Will you be upset...

Euphoria · 04-21-2006, 11:26 AM

I think this draft everyone will be happy as long as the needs are at least addressed.

BrooksMustGo · 04-21-2006, 11:52 AM

I was just curious to know, if you will be extremely unhappy if they don't pick the player you like?

The history of the organization is full of examples of drafting/trading for players that I don't like and don't think we can win with. I'm still with them though.

They could bring Heath Shuler in as QB coach and I'd still be with them. Might not be real happy about it though.

xan · 04-21-2006, 12:58 PM

dammit, I'm tired of watching the team draft linemen in the top ten of the 1st round.

OK, I've got a beef. D'Brick, while a fine human being and a large and athletic specimen, played on a pretty less than average team in a fairly weak conference. His team didn't beat anyone of note during his tenure. While he may have been the best tackle on the team, he didn't consistently face the best pass rusher or run stuffer due to this assessment. His teams beat up on inferior competition and struggled mightily against teams with balanced playing ability on the D-line, allowing at least 2 major sacks per game. While D'B may not have graded against these sacks per se, he certainly wasn't tested against the likes of a Julius Peppers for 4 quarters over 16 games. An average tackle in the SEC endured more hardships than this guy.

So how do we knock Williams, who's got a relatively similar profile, without knocking D'Brick? At least with Brown, he played in a serious conference and post season with better and deeper opposition, and he was a 13th selection. If I am missing something here, I'm hoping that you all will chime in and set me straight.

pakowitz · 04-21-2006, 01:04 PM

i think i will be happy with pretty much anyone.... there is alot of talented players at the top of this draft and anyone of them would help our team out greatly, whether it be our greatest need or not...

saintswhodi · 04-21-2006, 01:12 PM

You raise a good point xan. Here's why I take D'Brick over Mario though, consistency. D'Brick would have been the top tackle last year had he come out, he was the top tackle in the country this year, and two years ago as a sophomore he was rated as a high T. williams did it all THIS PAST YEAR. That's it. And what he did wasn't that impressive. He just came out of nowhere, like a Kyle Boller or akili smith, where a good senior season pushes a player to the top of the draft, no matter how inconsistent or unimpressive he was before that. Brick could have come out in any of the last 3 drafts and been the top tackle. No matter who he has played against, he has consistently rated out high the last 3 years. Mario on the other hand, one year wonder, workout warrior.

I won't even get into why i'd take Hawk over Mario. Hawk is my number one guy, and Mario is not even close in my book.

xan · 04-21-2006, 01:25 PM

Thanks for the distinction on D'Brick vs Williams, whodi. Yet D'Brick grades out as the top lineman because he stands out on a carpy team. Why challenge him when you can go after 4 other weak links? in the only game they won against a putatively superior team (FSU, who wasn't all that last year) their qb was, and I watched that game, running for his genetic life. If FSU could have just gotten their hands on him as he was scrambling around, he was going to get pummelled. No linemen were saving him from the onslaught, including D'Brick.

There aren't going to be the kind of 3rd rate DE's to face in the NFL, and particularly in the NFC South. 8 games against all world talent. D'Brick's not faced anything like that for a quarter much less a whole game. I fear that folks have fallen in love with his dimensions as opposed to his accomplishments.

So, I guess that if not taking a skill position with the number 1, I'm with you on Hawk. It will be a blown opportunity otherwise.

gandhi1007 · 04-21-2006, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by xan

dammit, I'm tired of watching the team draft linemen in the top ten of the 1st round.

OK, I've got a beef. D'Brick, while a fine human being and a large and athletic specimen, played on a pretty less than average team in a fairly weak conference. His team didn't beat anyone of note during his tenure. While he may have been the best tackle on the team, he didn't consistently face the best pass rusher or run stuffer due to this assessment. His teams beat up on inferior competition and struggled mightily against teams with balanced playing ability on the D-line, allowing at least 2 major sacks per game. While D'B may not have graded against these sacks per se, he certainly wasn't tested against the likes of a Julius Peppers for 4 quarters over 16 games. An average tackle in the SEC endured more hardships than this guy.

