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Leadership question answered

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; NEWS ALERT!! Get over it, no matter if Jake should have been subbed for Aaron in 2002 when his hsoulder went out....Jake is not on our team. I know he\'s a good leader, I\'ve seen him play in person and ...

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Old 02-01-2004, 11:55 AM   #11
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Leadership question answered

NEWS ALERT!!

Get over it, no matter if Jake should have been subbed for Aaron in 2002 when his hsoulder went out....Jake is not on our team. I know he\'s a good leader, I\'ve seen him play in person and the kid has heart.

BUT....Jake is a Panther and not a Saint. I saw something during the Cowboys game this past season (sure the game was meaningless, I\'m sure I\'ll hear that). I\'m trying to remember what it was but if I remember right Brooks sure was extremely supportive of his players in that game. I\'m sorry if I can\'t remember specifics (which I expect to criticized on) because I have erased the 2003 season from my memory in prep for the 2004 season, but Aaron consistently wet up to his players after big plays and TDs and patted them on the back, hugged them, etc. Also, didn\'t Aaron lay a huge block during the River City Relay?

Aaron does have his bad points but so does Jake. We all have to be bit more open minded and not just see what we want to see. It\'s like chicken little who makes everyone believe the sky is falling; everyone points out all the bad things Aaron does and not the good things and then here we are talking about how much better some other teams QB is than ours.

We have a good QB people. Several QBs have needed time to grow before greatness...one that sticks out is Brett Favre. There\'s a quote appropriate for this....

\"Rome wasn\'t built in a day\"
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Old 02-01-2004, 04:11 PM   #12
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Leadership question answered

\"Rome wasn\'t built in a day\"
Agreed

But wasn\'t it\'s lackadasical leadership that caused it\'s fall from greatness ???...
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Old 02-01-2004, 04:22 PM   #13
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Leadership question answered

alsaints113.

Look, I already agreed with you that Jake is not our QB in your earlier post. Also, your point about AB during the Cowboys game is on topic, and thank you - THAT was worth considering.

HOWEVER, quit trying to make people stop discussing things. If you\'re not interested, that is fine, but other people are. I\'m still not sure why you persist in telling people that they boring you?
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Old 02-01-2004, 04:53 PM   #14
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Leadership question answered

JKool,

Never in my last post did I say people were boring me and never did I say for people to stop discussing this topic.

Maybe you should read a little closer. I was simply saying that both Jake and Aaron have their plusses and minuses and that some people have to be a bit open minded about the whole thing. Some people are Jake Jake Jake and some are Aaron Aaron Aaron. I for one consider myself Saints Saints Saints and feel that this being a Saints fan site, everyone else should be too.

saintz08....you were right about Rome, but that lackadaisacal leadership came after their greatness. We havent gotten there yet so lets hope once we do that it doesnt happen to us....at least not for a while (like the Eagles)
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Old 02-01-2004, 05:00 PM   #15
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Leadership question answered

Sure seems like there are some issues within the team itself .....

News alert alasaint , Joe Horn is the Saints starting receiver ....


\"I knew what kind of guy Jake was two months after I got here,\" Joe Horn, the Saints\' star receiver, said this week. \"He was a leader. Leaders are born, man.

\"I don\'t care how many classes you take. They can\'t teach you how to be a leader.\"

He\'s right. You can learn Spanish. You can learn how to cook. You can learn good table manners. But you can\'t learn leadership.

Horn emphasized that he wasn\'t criticizing Brooks. I\'m not here to bash Brooks either. I\'m here to bash the man responsible for denying Delhomme a chance to start with the Saints.
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Old 02-02-2004, 01:00 AM   #16
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Leadership question answered

alsaints113, I did read your post, and I was commenting on this sentence: \"Get over it, no matter if Jake should have been subbed for Aaron in 2002 when his hsoulder went out....Jake is not on our team.\" This sure seemed like a call for people to shut up. I\'m sorry that I must have taken it the wrong way, but certainly you can see how someone might misinterpret such a sentence. I don\'t think that my reading was the problem.

Also, I\'m not sure what is making you think that people here are not \"SAINTS SAINTS SAINTS\"? Jake was on our team, and no matter how boring I find it, people are talking about what the SAINTS organization is doing right or wrong, which is clearly about the Saints. Sometimes we talk about great teams of the past; that isn\'t wrong is it? Is talking about people like Sam Mills wrong (or somehow Un-Saintly) because he isn\'t on our team anymore?

08, I saw your quote earlier and tried to resist (of course this is not why you\'re posting it, so don\'t take this as a comment against you or your post): \"I don\'t care how many classes you take. They can\'t teach you how to be a leader.\" Joe is right about this, but only in context. What he means is that CLASSES cannot teach you to be a leader, but certainly he doesn\'t mean that you cannot learn (whether directly or indirectly) to be a leader. Surely Joe Horn does not have a well enough developed theory of genetics to make him think that being a leader is purely genetic (as I noted earlier). Right?

