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Personnel Question

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Before I start, I need to point out a few things. 1. I realize that different teams and coaches have different styles. Payton is an offensive guy. Dan Snyder is a pay too much guy. Belichick has changed a couple ...

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Old 01-16-2012, 12:23 PM   #1
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Personnel Question

Before I start, I need to point out a few things.
1. I realize that different teams and coaches have different styles. Payton is an offensive guy. Dan Snyder is a pay too much guy. Belichick has changed a couple times but always makes due. Parcells is a defensive guy. You can't be both. If a team with a top 3 offense has a top 3 defense also, it won't last long due to contracts and cap figures.
2. We will be an offensive team as long as Payton is here and I'm glad to have him.
Here's my question:
I see players on other teams like Ray Lewis and Patrick Willis for example who are/were top talents at their position. But the Saints and many other teams have drafted first and second round defensive players and the ones who go to teams with the Ray Lewis end up getting developed while the rest go somewhere and suck. That's not an absolute, but NaVarro Bowman and Terrell Suggs/Ed Reed weren't accidental. Terrell Suggs was a top 10 prospect and I get that. But players like Will Smith, Charles Grant, Sedrick Ellis, Johnathan Sullivan. Geez! Will Smith is the best turnout but he's getting paid way too much for his output. People like Drew Brees turn a Darren Sproles who was only worth 3 million a year into a 6 million guy. Will Smith doesn't do that. Jon Vilma doesn't do that. He should but doesn't. What is it going to take to get that player on defense that can not only produce and maybe even dominate, but more importantly be that coach on the field guy? We're spending some big money right now on defense and none of those investments are yielding what we had hoped. I realize that some of these players come out of the draft and just pan out, but there is no reason we can't pick up a LB or FS in free angency and pay well for him.
Mario Williams is up for grabs as well as a couple others.
If we're going to lose the number of starters next year that we all project due to Nicks and Brees' contracts, we need to consider having a better defense.

That was a big long for a forum post. I hope some serious replies come in. I don't understand why this is.
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:37 PM   #2
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A little luck?

I mean we spend the money and the draft picks... so it's not like we are cheap and aren't trying. It just hasn't panned out.
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:40 PM   #3
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I understand what you're saying, but if we're bring back our key players (Brees, Nicks, etc) I don't see how we can afford that Mario Williams type player.
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:53 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by papz View Post
A little luck?

I mean we spend the money and the draft picks... so it's not like we are cheap and aren't trying. It just hasn't panned out.
I agree, How do players like Colston and PT not get drafted high. Will Smith, Sed Ellis, Malcom Jenkins, Cam Jordan, Patrick Robinson all 1st rounders. Just has not worked out as well as we hoped. Can not say that they have not tried. Now if a New DC comes in and these guys become studs? ??????
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:04 PM   #5
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IMO our front office talent finders are better at finding offensive talent than defensive talent. It is just sickening when you look a lot of players, even some you mentioned, we could have had but chose someone else and had no where near the output.

Somebody somewhere, I don't remember, put up such a list about who we picked a certain year and who we could have had. I remember Ed Reed was one of them and so was Clay Mathews.
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:14 PM   #6
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How many teams are kicking themselves in the rear for passing on the chance to get Brees. Look at the Dolphins QB situation. You really never no what you are getting. 40 times Bench reps, vertical jump, Wonderlic scores etc. Sometimes teams just miss evaluating talent.
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:56 PM   #7
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I get all that, but if we take a free agent (and yes, I read we can't afford Mario), he'll be what we expect because he's proven. Darren Sharper gave us that, I think. In 09. But now, Vilma looks slow, Smith looks fat and the DB's look inexperienced. Porter (I hope he stays) and Greer are good but Jenkins doesn't play FS well enough in GW's previous scheme to make plays consistently. You'd think Jenkins coming from a corner position and moving to FS, he'd have better cover skills and range. But I think GW leaves him so far out in center field, he doesn't have the opportunity to learn the FS position or even play well.
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:57 PM   #8
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That's a pretty good question. We have let or DC go and hopefully his replacement can evaluate talent then make the necessary cuts while bringing in the talent he needs. We are going to be up against the cap this year and will be limited with funds for the defensive side of the ball. We must resign Drew. Then we must give him back the protection that got him here and resign Nicks. After that you resign his go to receiver Marques Colston.
Once these key pieces are back in place we can work around the rest of it. There are some under achievers that we need to jettison. I'm a little worried about players like Dunbar who's contract is up and Vilma has one more year on his. Can we afford to keep him as well as several other players that seemed to emerge at the end of the season? We have to cut costs somewhere to pay to keep the offense intact.
This shortened off season saw several defenses go from the bottom to the top in defense with just a few changes. Good question. Who Dat!


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Old 01-16-2012, 08:19 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by jcp026 View Post
I don't see how we can afford that Mario Williams type player.
I think Mario Williams is going to get paid alot less than what everyone seems to be thinking. He could be a real option.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:20 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by aquaboogie View Post
I agree, How do players like Colston and PT not get drafted high. Will Smith, Sed Ellis, Malcom Jenkins, Cam Jordan, Patrick Robinson all 1st rounders. Just has not worked out as well as we hoped. Can not say that they have not tried. Now if a New DC comes in and these guys become studs? ??????
Now if a New DC comes in and these guys become studs? ??????[/QUOTE]

We can only hope! That would be amazing to see a big turn around
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