So how do we knock Williams, who's got a relatively similar profile, without knocking D'Brick? At least with Brown, he played in a serious conference and post season with better and deeper opposition, and he was a 13th selection. If I am missing something here, I'm hoping that you all will chime in and set me straight.

While I would hate to see the Saints draft yet another O-lineman with our 1st rounder (I want Hawk), I cannot agree with your assessment of D'Brickashaw Ferguson. He did in fact face five of the top 20 rated defensive ends in this year's draft & handled them with ease. Here's some of the DE's he's faced this year alone: Mathias Kiwanuka-Boston College (who Brick treated like his personal biyatch in the Senior Bowl), Kamerion Wimbley-Florida State, Darryl Tapp-Virginia Tech, Ryan LaCasse-Syracuse, & Eric Henderson-Georgia Tech.

"Super Mario" on the other hand, has not impressed me as much. He has not faced great O-lineman & he has help w/ N.C. States other DE who just so happens to run in the 4.4's. Before this year, this guy was unknown. After a great workout, all of a sudden he's the next Julias Peppers. Uhmm...Peppers put up those numbers every year against some very good OT's.

saintswhodi · 04-21-2006, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by xan

Thanks for the distinction on D'Brick vs Williams, whodi. Yet D'Brick grades out as the top lineman because he stands out on a carpy team. Why challenge him when you can go after 4 other weak links? in the only game they won against a putatively superior team (FSU, who wasn't all that last year) their qb was, and I watched that game, running for his genetic life. If FSU could have just gotten their hands on him as he was scrambling around, he was going to get pummelled. No linemen were saving him from the onslaught, including D'Brick.

There aren't going to be the kind of 3rd rate DE's to face in the NFL, and particularly in the NFC South. 8 games against all world talent. D'Brick's not faced anything like that for a quarter much less a whole game. I fear that folks have fallen in love with his dimensions as opposed to his accomplishments.

So, I guess that if not taking a skill position with the number 1, I'm with you on Hawk. It will be a blown opportunity otherwise.

Ghandi did more research than I did. And raised very good points on who D'Brick HAS played. One thing you know for SURE about Mario as well, if it's a big game, he won't have an impact. Period. And neither will he be such a significant disruption that the rest of his team on defense will overpower you. Like ghandi said, they had Manny Lawson at the other DE, and he runs a 4.4. And is a decent player. If Mario was getting all this attention, shouldn't Lawson ahve been all world? How many guys can you double team?

Also, check out ANY highlights on Mario. ANY. They will ALL be against scrub teams. He has NOTHING impressive in any big game. That guy isn't gonna be as good as he seems, and I feel very strongly about that.

JimBone · 04-21-2006, 01:40 PM

You know whodi, i agree with you on your outlook on Williams. He didnt do much against the good competition and he did take plays off and he did disappear at times. But he is going to be a solid-great player in the NFL. There is no way he can be a unanimous choice for number 1 defensive player in the draft, possible best player in the draft, and all of his comparisons from the "Professionals that do this for a living" are to Bruce Smith, Reggie White, and Julius Peppers. Now i dont want him but at the same time, i think he will be a very good ball player.

saintswhodi · 04-21-2006, 02:19 PM

These same "pros" graded Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Tony Mandarich, Bosworth, Courtney Brown, Dan Wilkinson, etc. as the best in their drafts too. They are nowhere near infallible. When I speak about williams, I am mainly speaking of "bust potential." I think he has the most of any of the top picks in the draft. I also didn't say he may not be good, I said he won't be as good as he seems. he can still be good, but right now some people will have you believing he is some kinda defensive god. I don't see that at all.

04-21-2006, 11:26 AM	#11
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	RE: Re: Will you be upset... I think this draft everyone will be happy as long as the needs are at least addressed.