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks :cool:
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Old 02-02-2004, 01:28 AM   #17
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08, I saw your quote earlier and tried to resist (of course this is not why you\'re posting it, so don\'t take this as a comment against you or your post): \"I don\'t care how many classes you take. They can\'t teach you how to be a leader.\" Joe is right about this, but only in context. What he means is that CLASSES cannot teach you to be a leader, but certainly he doesn\'t mean that you cannot learn (whether directly or indirectly) to be a leader. Surely Joe Horn does not have a well enough developed theory of genetics to make him think that being a leader is purely genetic (as I noted earlier). Right?
See your point JKool , and between you and I neither one of us probably expects Joe Horn to ever end up on a trial stand as the leading foremost authority on learned leadership skills .

The interesting part is that Horn says \"I don\'t care how many classes you take. They can\'t teach you how to be a leader.\" Now to the knowledge of Saints fans , Brooks was the one taking those so called \" leadership classes \" .

Horn most likely has been chewed by the Saints organization for the receiver coach firing comments . He had made some comments about Brooks before the Giants game and supposedly so did Mc Allister , they made reference to them during the game and that was some point as to why Horn gave Brooks a ball .

Turley was suspected of calling Brooks out and challengeing him and his leadership ability , Horn has made these statements and suddenly McAllister supposedly wants to renegotiate .

The offense could be melting before our very eyes . Why else is Horn willing to put his job on the line and bash the Head Coach ???


[Edited on 2/2/2004 by saintz08]

\"Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn\'t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.\" - George S. Patton
On another note, I\'ll take a bite of that crow 08. - Saintfan
Brooks is a moron!! - Halo
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Old 02-02-2004, 01:45 AM   #18
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Leadership question answered

These are dark days my friends....dark days....I would be (and I am sure everyone else in here would too) be extremely mad if Deuce were to leave because of all our coaching/management problems....which is what it comes down to really, not the players we have or dont have but what our coaches do or dont do with them.

I\'ll stop there before I say something that gets me attacked...seems I\'ve been pushing buttons lately.
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Old 02-02-2004, 09:57 AM   #19
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Leadership question answered

What he means is that CLASSES cannot teach you to be a leader, but certainly he doesn\'t mean that you cannot learn (whether directly or indirectly) to be a leader.
Yes, that\'s exactly what he means.

\"He was a leader. Leaders are born, man.\"

\"He\'s right. You can learn Spanish. You can learn how to cook. You can learn good table manners. But you can\'t learn leadership. \"

That to me says you can\'t learn leadership - verbatim. I\'m not sure how else that can be interpretted other than, you can\'t learn leadership. Is someone else joining the INFERENCE squad? Leaders are born - Joe is right. You\'ve got it or you don\'t. That\'s always been my experience. But if you argue that, show me an example of a time when a guy was considered not to have what it takes to LEAD and then proved later that he LEARNED what it takes.


\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 02-02-2004, 01:18 PM   #20
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Leadership question answered

WhoDat,

1. The burden of proof is not on me here. If you want to claim leaders are born that way, you need to show me how genetics alone plays a role in being a leader. I do not have to show that environment plays a role in teaching someone to be a leader - my position is much more reasonable and widely accepted.

2. Teaching doesn\'t merely mean being sitting someone down and telling them stuff. The world teaches us all the time. We LEARN not to stick our hand in the fire, we LEARN to communicate with each other (which is surely required to be a leader), and we LEARN how to use our physical skills on the field, and the list goes on.

3. EVERY leader is an example of someone who has learned to be a leader when he was not before. No one at the age of 4 months is a leader (just to be as antagonistic as possible)! However, as I noted in an earlier thread, people learn to be leaders from role models (though, I concede that some of what makes a person a leader is genetic - such as intelligence). People like parents, coaches, heroes and so on all give us clues to what it takes to be a leader. In emulating them, we LEARN (and are taught by them) to be leaders.

Maybe we are just disagreeing about what it means to learn to be a leader, but the above is what I meant. I\'m sorry if I wasn\'t clear. However, I certainly don\'t think that because someone who currently participates in the NFL said something (whether it is Horn or Parcells or whoever), it must be true. I\'m certain you don\'t think that either. If I have to make an infrence, I\'m not sure why that is bad - I was merely trying to see if what Joe said has ANY merit at all. Sometimes, to be nice, it is better to be charitable to the speaker - i.e. infer that they meant something much smarter than what they said.

Whew. Sorry. I got a bit carried away there, but now that I\'ve written it, I\'m just going to post it. Feel free to respond or not.

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks :cool:
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