Breaking the locks of "Bountygate."

BIGEASY504 · 03-05-2012, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

What about the Forty Whiners and that hit on Pierre Thomas... was that a bounty hit?

Point is every team does it to some degree.

This league is soooo shook, the hit on Pierre in the 49ers game was clearly helmet to helmet hit and was not called and when it’s a receiver they get the call, once a player gets the ball in which he’s actually defenseless during the act off catching/securing the ball but once done and the football move is made than he’s a runner. PT got hit in the head and it was not called. These rule are not clear

SloMotion · 03-05-2012, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by BGWhoDat

I'm going to just make an assumption Williams had no part of the "injury" aspect just of the "big hit" one. He doesn't acknowledge it in his apology, and the NFL cites only Vilma saying he would pay directly for injury.

I'm thinking this was a players pool for the injuries.

I just watched a good video in this thread posted by Rickh: http://blackandgold.com/saints/41762...oint-view.html ... it really gives a good perspective from some former player's point of view, Mike Golic in particular.

As this goes forward, I would just recommend people read your blog & watch this video. It sheds quite a bit of light on the subject.

The Saints are gonna' get fined, but they'll be Ok. This too will pass.

SloMotion · 03-05-2012, 08:31 PM

bump.

BGWhoDat · 03-08-2012, 10:28 PM

Ty. Bump.

vpheughan · 03-09-2012, 06:39 PM

The one thing that bothers me the most is how much of a head case players are. They make millions in salary yet get all lathered up over a $1,000 bonus? I have an idea for a new league the IBFL incentive based football league. The base pay is $0 you "earn" you money based on how you play. The statement "It isn't about the money" seems to be true. A million a year to play, well ok. What's that? a bonus of $300.00 for a good hit. YAHOO!!!!! now you're talking money!!!!

BGWhoDat · 03-09-2012, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by vpheughan

The one thing that bothers me the most is how much of a head case players are. They make millions in salary yet get all lathered up over a $1,000 bonus? I have an idea for a new league the IBFL incentive based football league. The base pay is $0 you "earn" you money based on how you play. The statement "It isn't about the money" seems to be true. A million a year to play, well ok. What's that? a bonus of $300.00 for a good hit. YAHOO!!!!! now you're talking money!!!!

I look to it as a 9-5 job. You get paid hourly, but the extra cash in your pocket for a good sale, being top employee of the week etc is extra motivation. Everyone likes a little extra cash even if you're a millionaire. Or else they'd never want another contract. >_<

SloMotion · 03-10-2012, 05:34 AM

I don't think they get all 'lathered' up about the payments either, it's been pretty well acknowledged that the average defensive player's mindset is to annihilate their opponent wether they're getting a bonus or not.

It's a simple reward/recognition system. In college, it's putting stickers on a helmet for a good play. You make a good play or the big hit, you come up in front of your peers when the team's reviewing film and get recognized. Your teammates applaud, you feel good about yourself, you play harder the following week. We're all attention-whores.

But these guys are 'pros' in a violent sport, so you have to raise it to another level in order to motivate them. You have to offer cash, you have to escalate the rhetoric to include, "knockout", "cart-off".

Doesn't make it right, but it might help explain why it happens.

dsrdsrdsr · 03-10-2012, 07:00 PM

I don't quite understand why the original article spends 4 pages on why there's nothing wrong with the bounty system and it's all in the game, and then on page 5 says

"If you’re told you can get paid $2,000 dollars for an interception, that gives you motivation to go out and get that interception."

Doesn't that shoot his entire argument down? Because if it's true of interceptions, it's also true that if you tell a player he can have $2,000 for a game-ending injury, he's more likely to go out and cause that injury.

BGWhoDat · 03-10-2012, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by dsrdsrdsr

I don't quite understand why the original article spends 4 pages on why there's nothing wrong with the bounty system and it's all in the game, and then on page 5 says

"If you’re told you can get paid $2,000 dollars for an interception, that gives you motivation to go out and get that interception."

Doesn't that shoot his entire argument down? Because if it's true of interceptions, it's also true that if you tell a player he can have $2,000 for a game-ending injury, he's more likely to go out and cause that injury.

They were paid for interceptions and big hits, no different than college football with helmet stickers. They've admitted that and there's 0 wrong with it.

If you've read it specifically, you'll also note that I said EVERY NFL player hits with the intent to injure and opponent, make him fumble, rattle him, etc. If the hit is within the rules there's 0 wrong with that also.

Paid or not.

If you're paying someone lets say $2,000 for an unsportsmanlike conduct call, when you blasted a QB well past the play with a helmet to helmet shot, then there's something wrong with it. Then again, as I stated, the NFL would likely slap you with a suspension for games and a $20k fine.

