambrose THIS year. Plus a corner in the draft and that Ambrose move will become meaningless. Sure, there are some good veterans cut in June that we can go sign. I don\'t dispute that. But the top talent at its position goes in the first month of free agency in most cases. The Saints, sat on their hands and giant pile of money and watched the kinds of players we need go by. Can the Saints still improve? Yeah, b/c they haven\'t done anything to get better yet. But you guys watch - if this team does not make significant moves to bring in better players on defense be ready for an average year at best. Right now, TODAY, our safeties are worse than they were at the end of the season. Our corners are no better. Sure we added depth - but how can you add depth without adding talent in a secondary that is supposedly so terrible? Great, so they added another average player? We don\'t need average, we need good or great. As for MLB, Ruff is a huge question mark. All I know is that strictly by the numbers he is not as good as Clemons. I think when the season starts he probably will be, but you simply don\'t know (see David Sloan, Albert Connell, Curtis Keaton, hell even Norman Hand).
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

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03-24-2003, 09:50 AM	#16
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	da saints \"I have some doubts about the current LB. core outside and they may well re-visit those thoughts after the draft, but their lack of intense interest tells me that they feel secure about the LB. core. I can\'t say I agree with their assessment of what they have , especially on the edges, unless Sedrick Hodge really takes his play up a notch or two.\" - Mike Detillier
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

03-24-2003, 10:09 AM	#17
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	da saints I feel more comfortable with Hodge than I do with Allen, but that\'s not really saying all that much, as I\'ve felt we needed to address OLB since the end of last year cough Colvin cough. But he\'s no longer a FA, and I have this eerie feeling that the Saints will draft Bailey if he\'s there, cause we need help, and Haslett is in love with him. That would be fine with me if, and only if, the Saints are convinced that Hand will return to the type of player he was two years ago, and no, I won\'t hold my breath. I understand what they are trying to do, but I don\'t have a comfortable feeling about it. Defense wins football games. When Carter/Howard are your impact players on defense, that\'s not really saying a whole lot.
	The waiting drove me mad.... I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik?

03-24-2003, 04:40 PM	#18
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879	da saints no one wants to see the saints go all the way more than i do...... well, maybe a few,but again, i state my opinion as others so take it for whatever..........as we sit today on the 24th of march 2003 i\'ll put my money where my mouth is no matter what happens with trades or drafts. whodat, i\'ll bet a case the saints will go one better than last year, 10-6 and make the playoffs, beyond that i may bet more they\'ll go further depending on how they look, no, hell, i\'ll bet a case they\'ll go 10-6 and win the first playoff game, care to make a friendlly wager? smitty
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879

03-24-2003, 06:51 PM	#19
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	da saints Are we assuming that there are no major free agent additions on defense this year? B/c, if you\'ve read what I have said - it states that IF they don\'t add MORE high-qulaity free agents on D, then they will not be better. If that scenario holds true then I will absolutely take that bet. If the add a chris claiborne or tebucky jones then all bets are off.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

03-24-2003, 09:07 PM	#20
billyh1026 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 213	da saints 1, Of course we\'re nuts. We\'re Saints fans. 2. Frankly, if I were behind you, you should be scared. 3. I could be wrong, but I don\'t think ANYONE on here thinks we\'ve \"improved SO much on defense\". I think that we\'ve got pretty rational minds (well, most of us \"football geniouses\" anyhoo) on here that think we\'re pretty good on D. Not GREAT I\'ll give you, but we don\'t think that the D sucks as much as you think it does WhoDat. 4. Here are better stats on Clemons vs. Ruff over their first 4 years. Not Ruff\'s 3rd & 4th and Clemons\' 5th & 6th. Which is a more even way of comparing the guys than the way you did it. After all, apply that same statistical logic to Deuce and Ricky and you\'d have to say it was a horrible trade and that Deuce would\'ve sucked after his 1st year. Ruff Year G GS Tack Asst Sacks Int Frc Fumb Fumb Rec Fumb RYd Def TD 2002 16 0 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2001 16 14 59 15 1 0 1 1 0 0 2000 16 14 54 14 0 1 0 1 0 0 1999 14 0 5 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 Clemons Year G GS Tack Asst Sacks Int Frc Fumb Fumb Rec Fumb RYd Def TD 2001 16 15 75 18 13.5 1 2 1 0 0 1999 16 0 30 4 3 1 0 1 0 0 1998 16 0 13 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 1997 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Clemons never even started on that vaunted Rams D. Understandable tho with all the studs they had. Ruff was beat out by a Pro-bowler - Donnie Edwards. Wait, now I\'m pissed! Why didn\'t we sign Edwards last year??? Aww man...what a bummer. Surely there\'s a post on here from WhoDat somewhere lambasting the Saints for not signing him last year when we could\'ve? I\'ll refrain from a stop whining comment. We\'ve a slew of draft picks and plenty of time left. The rest of the off-season will play out much better than you\'re forecasting. And, we\'ll be better than you think. Gator, that grammar thing was pretty funny..... :P
billyh1026 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 213	Dean Vernon Wormer: Mr. Hoover, president of Delta house? One point six; four C's and an F. A fine example you set! Daniel Simpson Day... HAS no grade point average. All courses incomplete. Mr. Blu - MR. BLUTARSKY... ZERO POINT ZERO. John 'Bluto' Blutarsky: Christ. Seven years of college down the drain. Might as well join the f@$%ing Peace Corps.