04-21-2006, 11:52 AM	#12
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	RE: Re: Will you be upset... I was just curious to know, if you will be extremely unhappy if they don't pick the player you like? The history of the organization is full of examples of drafting/trading for players that I don't like and don't think we can win with. I'm still with them though. They could bring Heath Shuler in as QB coach and I'd still be with them. Might not be real happy about it though.

04-21-2006, 12:58 PM	#13
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,355 Blog Entries: 34	RE: Re: Will you be upset... dammit, I'm tired of watching the team draft linemen in the top ten of the 1st round. OK, I've got a beef. D'Brick, while a fine human being and a large and athletic specimen, played on a pretty less than average team in a fairly weak conference. His team didn't beat anyone of note during his tenure. While he may have been the best tackle on the team, he didn't consistently face the best pass rusher or run stuffer due to this assessment. His teams beat up on inferior competition and struggled mightily against teams with balanced playing ability on the D-line, allowing at least 2 major sacks per game. While D'B may not have graded against these sacks per se, he certainly wasn't tested against the likes of a Julius Peppers for 4 quarters over 16 games. An average tackle in the SEC endured more hardships than this guy. So how do we knock Williams, who's got a relatively similar profile, without knocking D'Brick? At least with Brown, he played in a serious conference and post season with better and deeper opposition, and he was a 13th selection. If I am missing something here, I'm hoping that you all will chime in and set me straight.
	Calvin: "I wish I was a Tiger." Hobbes: "Common lament."

04-21-2006, 01:04 PM	#14
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	RE: Re: Will you be upset... i think i will be happy with pretty much anyone.... there is alot of talented players at the top of this draft and anyone of them would help our team out greatly, whether it be our greatest need or not...

04-21-2006, 01:25 PM	#16
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,355 Blog Entries: 34	Thanks for the distinction on D'Brick vs Williams, whodi. Yet D'Brick grades out as the top lineman because he stands out on a carpy team. Why challenge him when you can go after 4 other weak links? in the only game they won against a putatively superior team (FSU, who wasn't all that last year) their qb was, and I watched that game, running for his genetic life. If FSU could have just gotten their hands on him as he was scrambling around, he was going to get pummelled. No linemen were saving him from the onslaught, including D'Brick. There aren't going to be the kind of 3rd rate DE's to face in the NFL, and particularly in the NFC South. 8 games against all world talent. D'Brick's not faced anything like that for a quarter much less a whole game. I fear that folks have fallen in love with his dimensions as opposed to his accomplishments. So, I guess that if not taking a skill position with the number 1, I'm with you on Hawk. It will be a blown opportunity otherwise.
	Calvin: "I wish I was a Tiger." Hobbes: "Common lament."

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04-21-2006, 01:12 PM	#15
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	You raise a good point xan. Here's why I take D'Brick over Mario though, consistency. D'Brick would have been the top tackle last year had he come out, he was the top tackle in the country this year, and two years ago as a sophomore he was rated as a high T. williams did it all THIS PAST YEAR. That's it. And what he did wasn't that impressive. He just came out of nowhere, like a Kyle Boller or akili smith, where a good senior season pushes a player to the top of the draft, no matter how inconsistent or unimpressive he was before that. Brick could have come out in any of the last 3 drafts and been the top tackle. No matter who he has played against, he has consistently rated out high the last 3 years. Mario on the other hand, one year wonder, workout warrior. I won't even get into why i'd take Hawk over Mario. Hawk is my number one guy, and Mario is not even close in my book.