There's ways of "injuring an opponent" within the whistles, which I'm okay with. If you know Adrian Peterson has a bummed knee, wouldn't you want to land every hit you could on that knee as a player? You're damn straight you would. Your coaches would even tell you too.

Why else do you think coaches tell you to hit a QB every chance you can?

The NFL has rules for a reason and as long as you follow those rules, whether you have the intent to injure or not, that's not your problem. You played within the whistles and rules of the NFL.

The only thing the Saints have done wrong is getting "paid for performance" which is against the CBA.

Does that clarify it?

Euphoria · 03-10-2012, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by BGWhoDat

They were paid for interceptions and big hits, no different than college football with helmet stickers. They've admitted that and there's 0 wrong with it.

If you've read it specifically, you'll also note that I said EVERY NFL player hits with the intent to injure and opponent, make him fumble, rattle him, etc. If the hit is within the rules there's 0 wrong with that also.

Paid or not.

If you're paying someone lets say $2,000 for an unsportsmanlike conduct call, when you blasted a QB well past the play with a helmet to helmet shot, then there's something wrong with it. Then again, as I stated, the NFL would likely slap you with a suspension for games and a $20k fine.

There's ways of "injuring an opponent" within the whistles, which I'm okay with. If you know Adrian Peterson has a bummed knee, wouldn't you want to land every hit you could on that knee as a player? You're damn straight you would. Your coaches would even tell you too.

Why else do you think coaches tell you to hit a QB every chance you can?

The NFL has rules for a reason and as long as you follow those rules, whether you have the intent to injure or not, that's not your problem. You played within the whistles and rules of the NFL.

The only thing the Saints have done wrong is getting "paid for performance" which is against the CBA.

Does that clarify it?

Spot on...

I feel like I been banging the drum on this that its not just paid to hurt someone... the rule is that there can't be any paid incentives for performance. You can not have money change hands between players or whoever for INT's, fumbles ANYTHING. Basically NO OFFICE POOLS.

That is what he Saints are guilty of just so happens the words were used to take someone out.

What is funny about this is that EVERY player who has played the game has acknowledge that there was always some sort of incentive for play except
Sharper, Lynch and now Bree's lol.

03-05-2012, 12:57 PM	#11
BIGEASY504 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 487	Originally Posted by SmashMouth What about the Forty Whiners and that hit on Pierre Thomas... was that a bounty hit? Point is every team does it to some degree. This league is soooo shook, the hit on Pierre in the 49ers game was clearly helmet to helmet hit and was not called and when it’s a receiver they get the call, once a player gets the ball in which he’s actually defenseless during the act off catching/securing the ball but once done and the football move is made than he’s a runner. PT got hit in the head and it was not called. These rule are not clear
BIGEASY504 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 487

03-05-2012, 01:11 PM	#12
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	Originally Posted by BGWhoDat I'm going to just make an assumption Williams had no part of the "injury" aspect just of the "big hit" one. He doesn't acknowledge it in his apology, and the NFL cites only Vilma saying he would pay directly for injury. I'm thinking this was a players pool for the injuries. I just watched a good video in this thread posted by Rickh: http://blackandgold.com/saints/41762...oint-view.html ... it really gives a good perspective from some former player's point of view, Mike Golic in particular. As this goes forward, I would just recommend people read your blog & watch this video. It sheds quite a bit of light on the subject. The Saints are gonna' get fined, but they'll be Ok. This too will pass. BGWhoDat likes this.

03-05-2012, 08:31 PM	#13
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	bump. BGWhoDat likes this.

03-09-2012, 06:39 PM	#15
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,515	The one thing that bothers me the most is how much of a head case players are. They make millions in salary yet get all lathered up over a $1,000 bonus? I have an idea for a new league the IBFL incentive based football league. The base pay is $0 you "earn" you money based on how you play. The statement "It isn't about the money" seems to be true. A million a year to play, well ok. What's that? a bonus of $300.00 for a good hit. YAHOO!!!!! now you're talking money!!!!
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,515

03-09-2012, 07:35 PM	#16
BGWhoDat Who Dat Writer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 241	Originally Posted by vpheughan The one thing that bothers me the most is how much of a head case players are. They make millions in salary yet get all lathered up over a $1,000 bonus? I have an idea for a new league the IBFL incentive based football league. The base pay is $0 you "earn" you money based on how you play. The statement "It isn't about the money" seems to be true. A million a year to play, well ok. What's that? a bonus of $300.00 for a good hit. YAHOO!!!!! now you're talking money!!!! I look to it as a 9-5 job. You get paid hourly, but the extra cash in your pocket for a good sale, being top employee of the week etc is extra motivation. Everyone likes a little extra cash even if you're a millionaire. Or else they'd never want another contract. >_<

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03-08-2012, 10:28 PM	#14
BGWhoDat Who Dat Writer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 241	Ty. Bump.