04-21-2006, 01:26 PM	#17
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Re: RE: Re: Will you be upset... Originally Posted by xan dammit, I'm tired of watching the team draft linemen in the top ten of the 1st round. OK, I've got a beef. D'Brick, while a fine human being and a large and athletic specimen, played on a pretty less than average team in a fairly weak conference. His team didn't beat anyone of note during his tenure. While he may have been the best tackle on the team, he didn't consistently face the best pass rusher or run stuffer due to this assessment. His teams beat up on inferior competition and struggled mightily against teams with balanced playing ability on the D-line, allowing at least 2 major sacks per game. While D'B may not have graded against these sacks per se, he certainly wasn't tested against the likes of a Julius Peppers for 4 quarters over 16 games. An average tackle in the SEC endured more hardships than this guy. So how do we knock Williams, who's got a relatively similar profile, without knocking D'Brick? At least with Brown, he played in a serious conference and post season with better and deeper opposition, and he was a 13th selection. If I am missing something here, I'm hoping that you all will chime in and set me straight. While I would hate to see the Saints draft yet another O-lineman with our 1st rounder (I want Hawk), I cannot agree with your assessment of D'Brickashaw Ferguson. He did in fact face five of the top 20 rated defensive ends in this year's draft & handled them with ease. Here's some of the DE's he's faced this year alone: Mathias Kiwanuka-Boston College (who Brick treated like his personal biyatch in the Senior Bowl), Kamerion Wimbley-Florida State, Darryl Tapp-Virginia Tech, Ryan LaCasse-Syracuse, & Eric Henderson-Georgia Tech. "Super Mario" on the other hand, has not impressed me as much. He has not faced great O-lineman & he has help w/ N.C. States other DE who just so happens to run in the 4.4's. Before this year, this guy was unknown. After a great workout, all of a sudden he's the next Julias Peppers. Uhmm...Peppers put up those numbers every year against some very good OT's.
	http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...gs/12-3006.jpg ______________________________ KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE! -G.I. Joe

04-21-2006, 01:35 PM	#18
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by xan Thanks for the distinction on D'Brick vs Williams, whodi. Yet D'Brick grades out as the top lineman because he stands out on a carpy team. Why challenge him when you can go after 4 other weak links? in the only game they won against a putatively superior team (FSU, who wasn't all that last year) their qb was, and I watched that game, running for his genetic life. If FSU could have just gotten their hands on him as he was scrambling around, he was going to get pummelled. No linemen were saving him from the onslaught, including D'Brick. There aren't going to be the kind of 3rd rate DE's to face in the NFL, and particularly in the NFC South. 8 games against all world talent. D'Brick's not faced anything like that for a quarter much less a whole game. I fear that folks have fallen in love with his dimensions as opposed to his accomplishments. So, I guess that if not taking a skill position with the number 1, I'm with you on Hawk. It will be a blown opportunity otherwise. Ghandi did more research than I did. And raised very good points on who D'Brick HAS played. One thing you know for SURE about Mario as well, if it's a big game, he won't have an impact. Period. And neither will he be such a significant disruption that the rest of his team on defense will overpower you. Like ghandi said, they had Manny Lawson at the other DE, and he runs a 4.4. And is a decent player. If Mario was getting all this attention, shouldn't Lawson ahve been all world? How many guys can you double team? Also, check out ANY highlights on Mario. ANY. They will ALL be against scrub teams. He has NOTHING impressive in any big game. That guy isn't gonna be as good as he seems, and I feel very strongly about that.

04-21-2006, 01:40 PM	#19
JimBone 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Thibodaux, La Posts: 614	You know whodi, i agree with you on your outlook on Williams. He didnt do much against the good competition and he did take plays off and he did disappear at times. But he is going to be a solid-great player in the NFL. There is no way he can be a unanimous choice for number 1 defensive player in the draft, possible best player in the draft, and all of his comparisons from the "Professionals that do this for a living" are to Bruce Smith, Reggie White, and Julius Peppers. Now i dont want him but at the same time, i think he will be a very good ball player.

04-21-2006, 02:19 PM	#20
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	These same "pros" graded Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Tony Mandarich, Bosworth, Courtney Brown, Dan Wilkinson, etc. as the best in their drafts too. They are nowhere near infallible. When I speak about williams, I am mainly speaking of "bust potential." I think he has the most of any of the top picks in the draft. I also didn't say he may not be good, I said he won't be as good as he seems. he can still be good, but right now some people will have you believing he is some kinda defensive god. I don't see that at all.