03-10-2012, 05:34 AM	#17
SloMotion 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 6,776 Blog Entries: 15	I don't think they get all 'lathered' up about the payments either, it's been pretty well acknowledged that the average defensive player's mindset is to annihilate their opponent wether they're getting a bonus or not. It's a simple reward/recognition system. In college, it's putting stickers on a helmet for a good play. You make a good play or the big hit, you come up in front of your peers when the team's reviewing film and get recognized. Your teammates applaud, you feel good about yourself, you play harder the following week. We're all attention-whores. But these guys are 'pros' in a violent sport, so you have to raise it to another level in order to motivate them. You have to offer cash, you have to escalate the rhetoric to include, "knockout", "cart-off". Doesn't make it right, but it might help explain why it happens. BGWhoDat likes this.

03-10-2012, 07:00 PM	#18
dsrdsrdsr Registered Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 34	I don't quite understand why the original article spends 4 pages on why there's nothing wrong with the bounty system and it's all in the game, and then on page 5 says "If you’re told you can get paid $2,000 dollars for an interception, that gives you motivation to go out and get that interception." Doesn't that shoot his entire argument down? Because if it's true of interceptions, it's also true that if you tell a player he can have $2,000 for a game-ending injury, he's more likely to go out and cause that injury.
dsrdsrdsr Registered Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 34

03-10-2012, 07:32 PM	#19
BGWhoDat Who Dat Writer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 241	Originally Posted by dsrdsrdsr I don't quite understand why the original article spends 4 pages on why there's nothing wrong with the bounty system and it's all in the game, and then on page 5 says "If you’re told you can get paid $2,000 dollars for an interception, that gives you motivation to go out and get that interception." Doesn't that shoot his entire argument down? Because if it's true of interceptions, it's also true that if you tell a player he can have $2,000 for a game-ending injury, he's more likely to go out and cause that injury. They were paid for interceptions and big hits, no different than college football with helmet stickers. They've admitted that and there's 0 wrong with it. If you've read it specifically, you'll also note that I said EVERY NFL player hits with the intent to injure and opponent, make him fumble, rattle him, etc. If the hit is within the rules there's 0 wrong with that also. Paid or not. If you're paying someone lets say $2,000 for an unsportsmanlike conduct call, when you blasted a QB well past the play with a helmet to helmet shot, then there's something wrong with it. Then again, as I stated, the NFL would likely slap you with a suspension for games and a $20k fine. There's ways of "injuring an opponent" within the whistles, which I'm okay with. If you know Adrian Peterson has a bummed knee, wouldn't you want to land every hit you could on that knee as a player? You're damn straight you would. Your coaches would even tell you too. Why else do you think coaches tell you to hit a QB every chance you can? The NFL has rules for a reason and as long as you follow those rules, whether you have the intent to injure or not, that's not your problem. You played within the whistles and rules of the NFL. The only thing the Saints have done wrong is getting "paid for performance" which is against the CBA. Does that clarify it?
	Twitter: @BGWhoDat Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/bgwhodat Website: http://www.rantsports.com

03-10-2012, 08:42 PM	#20
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by BGWhoDat They were paid for interceptions and big hits, no different than college football with helmet stickers. They've admitted that and there's 0 wrong with it. If you've read it specifically, you'll also note that I said EVERY NFL player hits with the intent to injure and opponent, make him fumble, rattle him, etc. If the hit is within the rules there's 0 wrong with that also. Paid or not. If you're paying someone lets say $2,000 for an unsportsmanlike conduct call, when you blasted a QB well past the play with a helmet to helmet shot, then there's something wrong with it. Then again, as I stated, the NFL would likely slap you with a suspension for games and a $20k fine. There's ways of "injuring an opponent" within the whistles, which I'm okay with. If you know Adrian Peterson has a bummed knee, wouldn't you want to land every hit you could on that knee as a player? You're damn straight you would. Your coaches would even tell you too. Why else do you think coaches tell you to hit a QB every chance you can? The NFL has rules for a reason and as long as you follow those rules, whether you have the intent to injure or not, that's not your problem. You played within the whistles and rules of the NFL. The only thing the Saints have done wrong is getting "paid for performance" which is against the CBA. Does that clarify it? Spot on... I feel like I been banging the drum on this that its not just paid to hurt someone... the rule is that there can't be any paid incentives for performance. You can not have money change hands between players or whoever for INT's, fumbles ANYTHING. Basically NO OFFICE POOLS. That is what he Saints are guilty of just so happens the words were used to take someone out. What is funny about this is that EVERY player who has played the game has acknowledge that there was always some sort of incentive for play except Sharper, Lynch and now Bree's lol. BGWhoDat likes this.
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